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TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#76: Jun 1st 2012 at 11:33:57 AM

It's a totes boss game-easily the best in the series. The ES mechanics are actually fun too, unlike in the second game (though the second game's mechanics were just ... ugh)

ccoa Ravenous Sophovore from the Sleeping Giant Since: Jan, 2001
Ravenous Sophovore
#77: Jun 1st 2012 at 1:08:31 PM

It's certainly the best story and gameplay-wise, but it was very disappointing that they decided to use static 3D models having portrait-based conversations at each other in place of cutscenes with in-game graphics.

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#78: Jun 1st 2012 at 1:13:34 PM

I vastly disagree. The amount of leverage they got from doing that allowed you to set your own pace for the dialogue, and allowed them to have a lot MORE of it. It was a very classic feel, and also made the game run better. I tried XS 2 and XS 3 on my PS 2 emulator, and XS 3 ran LOADS better than XS 2, in no small part because of some of the technical decisions they made regarding the game.

Blissey1 insert title here from a random Pokècenter Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I know
insert title here
#79: Jun 1st 2012 at 1:17:10 PM

it ran better because your emulator didn't want to run the disaster that was episode 2.

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TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#80: Jun 1st 2012 at 1:17:50 PM

<hysterical laughter>

Sure we'll go with that ;P

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#81: Jun 1st 2012 at 1:27:26 PM

I would thoroughly disagree about 3 being the best in terms of gameplay and story. Well, apart from mech battles. 3 was the only game in the trilogy to do those right.

Gameplay is the easiest criticism one can make of 3 when compared to Episode 1. EP 3 is painfully generic in terms of combat and moreover, it's -easy-. I get that people complained about combat being slow in 1 and 2 but the solution was not to make fights last three seconds where you do nothing but hit Attack or cast a spell.

Xenosaga 1 of course used a type of battle system similar to Xenogears and I liked that. Sure, AG Ws were useless but it just felt more interesting to manage Tech Points and all that.

When it comes to story it's a bit more commplicated Episode III certainly has a lot of interesting stuff but it also turned Shion into the most dependent and unlikable bitch ever. The only thing that redeems this is the fact the developers were apparently self-aware enough to know that people would hate Shion, hence the fight with her.

i think Episode 3 was in such a rush to tie up loose-ends however that it didn't really answer a lot of the questiosn in a satisfying manner. U-Do for example is pretty much a total retcon from everything we had heard about him since Episode 1. In fact a lot of things from Episode 1 end up being forgotten by Episode 3.

Granted a lot of this is the fault of Episode 2 and hwo much it sucked. Nevertheless Xenosaga Episode 1 remains the purest vision of Tetsuya Takahashi and thus I like it the most, just like I love Xenogears the most of all his games.

I also think the dialogue boxes in Episode 3 were a hindrance at times. You can clearly hear the break in the voice-actors' delivery so it sounds like they recorded a sentence at one time and then came back to finish the second half of it. Jr.'s VA in particular was very disappointing in 3 and I for one missed the original MOMO. (although the new one got much better. She was unbearable in 2)

I liked how cinematic Episode 1 was. It's why I can pop in my DVD of the game and feel like I'm enjoying a nifty anime. (ironically the actual anime was much worse at being an anime than the game)

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#82: Jun 1st 2012 at 1:34:15 PM

Xenosaga 3 learned "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

XS 1 had really annoying points for unlocking everything, and XS 2's combat was stale and took too long. Xenosaga 3 may have been a bit too easy, but no one's playing Xenosaga for the challenging gameplay-though I did try running a super low level run of the first game that was balls to the wall hard.

Incidentally, I've played the Undubs for XS 2 and 3, but not for Xenosaga 1, so I can't really comment on how the cinematic elements of the first game play out-and I don't much care how the dubs play because I don't much care for dubs in general.

If nothing else, Xenosaga 3 wins by virtue of having Hikaru Midori-mothafuckin-kawa in it.

edited 1st Jun '12 1:35:54 PM by TheyCallMeTomu

TheGunheart Some nights I rule the world (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Some nights I rule the world
#83: Jun 1st 2012 at 1:47:30 PM

It's odd, but despite the flaws, I think 2's actually my favorite of the trilogy. The third definitely outclasses it in terms of gameplay and character design, but Jr.'s arc was easily my favorite part of the whole story, and this game gave it the most focus. The prologue, with Asher launching to the tune of the XS 2 main theme and the fight between Jin and Margulis to the tune of "Fatal Fight" (loved how they brought it back as a boss theme in 3) was easily one of my favorite game openings of all time, at least.

lu127 Paper Master from 異界 Since: Sep, 2011 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#84: Jun 1st 2012 at 1:48:57 PM

Episode 1 had awful, awful graphics and artwork. It just looked alien and bizarre. Especially the eyes. They give shojo manga a run for their money. The cinematics were unimpressive.

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
ccoa Ravenous Sophovore from the Sleeping Giant Since: Jan, 2001
Ravenous Sophovore
#86: Jun 1st 2012 at 1:52:08 PM

While I did miss the combination attacks from I, III did a better job balancing everything. In III, there weren't nearly as many useless abilities. I also liked the skill progression trees a lot more than those in I, which were very linear, and II, which gave everyone access to the same abilities.

The gameplay in II had a lot of innovative elements, but it quickly became tedious in non-boss battles. Tedious is not something you want from gameplay.

As to Shion, I was completely neutral to her as a character for the entire series, and didn't find her any more or less likeable in I or III.

Nothing about U-DO was retconned in III. There is nothing we learn of him that contradicts what we knew, we just find out that there was more going on than people were telling you and/or understood themselves.

@Tomu: Personally, I don't think "it runs better on an entirely unintended platform" should ever be used as a pro or con against a game. All three games run fine on their intended platform. They were never intended to run on a PC, and shouldn't be judged by their performance on one.

I found the non-animated cutscenes to be far less immersive, which negatively effected my enjoyment of the story. It's a shame, because IMO III had the best graphics and costume designs in the series, but I felt like they were mostly squandered.

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#87: Jun 1st 2012 at 1:53:57 PM

You remember disc 2 of Xenogears?

That woulda happened had they had to render all those dialogue scenes fully :P

In short, it allowed them to do a heck of a lot more.

edited 1st Jun '12 1:54:33 PM by TheyCallMeTomu

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#88: Jun 1st 2012 at 5:10:55 PM

"Nothing about U-DO was retconned in III. There is nothing we learn of him that contradicts what we knew, we just find out that there was more going on than people were telling you and/or understood themselves. "

Nephilim: He [U-DO] feeds upon the consciousness of those who intend to awaken him, as well as those who wish to seek him…

[when you encounter the eerie, contaminated Labrynthos]

Shion: No. No, it doesn't feel like that. This is more like...like some sort of consciousness is at work here.

Jr.: It's U-DO. Its presence has spread this far out.

What we are told about U-DO is that is a phenomenally powerful cosmic parasite, desperately clawing at our world.

-Nothing- we are told about U-DO matches up at all with what we see in Episode 3 and that's precisely because 3 is not Takahashi's work proper.

Also in all my years in the Xenosaga fandom no one has ever been able to address why KOS-MOS would potentially fight U-DO either. The obvious answer, from Episode 1 anyway, was that U-DO needs to be stopped. Yet from what the story became in 3, there really is no justification for it or that whole potential future thing Nephilim shows the party.

And EP 1's graphics were good for the time. What's more, I really liked the character design. I prefer an Elly-inspired heroine over a prostitute.

Oh Shion, what did they do to you?

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#89: Jun 1st 2012 at 5:15:37 PM

I definitely preferred the concept model for Shion in XS 1 but the actual character animations were kind of off-putting.

I have no idea why the fuck they had Allen break Shion's glasses, or why she started dressing provocatively. That didn't really seem in character at all -_-;

Then again, in XS 3, I always have her use the Vector Uniform anyway <3

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#90: Jun 1st 2012 at 5:23:16 PM

They barely even look like the same character game-to-game. it's very off-putting.

As for why she started to dress like that, I've been told the EP 3 character designer did hentai. So yeah.

Oddly, Shion and MOMO kinda go in opposite directions. Episode 1 Shion was pretty modest and dare I say even somewhat sensible by JRPG standards. Meanwhile MOMO was Ms. Loli Fanservice. Then as the series went on Shion became more whorish while MO Mo was far less....exposed.

And I really don't like that hat. WHAT IS THE POINT OF IT.

And yes I am an Episode 1 fanboy. It was one of the first JRP Gs I played and I love everything about it. My love for it has only intensified due to the fact so many people gush over 3 while denouncing the previous two games. Why would anyone even give a shit about 3 without 1? Episode 1 was the game that established these characters; that made us care about what happened to them. It was 1 that laid the groundwork for the entire setting, lining up mystery after mystery that motivated me to actually play 3 even after 2 disappointed me utterly.

I will say that one design change I approved of was Jin's. His original look was far too cliche and the more Citan-esque look in 3 was a great improvement.

edited 1st Jun '12 5:28:16 PM by Nikkolas

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#91: Jun 1st 2012 at 5:27:31 PM

His XS 1 look had glasses-your argument is invalid!

Actually, his XS 1 look may not have had glasses (for the all of 1/2 of a frame you see him, it's hard to tell), but some original promotional surely shows him wearing some.

edited 1st Jun '12 5:28:02 PM by TheyCallMeTomu

TheGunheart Some nights I rule the world (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Some nights I rule the world
#92: Jun 1st 2012 at 6:08:02 PM

MOMO's hat in 3 was awesome. Out of all the designs in 3, hers and Jin's definitely get "most improved" award.

Oddly enough, while I absolutely love the Badass Longcoat look, I also have to say I like Jr.'s "3" costume the best, mostly because for once, the colors actually looked right. In retrospect, chaos' "3" costume was his best as well.

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#93: Jun 1st 2012 at 6:23:14 PM

Perfect Chaos-oh wait, it was called "Flawless"-was definitely a good look for him.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#94: Jun 1st 2012 at 6:26:42 PM

I know a lot people hated his Episode 1 look. Now me, I have bad eyesight so maybe I missed it, but apparently you can totally see an unfortunate bulge through his choice of clothing.

And an audio-related note though, I don't know why everyone hated his Episode 1 dub voice. Episode 1 in general had the best English voice-acting of the 3. (IMO anyway....) Everyone really brought their A-game, even supporting characters like Juli. She had the most awesome Ice Queen voice.

edited 1st Jun '12 6:27:51 PM by Nikkolas

TheGunheart Some nights I rule the world (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Some nights I rule the world
#95: Jun 1st 2012 at 6:30:30 PM

It's not so much that his voice in 1 was bad, just that, to me, Joshua Seth did a much better job.

As for his episode 1 look, it's not so much that I hated it, just prefer how 3 gives him long pants instead of shorts.

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#96: Jun 1st 2012 at 6:31:01 PM

Don't know don't care, I only endorse the Un Dub

Blissey1 insert title here from a random Pokècenter Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I know
insert title here
#97: Jun 1st 2012 at 6:34:28 PM

There's a lot of things I didn't like about ep2, but the biggest one by far, was the change of KOS-MOS's voice actress. Which is really odd, as I usually don't care to much about that sorta thing.

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Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#98: Jun 1st 2012 at 6:46:58 PM

That's because Bridget Hoffman is awesome and the new lady...wasn't.

I firmly believe two of the things that sank EP 2 so completely was the replacement of Shion and Kossy's V As.

And speaking of Uncanny Valley, EP2 KOS-MOS' design takes the mentally retarded cake. The art style in 2 is just absolute garbage. Poor Kossy looks less like an emotionless robot and more like a braindead doll.

Oh and on the topic of KOS-MOS designs, Archetype KOS-MOS is pure Nightmare Fuel.

edited 1st Jun '12 6:48:24 PM by Nikkolas

TheGunheart Some nights I rule the world (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Some nights I rule the world
#99: Jun 1st 2012 at 6:50:57 PM

I guess the reason why, as much as I hate the change, I still like 2 is that Shion and KOS-MOS are also Out of Focus for a good portion of it, so as bad the change was, I didn't have to put up with it that much.

lu127 Paper Master from 異界 Since: Sep, 2011 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#100: Jun 2nd 2012 at 2:42:28 AM

Episode 1's graphics and artwork weren't good for the time. If Final Fantasy X, Dark Cloud and Rogue Galaxy can make their characters not look so ridiculous, then there's no reason Xenosaga couldn't. Taking KOS-MOS seriously was impossible with those bulging red eyes. Same with Shion. And their motions were very clumsy.

And yeah, Joshua Seth was the best chaos.

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer

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