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betaalpha betaalpha from England Since: Jan, 2001
betaalpha
#3951: Apr 8th 2011 at 12:08:51 AM

The rebels and the coalition seem to think they can win this without coalition troops (up to now the latter have only considered the option, not clamoured for it). If the new government can continue to generate money (they don't need that much 'cos goodwill creates discounts and provides volunteers) and retain the world's sympathy while Gaddafi continues to lose money without generating more, then that's likely to happen. When Daffy's money runs out so will the mercenaries.

The cars on each side can already be marked differently-just by using the old Libyan flag or not. Any alternative markings will suffer from the same problems as the flag will-Gadd's troops can imitate it (though they risk getting shot by their own side) and some isolated rebel groups may not know what the new design is. Comstantly updating the markings will only exacerbate the latter problem and I think it's inevitable that Gadd's troops will learn any new designs in minutes of them being communicated to the rebels.

MayuZane I made my own avatar from SPACE Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
I made my own avatar
#3952: Apr 8th 2011 at 1:56:46 AM

The problem is, Gaddafi is known to have a large gold reserve in Libya, and he's been paying a lot of the low-level mercs with fake money anyway, taking advantage of their illiteracy by xeroxing the same note (all exact same serial numbers) over and over again. He has the means to make this conflict last months, if not years.

However, the rebels are getting outside support now, with weapons from Qatar, food and medical aid from other nations, and Western powers are discussing supplying the rebels with non-lethal equipment such as GPS, radios, unarmed armored cars and so on. Plus, there are discussions in the US and UK about how to use seized Gaddafi assets overseas to provide aid for the rebels.

Tripoli is the real key here. While the journalists at Rixos hotel have been kept from going into any place the Gaddafi regime does not want them to go, there are several reports from Arab media with contacts in Tripoli saying that attacks on Gaddafi's security forces have been more and more frequent, with sporadic gun battles every few nights. Libyan tweeters have been reporting about mass arrests and combat between Gaddafi's troops and groups of rebels fighting at night in Tripoli. The only reason this hasn't been reported in most news media is because their correspondents are trapped in Rixos, and are unable to confirm the news themselves, although they have heard several gunshots from there which the Gaddafi regime keeps claiming to be celebratory.

The rebels in Tripoli have got to find a way to break into Rixos or the State Media TV station; if they manage to accomplish that, it would at least be a huge symbolic victory. Eman Al-Obeidi has already proven that Gaddafi's security forces are not omnipresent, and more and more people in Tripoli are becoming increasingly aware of that.

Or perhaps all those reports I've read and heard dissent in Tripoli is all TNC propaganda and none of it's ever happened. I am quite aware of that possibility.

edited 8th Apr '11 2:11:13 AM by MayuZane

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JosefBugman Since: Nov, 2009
#3953: Apr 8th 2011 at 2:37:28 AM

Mercs tend to get pissed when a fight does not end quickly and profitably. Its why Machiavelli thinks they suck, because they don't have a reason to fight to the death, or to engage in anything that is risky if it doesn't get them more money.

pagad Sneering Imperialist from perfidious Albion Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Sneering Imperialist
#3954: Apr 8th 2011 at 3:27:17 AM

NATO refuses to apologise after mistakenly targeting rebel tanks

With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.
BaleFire Since: Dec, 2009
#3955: Apr 8th 2011 at 3:35:13 AM

Why do I get the feeling that Nato are going to stuff everything up? First we hear about their long reaction times, and now they're apparently bombing the wrong side.

Not that we've seen anything terrible yet, but I'm expecting worse.

edited 8th Apr '11 3:35:48 AM by BaleFire

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GameChainsaw The Shadows Devour You. from sunshine and rainbows! Since: Oct, 2010
The Shadows Devour You.
#3956: Apr 8th 2011 at 4:20:05 AM

Who is in overall command of NAT Os forces? You can't run a war via commitee, or with half-hearted participants.

The term "Great Man" is disturbingly interchangeable with "mass murderer" in history books.
BestOf FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC! from Finland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
#3957: Apr 8th 2011 at 4:30:28 AM

Here you go. The commanders are in the box on the top-right corner.

The article also includes a list of the forces that each participating country has provided. As you see, there's enough firepower to do the job even though the US left.

edited 8th Apr '11 4:33:19 AM by BestOf

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
NickTheSwing Since: Aug, 2009
#3958: Apr 8th 2011 at 4:37:58 AM

They are just there, or so I heard, to enforce that nobody targeted civilians, not to win a war. Nobody wants a damn war.

MayuZane I made my own avatar from SPACE Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
I made my own avatar
#3959: Apr 8th 2011 at 4:38:22 AM

UNICEF, the UN’s children’s agency, claims snipers are targeting children in besieged Misrata. A spokeswoman said: ”[We have received] reliable and consistent reports of children being among the people targeted by snipers in Misrata.” About time they noticed.

Also related to Misrata: A Red Cross-chartered humanitarian vessel is expected to arrive in the city of Misrata within 24 hours, the humanitarian agency said on Friday.

Lastly, Sky News reports that Gaddafi’s forces are using hay to camouflage heavy weapons being carried in pickup trucks. Damn, looks like they took lessons from Assassins Creed

edited 8th Apr '11 4:40:47 AM by MayuZane

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BestOf FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC! from Finland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
#3960: Apr 8th 2011 at 4:45:20 AM

They are just there, or so I heard, to enforce that nobody targeted civilians, not to win a war. Nobody wants a damn war.

This is a war. But NATO isn't supposed to be on either side, though in reality they do support the rebels with everything they can without fucking the resolution to oblivion.

So for the most part they're doing their best to protect civilians. The greatest threat to civilians are Gaddafi's forces, so NATO is targeting them. Helping the rebels is officially a side-effect.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#3961: Apr 8th 2011 at 4:48:01 AM

I think UNICEF suspected that for a while, but was waiting for solid proof to be gained before announcing anything.

And who wants to bet that Gaddafi's men had to be taught that hay trick by those Belarusian mercenaries?

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Kino Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Californicating
#3962: Apr 8th 2011 at 5:47:08 AM

@JB: Mercenaries are and always will be useful; it's up to the person contracting their services to apply them properly.

MayuZane I made my own avatar from SPACE Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
I made my own avatar
#3963: Apr 8th 2011 at 5:53:48 AM

Robert Gates, the US Defense Secretary, said:

“What has made Libya unique is first of all a request, which is unprecedented in my experience, of the Arab League actually asking for an intervention in the Middle East, to take on an Arab government mistreating its own people. It’s hard for me to imagine those kinds of circumstances being replicated any place else.”

EDIT:

Journalist Karl Stagno-Navarra reports that Russian journalists have been kidnapped (possibly by Gaddafi forces) in Libya.

edited 8th Apr '11 7:14:49 AM by MayuZane

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GlennMagusHarvey Since: Jan, 2001
#3964: Apr 8th 2011 at 9:05:12 AM

Y halo thar Vladimir Putin. Wanna help out your own fellow Russians this time?

Colonial1.1 Purveyor of Obscurity from The Marvelous River City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Purveyor of Obscurity
#3965: Apr 8th 2011 at 9:08:40 AM

Oh boy...

Maybe the Bear will get angry at the right target this time?

"He could not know it. For it was not all a joke."
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#3966: Apr 8th 2011 at 9:11:33 AM

And I thought Gaddafi couldn't get any stupider. -_-; They set a few reporters free last week because "they're Americans", but now they kidnap Russian journalists?!

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Colonial1.1 Purveyor of Obscurity from The Marvelous River City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Purveyor of Obscurity
#3967: Apr 8th 2011 at 9:23:20 AM

Spetsnaz time?

"He could not know it. For it was not all a joke."
Kino Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Californicating
MayuZane I made my own avatar from SPACE Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
I made my own avatar
#3969: Apr 8th 2011 at 9:55:54 AM

Time to put on your tinfoil hats people, it's WMG time.

Okay, so a lot of Libyans on the net are talking about people in Tripoli saying that Muammar Gaddafi is either dead or very physically ill, and Saif has basically become the new leader for the Gaddafi loyalists while keeping Muammar's condition under wraps. There have been letters allegedly sent to Obama by Muammar Gaddafi, yes, but there's no way to prove he actually wrote them. No phone call rants, no new speeches, no appearance at the Rixos hotel, nothing.

News sources, like the Huffington Post, report that former US congressman Curt Weldon has left Libya after failing to meet privately with Muammar Gaddafi. He said “I am disappointed that I did not get to sit down face to face with Col. Qadaffi as promised.” Weldon said that Libyan Prime Minister Baghdadi Mamoudi gave him a sealed private letter to be hand-delivered to Clinton, which Weldon plans to do upon his return. (God I hope it doesn't have poison or something like that in it)

Where has Muammar Gaddafi gone? Is he really hiding in his bunker? Has he left for an African country down south? Is he really dead and told his son to take up his sword? There is endless speculation, and the fact that no one has actually seen M. Gaddafi show up in public or on TV is just fueling more speculation.

Several people in and out of Libya have challenged Gaddafi to show himself, along with his son Khamis, rumored to be dead after an attack on Bab Al Aziziyah. Neither have shown up at all. I personally believe he has simply run away and won't reveal himself until he thinks he's safe enough.

/WMG

EDIT:

Oh yeah, and an insider source claims that the US is threatening to take over the operation again if NATO doesn't start doing better. Will wait and see if this comes true. The TNC would certainly welcome it, given NATO's numerous blunders. They were NOT, for example, aware that the rebels had tanks, which is something even tweeters know already. Plus, Gen. Abdul Fattah Al-Younis has already relayed info about several Gaddafi troop and artillery positions attacking civilian areas, and yet NATO didn't do anything.

It's a freaking mystery right here. It's as if NATO's intel is just full of people ignoring reports from the rebels and throwing darts at a map.

edited 8th Apr '11 10:19:14 AM by MayuZane

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Kino Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Californicating
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#3971: Apr 8th 2011 at 10:26:12 AM

Have NATO members decided who is going to actually lead the operations? I remember France, Britain, and Italy were arguing about it early on, but news channels don't seem to mention that anymore.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
MayuZane I made my own avatar from SPACE Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
I made my own avatar
#3972: Apr 8th 2011 at 10:41:28 AM

Marq FJA: Apparently not, which would explain a lot of things.

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MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#3973: Apr 8th 2011 at 11:27:03 AM

Epic Fail, much? IMO, they should just give the leadership to the country of the current official "head" of the NATO organization - I think that would be the current supreme military commander of NATO forces, right?

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#3975: Apr 8th 2011 at 12:47:31 PM

Just once can America not have to be involved?


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