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Tea Party Demands "Minority Experience" Be Removed From Textbooks

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Wanderhome The Joke-Master Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
The Joke-Master
#26: Jan 16th 2011 at 1:14:20 PM

@Wuggles "But like I said, doesn't any study of any culture count as ethnic studies? So theoretically, European history should be banned too, but I doubt that would ever happen because white is the default in America. Isn't European history targeted at a specific group(people of European descent)? And I really don't know any ethnic studies classes that encourage overthrow of the government or teach you to hate everybody. If they had cited better reasons, then maybe I would agree."

Ethnic studies, to my understanding, do not focus on nations of origin, but rather on the subcultures of immigrant populations after they entered the United States.

There is nothing wrong with, for instance, having students study the history of Mexico or the history of Africa. The post I was replying to, however, specifically mentioned "Chicano" and "African-American" studies. These are not studies of the histories of foreign nations, but the focused study on particular subsets of the overall American population.

As recently as the last century, there were strong tensions between immigrants from different European nations. The Irish, Italians, and such were commonly and openly discriminated against, and conflicted with each other as well. Vestiges of these tensions remain, but they have mostly subsided, because those Irish, Italian, English, German, and other immigrant cultures have, over the course of time, merged into a more-or-less unified American culture.

It would be just as inadvisable to encourage "Irish-American" or "German-American" studies as "Chicano" or "African-American" studies, because they all serve the same, ultimately destructive end: classifying Americans into different groups by descent.

Disunity along ethnic lines has caused America countless troubles in the past, and by highlighting those differences we only serve to encourage such divisions to remain.

BobbyG vigilantly taxonomish from England Since: Jan, 2001
vigilantly taxonomish
#27: Jan 16th 2011 at 1:15:10 PM

@ Inky Quills: History is generally understood to mean the study of the past. I don't see why it should not include some details of the everyday attitudes and experiences of ordinary men and women of various social standings and cultures; those are both important context to the events described and important in their own right because of their influence on modern society.

@ Linhasxoc: The glorification of historical figures is hardly new. It helps to generate patriotic pride. The attempt to create a semi-mythological cultural narrative has long been a common practice among nationalists, for example.

edited 16th Jan '11 1:15:48 PM by BobbyG

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Rottweiler Dog and Pony Show from Portland, Oregon Since: Dec, 2009
Dog and Pony Show
#28: Jan 16th 2011 at 1:17:41 PM

It seems to me that this TP splinter is trying to whitewash anything bad one of the Founders ever did, so we can think of them as gods. What on earth is to be gained by that?

This painting.

“Love is the eternal law whereby the universe was created and is ruled.” — St. Bernard
silver2195 Since: Jan, 2001
#29: Jan 16th 2011 at 1:18:38 PM

The US history textbook I used had slight liberal bias and a fairly strong populist bias (that is, it tended to portray people like Thomas Jefferson and William Jennings Bryan in a relatively positive light, and people like Alexander Hamilton in a relatively negative one, treated "government by experts" as the worst rather than the best aspect of the Progressive movement, etc.).

edited 16th Jan '11 1:19:03 PM by silver2195

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Wanderhome The Joke-Master Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
The Joke-Master
#30: Jan 16th 2011 at 1:18:50 PM

[up][up]... Do not tell me that's from the National Cathedral.

edited 16th Jan '11 1:18:58 PM by Wanderhome

EnglishIvy Since: Aug, 2011
#31: Jan 16th 2011 at 1:20:36 PM

@Bobby: Building off of what you said, the glorification of national figures is a practice that should be curtailed, because it's creepy as hell.

Wanderhome The Joke-Master Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
The Joke-Master
#32: Jan 16th 2011 at 1:22:09 PM

@English Ivy: Arguable. On the one hand, it is a disservice to learning, but on the other, it would serve to improve nationalism, and the real information would still be there for those who cared to look for it.

Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#33: Jan 16th 2011 at 1:23:31 PM

I never understood why we Americans treat the founding fathers as some sort of deities.

They were smart guys sure, but they were not freaking angels sent from god.

[up] Why would you want to increase Nationalism? America is overly patriotic as it is.

edited 16th Jan '11 1:24:07 PM by Thorn14

silver2195 Since: Jan, 2001
#34: Jan 16th 2011 at 1:23:33 PM

I don't think it's healthy; nationalism should be based on ideals, not individuals.

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InkyQuills Ghost of Hatter from Anytown, USA Since: Dec, 2010
Ghost of Hatter
#35: Jan 16th 2011 at 1:23:37 PM

As a political tool, deification of historical leaders can be useful as a way of unifying a country. The actual danger of deifying national heroes is that it can stifle legitimate criticism and the expression of dissenting opinion. It's also a disservice to history.

George Washington as the God-Emperor would be pretty awesome, though.

In the same place I was that one time, all the time
Rottweiler Dog and Pony Show from Portland, Oregon Since: Dec, 2009
Dog and Pony Show
#36: Jan 16th 2011 at 1:24:48 PM

@Wanderhome: It's painted on the underside of the Capitol dome.

“Love is the eternal law whereby the universe was created and is ruled.” — St. Bernard
Wanderhome The Joke-Master Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
The Joke-Master
#37: Jan 16th 2011 at 1:24:50 PM

[up][up]You assume that wasn't already canon.

EDIT: That's actually kind of a relief, given my first assumption.

edited 16th Jan '11 1:25:53 PM by Wanderhome

JosefBugman Since: Nov, 2009
#38: Jan 16th 2011 at 1:25:29 PM

The fact that Washington was pretty incompetent as a military leader doesn't really speak highly for him as God-Emperor.

I would personally put Fredrick II of Prussia in charge, better military leadership and slightly less masonry.

edited 16th Jan '11 1:28:11 PM by JosefBugman

EnglishIvy Since: Aug, 2011
#39: Jan 16th 2011 at 1:27:30 PM

@Wanderhome: If something is a disservice to learning, then it has no place in our schools.

Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#40: Jan 16th 2011 at 1:28:49 PM

[up] This a million god damn times this.

Leave propaganda out of our schools for the love of all that is educational.

Rottweiler Dog and Pony Show from Portland, Oregon Since: Dec, 2009
Dog and Pony Show
#41: Jan 16th 2011 at 1:29:37 PM

@EI: So in the search for truth, should students be allowed to voice heresy?

@Thorn: Even the propaganda of equality?

edited 16th Jan '11 1:30:13 PM by Rottweiler

“Love is the eternal law whereby the universe was created and is ruled.” — St. Bernard
Wanderhome The Joke-Master Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
The Joke-Master
#42: Jan 16th 2011 at 1:30:02 PM

@ English Ivy: The purpose of a school is to prepare children to function as adults, through both academic instruction and teaching of social interaction and working in an organized society. Academic instruction, while in theory the primary goal, tends in practice to be secondary to shaping students into functioning members of society.

JosefBugman Since: Nov, 2009
#43: Jan 16th 2011 at 1:32:15 PM

Functioning members of society with unrealistic expectations of what the past was like when a few "good" men were around are not going to be functional adults.

InkyQuills Ghost of Hatter from Anytown, USA Since: Dec, 2010
Ghost of Hatter
#44: Jan 16th 2011 at 1:33:25 PM

Rottweiller, tolerance and equality are about the only things I feel comfortable with being propaganda. Those are the basic values that a just society needs. I'd rather it stay out of the history textbooks, though.

In the same place I was that one time, all the time
Wanderhome The Joke-Master Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
The Joke-Master
#45: Jan 16th 2011 at 1:33:30 PM

@ Josef Bugman: Why not?

Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#46: Jan 16th 2011 at 1:33:47 PM

@Rott How is that propaganda?

@Wander Teaching nationalism does not have to be something that prepares you for society. They can learn it on your own.

Learning how to to use a coffee machine or put on a suit is something you need to function in society, but schools dont teach that.

edited 16th Jan '11 1:34:19 PM by Thorn14

Wanderhome The Joke-Master Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
The Joke-Master
#47: Jan 16th 2011 at 1:35:16 PM

[up] Parents, friends, and other close individuals can be (generally) relied on to teach individuals basic skills. Nationalism will not necessarily be reliably transmitted the same way.

Filby Since: Jan, 2001
#48: Jan 16th 2011 at 1:35:40 PM

The Founding Fathers were hypocritical at times, and even I would argue that some of them were rotten to the core, but at the same time I think it would be a disservice to the actual individuals who helped found this country if we focused solely on their good deeds or on their hypocrisy. They were men, just like we are today.

I agree with this sentiment. In fact, I believe that acknowledging that the Founding Fathers were flawed human beings and not enlightened god-men makes it all the more incredible that they were able to draft a body of laws that's stood the test of 200+ years.

What the Tea Party is trying to do is revise history so that wealthy white males were always in the right (and ON the right) and all those women, queers, and minorities whining about civil rights have no leg to stand on.

Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#49: Jan 16th 2011 at 1:38:01 PM

[up][up] Bullocks.

Where do you think most people get their political and social views from?

[up]Agreed. I'm sick of people turning historical figures into pure godlike beings.

Winston Churchill was NOT a good person.

edited 16th Jan '11 1:39:19 PM by Thorn14

JosefBugman Since: Nov, 2009
#50: Jan 16th 2011 at 1:38:49 PM

Because it implies that every problem is easily solveable, that the past was better than it actually was, and that the modern state has changed and become more corrupt because we don't have any one like Washington anymore.

That and a hatred for the English.


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