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Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#1001: May 21st 2025 at 7:27:42 AM

Few things, first of all, Alduin isn't specifically a nord god. The Khajiit also have him as a god (Alkhan, son of Akha)

Alduin refers to himself as a distinct being from Akatosh, as does Paarthunax

"But I am Al-du-in, Firstborn of Akatosh!"

"Alduin was once the crown of our father Akatosh's creation"

Theres a few text that refer to the Dragons/Alduin as fragments Akatosh shed/lost, which is probably closest to the truth.

[up][up] He isn't. The Voice is actually more associated with Kyne/Kynareth, the goddess of the Storm, or at least she is in Skyrim, where she's considered the chief deity of the pantheon there. She's associated with the wind, sky, and rain, and is, appropriately enough, the favored deity of warriors. The Nords believe that she exhaled onto Tamriel to create the Throat of the World and that she, along with Paarthurnax, taught the Voice to Man.

Shouts used by humans seem to at least predate this, as Atmoran Dragon Priests used them. And they predate the uprising against Alduin.

Edited by Ghilz on May 21st 2025 at 10:33:12 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#1002: May 21st 2025 at 7:31:58 AM

if they ever make a elder scrolls after skyrim title I wonder if they'll reference the dragonborn's Paarthunax choice

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#1003: May 21st 2025 at 7:33:20 AM

Sometimes the lore makes things a bit more complex than they actually are. (Shout out to Trinimac-Arkay-Orkey-Malacath plus a bunch more)

Resileafs I actually wanted to be Resileaf Since: Jan, 2019
I actually wanted to be Resileaf
#1004: May 21st 2025 at 7:47:39 AM

"What's that? There can be five endings to Daggerfall? Fuck it, they're all true."

ITNW1989 a from Big Meat, USA Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
a
#1005: May 21st 2025 at 7:58:57 AM

[up][up] I actually like it that way. It gives the setting a pretty realistic view in how local/indigenous religious practices get transformed/absorbed over time, especially when the Imperial practices start getting involved. It's not too dissimilar with how the Roman/Greek pantheon syncretism occurred, complete with deities who didn't exist for one pantheon, like how Zenithar doesn't have an equivalent in the Nordic pantheon, unlike the rest of the gods.

[up][up][up][up] There is also lore in the game that depicts the Atmoran/ancient Nordic worship of animal totems, the dragon being among them. When they eventually converted to theistic worship, the dragon became Alduin, in the same pantheon as Kyne and the rest of the gods. So in Nordic tradition, he's considered an aspect of Akatosh, while in other places he's considered an entirely separate being. Basically, Nordic religion treats Alduin sort of like how Jesus is treated in Christianity, separate but one with God, while in Islam Isa is an important prophet, but is entirely distinct from Allah.

Also, while the Thu'um does predate Kyne teaching it to Man, since this was before the First Empire brought the Divines to Skyrim, the Thu'um still isn't majorly associated with Akatosh. The Nords consider Paarthurnax (and Kyne) to have taught the Thu'um to Man, not Akatosh. Which was actually a problem for the Imperial missionaries, who had a hell of a time trying to convince the Nords that worshiping Akatosh as the prime deity of the pantheon was all perfectly peachy and not at all creepy and fatalistic.

Hitokiri in the streets, daishouri in the sheets.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#1006: May 21st 2025 at 8:02:32 AM

[up][up]When in doubt, Dragon Break.

Edited by M84 on May 21st 2025 at 11:02:40 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#1007: May 21st 2025 at 8:21:02 AM

Granted given the Dragon Cult was an important part of Atmoran(?) culture before Alduin went full domination, it is a little weird that the Nords don't exactly have some positive dragons.

ITNW1989 a from Big Meat, USA Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
a
#1008: May 21st 2025 at 8:37:10 AM

Well, considering that the Dragon Cult went full evil after the migration to Tamriel, it's understandable that the Nords don't exactly have an entirely positive view towards dragons, although Paarthurnax is mentioned by name in the Tablets leading to High Hrothgar.

Hitokiri in the streets, daishouri in the sheets.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#1009: May 21st 2025 at 8:42:11 AM

> When in doubt, Dragon Break.

aka everything happening at once because dragons

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#1010: May 21st 2025 at 8:47:03 AM

Granted given the Dragon Cult was an important part of Atmoran(?) culture before Alduin went full domination, it is a little weird that the Nords don't exactly have some positive dragons.

By Paarthunax's own word, being an asshole is a dragon's innate nature. It's not surprising?

Even the "nice" dragons the Dragonborn can associate with have asterisks next to them. Paarthunax lives in seclusion to fight his own worse nature and admits that even indulging conversation poses a risk of temptation to him (since Dragons don't see a different between a debate and a fight).

Odahviing mostly respects that you've wooped his ass and sort of just vibes to show up and get into fights alongside you. More of a Blood Knight than someone "nice" who cronies for whoever is the mightiest.

Durnehviir is mostly just dependent on you for leaving the Soul Cairne for minutes at a time and enjoy a fragment of his former existence, and by his own word the entire reason he's in this predicament is his own thirst for power.

There's no positive dragon because their very nature is to be tyrannical, crave power and control and see mortal races as beneath them (And probably ought to tell you something about Akatosh?). Only one of them fought off those urges and doing so requires him to live as an hermit, in constant deprivation and seclusion less temptation come.

Edited by Ghilz on May 21st 2025 at 11:51:19 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#1011: May 21st 2025 at 8:51:52 AM

Dragons are inherently driven to conquest and domination. The Dragonborn is no exception to this. And don’t forget that Tiber Septim was Dragonborn too. Small wonder he’d go overboard with Numidium.

Dragon Cults are effectively worshipers of conquest itself.

Edited by M84 on May 21st 2025 at 11:53:04 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#1012: May 21st 2025 at 11:29:16 AM

sounds like Dragon Cultists would like Mehrunes Dagon.

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
Ookamikun This is going to be so much fun. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
This is going to be so much fun.
#1013: May 21st 2025 at 4:22:14 PM

Which is ironic given the history of Nords.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#1014: May 21st 2025 at 4:25:25 PM

[up][up]Not really. They respect conquest, not destruction. They want Dragons — and themselves — to rule.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Avenger09 Since: May, 2014
blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#1016: May 22nd 2025 at 5:49:39 AM

Sorry, i meant molag Bal. I keep getting their names backwards

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#1017: May 22nd 2025 at 6:00:40 AM

Molag Bal also covers some nastier stuff that even the monstrous Dragon Priests would have considered beyond the pale.

Only the absolute worst worship Molag Bal of their own volition.

Edited by M84 on May 22nd 2025 at 9:02:40 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#1018: May 22nd 2025 at 6:20:07 AM

Only the absolute worst worship Molag Bal of their own volition.

And the people of the Reach.

king15 Have Faun Since: Mar, 2024
Have Faun
#1019: May 22nd 2025 at 6:37:24 AM

I'm not sure they worship him in any sort of reverent sense, it's probably more of a 'worship him to keep him at bay'.

Bal is by far the worse Daedric prince, which is certainly saying something. The best would probably be Azura, which also speaks volumes.

Resileafs I actually wanted to be Resileaf Since: Jan, 2019
I actually wanted to be Resileaf
#1020: May 22nd 2025 at 6:43:32 AM

Hmm, I'd argue Nocturnal is probably the best, because she very much just keeps to herself. Whenever she takes action against mortals, it's because they're thieves who tried to get one over her.

Like seriously, why do thieves keep stealing from her? It's like they want to be struck by an ironic curse.

king15 Have Faun Since: Mar, 2024
Have Faun
#1021: May 22nd 2025 at 6:54:45 AM

Nocturnal's pretty bad in The Elder Scrolls Online. Azura, meanwhile, though far from perfect, is probably the Prince with the best track record. Probably the worse she did was turn the Dunmer grey after Nerevar's murder, which is certainly bad but, compared to other princes, is far from the worst.

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#1022: May 22nd 2025 at 6:58:33 AM

I'm not sure they worship him in any sort of reverent sense, it's probably more of a 'worship him to keep him at bay'.

Bal is by far the worse Daedric prince, which is certainly saying something. The best would probably be Azura, which also speaks volumes.

They do. At least some of them worship him as the spirit of hardship who makes men endure.

He has a verse in "Hail to the Ancient Spirits"

Hail Molag Bal, the Prince of Pain
Brutal master, lord of troubles
Giver of strength to slay and strive
For men are meant to struggle

(The song refers to the princes in the book as teachers, testers and givers of lessons)

To quote UESP

Molag Bal is venerated by some Reachman clans. The people of the Reach recognize the Lord of Lies as a schemer who enjoys his tricks. Known as the Father of Torment, the Defiler and He Who Schemes in the Shadows, Molag Bal is a spirit that represents hardship.[D 11] He's somewhat of a testing god, acknowledged as a spirit who brings trouble, and in doing so, he teaches the people of the Reach to endure.[QD 19]

The Reachfolk understand that hardship is inevitable, but instead of bemoaning their sorrows, they embrace the pain as wisdom.[D 11] They look up to those who work hard,[D 12] and believe those that are plagued by troubled times are strengthened by their experiences. Molag Bal grants nothing but unexpected pain. Those of the Reach who venerate Molag Bal appreciate the lessons he teaches, growing resilient in his shadow.[D 11]

The Cinder-Heart Clan reveres the Defiler,[16] and their practices reflect the extreme horrors Molag Bal's sphere represents. They are known for their cruel treatment of captives, whom they burn alive. Their briarheart ritual is augmented with the intense pain of opening a subject's chest cavity and filling it with hot coals.[BK 46]

Reachmen are sometimes referred to as the Witchmen of High Rock, a name that stems from their use of dark "Reach-magic".[BK 47] Although Hircine is believed to be the source of the dark nature magic used by Reach hedge wizards,[17] Molag Bal can grant similar power. The name "gravesinger" is worn by some Reachman necromancers who broker deals with Bal[QD 20] in exchange for the power to command the loathsome dead.[BK 48] These gravesingers can command corpses by planting the seeds of foul vines in their victims' bodies. Molag Bal's "gifts" may leave a gravesinger's body in a state of decay.[D 13]

Resileafs I actually wanted to be Resileaf Since: Jan, 2019
I actually wanted to be Resileaf
#1023: May 22nd 2025 at 6:59:30 AM

[up][up]I mean, she also orchestrated the fall of the Tribunal and the eventual destruction of Vvanderfell by way of meteor-into-volcano-eruption.

Though in all fairness, Vivec was a dick for leaving it in the sky in the first place.

Edited by Resileafs on May 22nd 2025 at 9:59:50 AM

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#1024: May 22nd 2025 at 7:00:56 AM

I mean, she also orchestrated the fall of the Tribunal and the eventual destruction of Vvanderfell by way of meteor-into-volcano-eruption.

The Meteor (Moon really) is technically Sheogorath's doing.

king15 Have Faun Since: Mar, 2024
Have Faun
#1025: May 22nd 2025 at 7:01:14 AM

[up][up]The alternative was Dagoth Ur's plan succeeding, which would have been 10x worse.

[up]Though Vivec chose to leave it up there and Azura's resurrection of Nerevar led to it falling.

Edited by king15 on May 22nd 2025 at 2:01:50 PM


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