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Is America successful/significant?

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BobbyG vigilantly taxonomish from England Since: Jan, 2001
vigilantly taxonomish
#1: Jan 24th 2011 at 6:16:42 PM

I think so.

Discuss if you so wish.

Edit: And please, no one-line Take That! posts or trolling. If you can have a sane, mature discussion about this, go ahead and have one. Otherwise, this gets locked.

edited 24th Jan '11 6:39:34 PM by BobbyG

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BalloonFleet MASTER-DEBATER from Chicago, IL, USA Since: Jun, 2010
MASTER-DEBATER
#2: Jan 24th 2011 at 6:17:54 PM

For now at least.

"Successful" as a whole/macroeconomic view/GDP aspect - not in terms of a standard-of-living/quality of life of the average citizen or a gini coefficient and it is going to degrade over a period of time.

edited 24th Jan '11 6:19:36 PM by BalloonFleet

WHASSUP....... ....with lolis!
thatguythere47 Since: Jul, 2010
#3: Jan 24th 2011 at 6:18:49 PM

Has it been? Yes. Will it continue to be? For awhile, at least. Will it stand the test of time? Probably not.

Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?
saladofstones :V from Happy Place Since: Jan, 2011
:V
#4: Jan 24th 2011 at 6:18:58 PM

Yes, how can this be really challenged?

America withdrawing its military forces would cause an interesting effect since Western Europe could no longer rely on America for support during a World War III scenario so they would have to pay a larger degree of their defense bill, which alone would cause cutbacks in other areas.

China, while its trying to advance, has massive, massive issues with corruption and at least according to BBC knowledge, a population issue within twenty years because of the one-child only plan.

It is the nature of nations and empires to collapse slowly and gradually but I feel that a lot of people simply want America to collapse, both from within and in the international community.

edited 24th Jan '11 6:19:38 PM by saladofstones

Well he's talking about WWII when the Chinese bomb pearl harbor and they commuted suicide by running their planes into the ship.
Ukonkivi Over 10,000 dead.:< Since: Aug, 2009
Over 10,000 dead.:<
#5: Jan 24th 2011 at 6:20:25 PM

It's "significant" enough to warrant the torrent of "Anti-Globalism" against it.

Genkidama for Japan, even if you don't have money, you can help![1]
cutewithoutthe Góðberit Norðling Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Star-crossed
Góðberit Norðling
#6: Jan 24th 2011 at 6:21:33 PM

I don't think America will crumble; instead, I believe it will just morph into something else.

ViralLamb Since: Jun, 2010
#7: Jan 24th 2011 at 6:23:12 PM

Will it stand the test of time? Probably not.

Nothing does.

Power corrupts. Knowledge is Power. Study hard. Be evil.
shinfernape Ascetic warrior Since: Jun, 2011
Ascetic warrior
#8: Jan 24th 2011 at 6:23:52 PM

In a word; yes. But it's kinda looking like the rotten-toothed lion at this point.

A wish is never free.
saladofstones :V from Happy Place Since: Jan, 2011
:V
#9: Jan 24th 2011 at 6:25:50 PM

I will say I learned that Europe, as a whole, knows not nearly as much as it likes to believe it does about itself or America. And still thinks of it itself much too highly for my tastes. I would rather belief that all nations are equally horrible to each other than blame America for all the problems in the world. Belgium has a lot of problems but its of its own doing, but given that under America's "Rule" so to speak, there hasn't been any major world wars, it seems to be doing good.

As it is, what do you mean by success, Bobby, and what is considered significant? Asking certain people here to define them is asking for trouble.

edited 24th Jan '11 6:27:07 PM by saladofstones

Well he's talking about WWII when the Chinese bomb pearl harbor and they commuted suicide by running their planes into the ship.
CommandoDude Since: Jun, 2010
#10: Jan 24th 2011 at 6:26:13 PM

I would best describe the current America as "Really sick"

Ukonkivi Over 10,000 dead.:< Since: Aug, 2009
Over 10,000 dead.:<
#11: Jan 24th 2011 at 6:27:28 PM

I agree, the nature result of an Empire, of a political form and nation, is to crumble and change into something else. One can only delay the inevitable. Change will happen.

The United States is already a kind of loose connection held together by strings. The Enlightenment thought behind it's foundation, however, helps.

By the way, I think this song describes the success of "America"(see: United States) pretty well.

edited 24th Jan '11 6:27:41 PM by Ukonkivi

Genkidama for Japan, even if you don't have money, you can help![1]
BobbyG vigilantly taxonomish from England Since: Jan, 2001
vigilantly taxonomish
#12: Jan 24th 2011 at 6:27:42 PM

It's intentionally open for discussion, Salad.

My main intention in starting this topic was to divert the derail - which covered everything from economics to philosophy - from the American Dream thread.

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saladofstones :V from Happy Place Since: Jan, 2011
:V
#13: Jan 24th 2011 at 6:28:53 PM

The problem is that you need a tight framework for this kind of discussion otherwise people will make posts involving Rammenstein and use that as a basis for their point. Or leave little one-liners or some other such thing.

edited 24th Jan '11 6:29:10 PM by saladofstones

Well he's talking about WWII when the Chinese bomb pearl harbor and they commuted suicide by running their planes into the ship.
Ukonkivi Over 10,000 dead.:< Since: Aug, 2009
Over 10,000 dead.:<
#14: Jan 24th 2011 at 6:34:33 PM

Ukonkivi did something terrible. He posted a mainstream Industrial band.

Globalism has nothing worth discussing in it.

Genkidama for Japan, even if you don't have money, you can help![1]
shinfernape Ascetic warrior Since: Jun, 2011
Ascetic warrior
#15: Jan 24th 2011 at 6:35:26 PM

Yeah Europe is in a right mess with Spain, Ireland, Iceland and Greece etc. But the EU maintains the standards I and a lot of others value such as non-gm food and the fact that the cocoa ratios in Chocolate are higher by EU law then in the US.

Also the metric system.

Some EU countries though are pulling themselves back together like Britain which is seeing a good boost in manufacturing and the financial sector is back making stupid bonuses on a good year. There is some pain though in terms of government austerity and at the retail level but I think Britian is on it's road to recovery.

I dunno much about how the others are faring but I assume Germany's also doing quite well, as is France.

But see the EU countries have secured their place as individual soft powers but part of a poweful consortium.

But yeah, many of the standard that I hold in high regard are better served in Europe and Britain than in the US.

A wish is never free.
saladofstones :V from Happy Place Since: Jan, 2011
:V
#16: Jan 24th 2011 at 6:36:46 PM

I've never seen the EU as a power consortium.

Its certainly not as useless as the UN, but there are plenty of issues I have with the EU.

edited 24th Jan '11 6:38:35 PM by saladofstones

Well he's talking about WWII when the Chinese bomb pearl harbor and they commuted suicide by running their planes into the ship.
BobbyG vigilantly taxonomish from England Since: Jan, 2001
vigilantly taxonomish
#17: Jan 24th 2011 at 6:38:35 PM

All right, a reminder: this is not a thread for general America bashing. You can be critical, but don't troll. Thank you.

Just wanted to head that kind of thing off.

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shinfernape Ascetic warrior Since: Jun, 2011
Ascetic warrior
#18: Jan 24th 2011 at 6:43:17 PM

[up] But I'm trying to back up GB and talk about the good things in Europe.

All I said here was that America is just growing old.


LMAO the other thread got locked.

edited 24th Jan '11 7:18:06 PM by shinfernape

A wish is never free.
storyyeller More like giant cherries from Appleloosa Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#20: Jan 24th 2011 at 8:34:04 PM

Like the British Empire, we have been so successful that we are creating our own replacements. We set out to accomplish certain goals, to unify a diverse nation of immigrants, and to promote the spread of democracy around the world. You can argue about our means, and we committed a lot of crimes and made a lot of mistakes along the way, but we accomplished our goals, and did it with our values mostly intact. I think history will look favorably on us.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
saladofstones :V from Happy Place Since: Jan, 2011
:V
#21: Jan 24th 2011 at 8:34:40 PM

@De: Those were Marshall's last words (figuratively speaking). History didn't prove to be so kind.

edited 24th Jan '11 8:34:56 PM by saladofstones

Well he's talking about WWII when the Chinese bomb pearl harbor and they commuted suicide by running their planes into the ship.
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#22: Jan 25th 2011 at 3:32:20 AM

Thurgood?

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Sandor from London/Cambridge Since: Oct, 2009
#23: Jan 25th 2011 at 4:04:33 AM

"Yes, how can this be really challenged?

America withdrawing its military forces would cause an interesting effect since Western Europe could no longer rely on America for support during a World War III scenario so they would have to pay a larger degree of their defense bill, which alone would cause cutbacks in other areas."

Uh, you realise europe has the third and forth largest stockpiles of nuclear weapons right? There won't be a world war three. It is a scenario that will never occur, and if it ever does, nothing will matter anyway.

Now there could be a point to be made that it would stop intervention around the globe, but America hasn't exactly been perfect there either.

(and this ignores how much France, and the UK put into military spending, it's not like without America our force projection would be reduced to a man and his dog)

"When you cut your finger, I do not bleed." Response of a man who lived on the outskirts of a concentration camp.
TibetanFox Feels Good, Man from Death Continent Since: Oct, 2010
Feels Good, Man
#24: Jan 25th 2011 at 5:04:49 AM

We are having this discussion. Unironically.

If it weren't, we wouldn't be.

/thread.

saladofstones :V from Happy Place Since: Jan, 2011
:V
#25: Jan 25th 2011 at 9:26:59 AM

@sandor: I'm referring to a conventional scenario, or a limited nuclear engagement, and it is based on projections made by the British in their analysis of World War III (published in a book called World War III) made by their think-tanks. At any rate, we're screwed since Belgium isn't going to be holding off the Soviet onslaught.

That and a fair amount of the planning, at least back then, was reliant on American intervention being speedy and inevitable.

Anyone who ever uses /thread FOR ANY REASON, has their point invalidated and is eligible for execution via firing squad.

edited 25th Jan '11 9:28:21 AM by saladofstones

Well he's talking about WWII when the Chinese bomb pearl harbor and they commuted suicide by running their planes into the ship.
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