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Justice4243 Writer of horse words from Portland, OR, USA Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: Brony
Writer of horse words
#226: May 16th 2011 at 9:42:18 PM

Creativity is a non-theistic, ethnocentric religion founded in 1973 by Ben Klassen with the publication of the book Nature's Eternal Religion and was later expounded upon in the books The White Man's Bible, and Salubrious Living. Creativity is known for being "antisemitic, racist and...anti-Christian."
Well… at least someone is making an effort to show you don’t need to twist the words of a higher power to be a jerk…
Their Golden Rule essentially is, what is good for the White Race is Good, and what is bad for the White Race is Bad… Doing what is bad for the White Race is viewed as treason, and the religion teaches that there are two options for White people: loyalty or treason, there is no middle ground.
Hey, they didn’t say “blue eyed, blonde whites”! So there’s some diversity there.
Nature's Eternal Religion is the founding text of Creativity ... The first chapter discusses nature, and "nature's laws" including the teaching that nature divides species up into different sub-species and that it is not the plan of nature to have one species but many as nature is "diverse".The second chapter states that the White race is nature's finest and noblest creation.
Ok…I’m getting some mixed signals here…
The first book goes on to critique Christianity, including the Christian Bible…The second book in Nature's Eternal Religion explains the religion of Creativity. It has a chapter entitled "Sixteen Commandments" which includes the basic idea to be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth with White people.

Justice is a joy to the godly, but it terrifies evildoers.Proverbs21:15 FimFiction account.
Justice4243 Writer of horse words from Portland, OR, USA Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: Brony
Writer of horse words
#227: May 17th 2011 at 9:59:46 AM

So, forgive me if this has been covered in the thread before but I noticed there was some discussion of pagan as “catch-all, possibly derogatory name for non-Abrahamic religions” to “Easy label to fit my beliefs alongside similar religions.”

I was wondering if people tend to self-identify as a pagan, or if not, what do they self-identify as (Wiccan, Odinist(?) Druid, etc…)?

We’ve discussed paganism generally being applied to “western” religions that aren’t Abrahamic? Does anyone believe this is an important distinction from eastern religions? Do the religions of the Native Americans (both north and south) stand outside or inside this label? What about the religions of Africa? Or do you believe your faith is of a more personal nature and aren’t really concerned with labels?

edited 17th May '11 10:00:09 AM by Justice4243

Justice is a joy to the godly, but it terrifies evildoers.Proverbs21:15 FimFiction account.
randomguy123 Misanthropic Wiccan Nerd Since: Sep, 2010
Misanthropic Wiccan Nerd
#228: May 17th 2011 at 10:21:13 AM

The definition is a bit difficult to pin down. Basicially, Pagan seems to be a catch-all term for anything that isn't Christianity, Islam or Judaism (and in the past it was even applied to the latter two of that trio, in some cases). I think it's better to be a bit more specific if possible- for example, I consider myself Wiccan rather than Pagan.

I don't like labels all that much, but due to the nature of the human though process it is impossible to avoid them. I try to be specific with the ones I apply to myself.

edited 17th May '11 10:23:18 AM by randomguy123

Misanthrope Supreme
Karalora Since: Jan, 2001
#229: May 17th 2011 at 1:43:08 PM

I consider myself a Pagan and a Witch, but not a Wiccan. As for non-European polytheisms, while they may fit the dictionary definition of Paganism well enough, I don't consider it my place as a white person to tell non-whites that their native faiths are related to mine.

Diamonnes In Riastrad from Ulster Since: Nov, 2009
In Riastrad
#230: May 17th 2011 at 1:48:47 PM

Like everyone said, Pagan is a catch-all. My personal definition of a pagan faith says they tend to include nature-reverence, magic, and (sometimes) spirits that aren't gods.

If a person considers his or her self a pagan, so let it be.

I myself do identify as pagan, because I'm sort of an eclectic pagan, kinda.*

Another label I tend to apply to pagan faiths is "anything Christianity hates" but I really shouldn't do that. :/

My name is Cu Chulainn. Beside the raging sea I am left to moan. Sorrow I am, for I brought down my only son.
randomguy123 Misanthropic Wiccan Nerd Since: Sep, 2010
Misanthropic Wiccan Nerd
#231: May 17th 2011 at 2:51:26 PM

"Anything christianity hates" is too broad even if you restrict it to religions. There are a lot of rival subsets of christianity that hate each other, you know. So yeah, try to avoid thinking of it that way.

Misanthrope Supreme
Karalora Since: Jan, 2001
#232: May 17th 2011 at 2:55:14 PM

No, you shouldn't, not least because "Christianity" doesn't hate anything. Certain Christians may hate various non-Christian faiths, but even there, there's not much agreement as to how far the umbrella extends. And I think most mainstream Christians try to avoid hating.

Diamonnes In Riastrad from Ulster Since: Nov, 2009
In Riastrad
#233: May 17th 2011 at 4:26:19 PM

Which is precisely why I'm trying to get past that particular grudge.

My name is Cu Chulainn. Beside the raging sea I am left to moan. Sorrow I am, for I brought down my only son.
OrangeSpider Must Keep The Web Intact from Ursalia Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: On the prowl
Must Keep The Web Intact
#234: May 21st 2011 at 5:54:57 PM

Mhhh. I mostly use Paganism as a term that defines the old European religions. But I sometime also use it in a broader sense that basically includes any and all polytheistic religion.

So basically, they all are Pagans to me until I find out how they call their religion themselves.

The Great Northern Threadkill.
Mamanerd Future Crazy Cat Lady from SPACE....I'm in space Since: Aug, 2010
#235: May 29th 2011 at 8:42:03 AM

This sounds like what I've been wondering about lately- I identify as Wiccan but haven't found a local group or coven that meets regularly, and it's kind of lonely right now. It seems like most Wiccans in the area are solitary practitioners (though there are often open circles held at Sabbats and such)... I've found great spiritual comfort in my solitary practice, but I would also love the comraderie of a coven- but I would also get irritated if somebody were to say "you're not a Wiccan unless you're in a coven" or similiar. What a bizarre little pickle- eh well, maybe the group of my dreams will pop up on the Witch's Voice postings one day. In the meantime, the Divine Forces aren't fussing over technicalities, so I'll try not to either.

...And, er, hello by the way. smile Been off the Internets for a while, pleasantly surprised to see this group now that I'm back. (Hey, I'm in a "coven" now tongue)

"An empty stomach is not a good political advisor" - Albert Einstein Anime list
Diamonnes In Riastrad from Ulster Since: Nov, 2009
In Riastrad
#236: May 29th 2011 at 3:08:21 PM

Mamanerd: -Hugs- You are the first one to notice that pun besides me!

Welcome back to the intertube as it were.

Also, I agree that the whole "You aren't a REAL Wiccan if you aren't in a coven" tripe is nonsense. How would any mortal know what the gods consider legit or not?

NOTE: Not a Wiccan here, but I first "came out" as it were to a Wiccan man, and we spoke about spirituality quite a bit. Wiccan influences are still pretty strong on my end.

My name is Cu Chulainn. Beside the raging sea I am left to moan. Sorrow I am, for I brought down my only son.
InverurieJones '80s TV Action Hero from North of the Wall. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
'80s TV Action Hero
#237: May 30th 2011 at 1:22:41 AM

[up] "How would any mortal know what the gods consider legit or not? "

Um...by asking them? Just a thought, but why do so few people ever actually try that?

edited 30th May '11 1:23:36 AM by InverurieJones

'All he needs is for somebody to throw handgrenades at him for the rest of his life...'
randomguy123 Misanthropic Wiccan Nerd Since: Sep, 2010
Misanthropic Wiccan Nerd
#238: May 30th 2011 at 8:23:54 AM

I for one almost never ask the god and goddess questions because I can never understand their answers. The most direct answers I ever got from them were a heart shaped potato and running straight into a yield sign. Thankfully my teacher CAN understand the goddess, so I just ask her to ask questions for me.

Misanthrope Supreme
Karalora Since: Jan, 2001
#239: May 30th 2011 at 8:51:55 AM

The gods will only ever tell you whether you are legitimate...not whether anyone else is. And you really shouldn't have to ask whether you are legitimate to begin with.

Diamonnes In Riastrad from Ulster Since: Nov, 2009
In Riastrad
#240: May 30th 2011 at 6:02:59 PM

[up][up][up] Basically what Kara said. In my experience, the gods are... not keen on direct answers. Learning the answer to any question you ask typically has to be a deeply personal thing you learn a valuable lesson from.

There's also the thing that a lot of Coveners tend to get a mentality similar to Church-going Christians; "I don't need to figure this out because my leader/peers/etc. will tell me."

Companionship is fantastic, but ultimately your spirituality has to be your own.

edited 30th May '11 6:03:44 PM by Diamonnes

My name is Cu Chulainn. Beside the raging sea I am left to moan. Sorrow I am, for I brought down my only son.
Sharysa Since: Jan, 2001
#241: May 31st 2011 at 3:45:49 PM

Seconding the "no direct answers/answers are going to be very personal and specific to you" thing. Especially if the deity you follow is a renowned chessmaster.

Diamonnes In Riastrad from Ulster Since: Nov, 2009
In Riastrad
#242: May 31st 2011 at 4:25:34 PM

Shary: For following the Morrigan, you automatically get about ten times the badass points of anyone else... at the cost of, you know, following the most renowned and feared prophet of the Tuatha. Divine xanatos gambits abound. :P [lol]

My name is Cu Chulainn. Beside the raging sea I am left to moan. Sorrow I am, for I brought down my only son.
Sharysa Since: Jan, 2001
#243: May 31st 2011 at 8:33:44 PM

It's really not that fun because I am now paranoid at every major event that happens.

THERE ARE NO MORE COINCIDENCES FOR ME.

edited 31st May '11 8:34:22 PM by Sharysa

randomguy123 Misanthropic Wiccan Nerd Since: Sep, 2010
Misanthropic Wiccan Nerd
#244: May 31st 2011 at 8:36:17 PM

Yes, that's a very common thing to feel upon gaining/changing your spiritual beliefs. Everything has a special purpose or a secret meaning, or is a message from above. When you believe in a higher power it isn't easy to believe that sh*t just happens at random sometimes.

edited 31st May '11 8:37:04 PM by randomguy123

Misanthrope Supreme
Sharysa Since: Jan, 2001
#245: May 31st 2011 at 8:59:21 PM

And now imagine how much that feeling intensifies when your patron's entire schtick is a chessmaster.

Although I do like how following a war goddess meshes unexpectedly well with being an actor/writer/singer.

Diamonnes In Riastrad from Ulster Since: Nov, 2009
In Riastrad
#246: May 31st 2011 at 11:25:37 PM

Randomguy: There's a difference between a random deity and the goddamn Morrigan.

I'd probably be a follower of said goddess, at least in part, except I determined a long time ago that no way in hell would I put myself through that pants-shitting terror. tongue

My name is Cu Chulainn. Beside the raging sea I am left to moan. Sorrow I am, for I brought down my only son.
randomguy123 Misanthropic Wiccan Nerd Since: Sep, 2010
Misanthropic Wiccan Nerd
#247: Jun 1st 2011 at 9:59:05 AM

Evidently I need to do some reading about morrigan.

Misanthrope Supreme
Sharysa Since: Jan, 2001
#248: Jun 1st 2011 at 11:29:06 AM

The Celtic Mythology page, informal though it be, is a pretty good starting point.

randomguy123 Misanthropic Wiccan Nerd Since: Sep, 2010
Misanthropic Wiccan Nerd
#249: Jun 1st 2011 at 1:35:47 PM

She sounds like fun! : )

Misanthrope Supreme
Sharysa Since: Jan, 2001
#250: Jun 1st 2011 at 3:09:21 PM

@ Dia: See, the problem with being termed a follower is that most people assume I chose to follow her.

I didn't.

edited 1st Jun '11 3:10:41 PM by Sharysa


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