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The tone of political debate on major controversial issues these days

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deathjavu This foreboding is fa... from The internet, obviously Since: Feb, 2010
This foreboding is fa...
#76: Jan 11th 2011 at 2:14:29 PM

[up][up][up] Got it, we're under the responsibility not to make anyone with guns feel threatened because they have guns.

Wait, is that how democracy works?

protip: no, no it is not.

You're kind of dragging over the already played out discussion from the other thread, which is funny because everyone had already agreed in both threads (as far as I read) that violent rhetoric, while by no means illegal, is definitely irresponsible. And yes, both sides do it, and the argument "but side x does it more/too" is absolutely childish and pointless  *

.

So...can't we just punish people that use such rhetoric by not listening to them/not voting for them? Much like a corporation as a whole only cares about money/listens to money, politicians as a whole only really respond to votes. Put your money where your mouth is, so to speak, and instead of everyone decrying the mudslinging and rhetoric and then accepting it when their side does it "because the other side does it too, and they're obviously much worse so we can't let them win," let's elect some different fucking people for a change. Or become politically active. Or stage/join a moderation protest, a la the march for sanity. Or move to another country, if you're so convinced it's better (hint: it might be, but probably not as much as you think). Or anything other than paying lip service to the idea of disliking extremism, and then going along with it anyways because "the other side is worse".

edited 11th Jan '11 2:15:09 PM by deathjavu

Look, you can't make me speak in a logical, coherent, intelligent bananna.
OscarWildecat Bite Me! from The Interwebz Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Bite Me!
#77: Jan 11th 2011 at 2:16:50 PM

[up]Thank you for that post.

Please spay/neuter your pets. Also, defang your copperheads.
RawPower Jesus as in Revelations from Barcelona Since: Aug, 2009
Jesus as in Revelations
#78: Jan 11th 2011 at 2:19:13 PM

Moving to another country is evaporative cooling of belief, which will then achieve supercritical uncriticality.

Okay, in normal lingo, if the more reasonable people leave the debate/the place, the remaining unreasonable people drag the rest into their direction by giving them the illusion that their attitutde is normal: the group's overton window is displaced. The more it coalesces around an extreme the more that extreme seems normal, the more good things people find to say about that extreme and the less tolerant they are of divergent opinions. And then you get stuff like Nationalistic Jingoism, Theocracy, and the Kool-Aid (OH YEAH!)

'''YOU SEE THIS DOG I'M PETTING? THAT WAS COURAGE WOLF.Cute, isn't he?
SilentStranger Trivia Depository from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Trivia Depository
#79: Jan 11th 2011 at 2:35:52 PM

Dude, people brought guns to political rallies!! You dont think thats a tad bit threatening?

silver2195 Since: Jan, 2001
#80: Jan 11th 2011 at 3:05:12 PM

Honestly, the right probably does use more violent rhetoric than the left at the moment. I linked to that article mostly because it was the most interesting thing that came up when I Googled "kill Bush".

Currently taking a break from the site. See my user page for more information.
RawPower Jesus as in Revelations from Barcelona Since: Aug, 2009
Jesus as in Revelations
#81: Jan 11th 2011 at 3:06:24 PM

That guy should be tried at La Hay for war crimes.

'''YOU SEE THIS DOG I'M PETTING? THAT WAS COURAGE WOLF.Cute, isn't he?
Tzetze DUMB from a converted church in Venice, Italy Since: Jan, 2001
RawPower Jesus as in Revelations from Barcelona Since: Aug, 2009
Jesus as in Revelations
#83: Jan 11th 2011 at 3:09:02 PM

He declared preemptive war on a country that wasn't being a threat to anyone, in spite of the UN and basically the entire planet. That's a war of aggression. Maybe it's ignorant from me, but I hope there's some rule against doing stuff like that.

'''YOU SEE THIS DOG I'M PETTING? THAT WAS COURAGE WOLF.Cute, isn't he?
Tzetze DUMB from a converted church in Venice, Italy Since: Jan, 2001
RawPower Jesus as in Revelations from Barcelona Since: Aug, 2009
Jesus as in Revelations
#85: Jan 11th 2011 at 3:11:41 PM

I feel a couple of shoes (which he dodged) and international humiliation just isn't enough.

If only it had been a pineapple cream pie...

edited 11th Jan '11 3:12:09 PM by RawPower

'''YOU SEE THIS DOG I'M PETTING? THAT WAS COURAGE WOLF.Cute, isn't he?
Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#86: Jan 11th 2011 at 3:17:06 PM

So...can't we just punish people that use such rhetoric by not listening to them/not voting for them?

I wish people would actually do that.

I also wish there were term limits on Congress, because I get the feeling a lot of this comes from the one-upsmanship of trying to hold/oust someone's incumbency.

Got it, we're under the responsibility not to make anyone with guns feel threatened because they have guns.

Wait, is that how democracy works?

No, you're under the responsibility to not make matters worse no matter which side you're on. "They're idiots" is never an excuse to descend to throwing petty insults. Ever. Especially when the problem in the first place is a lack of mutual respect.

edited 11th Jan '11 3:20:08 PM by Pykrete

Nohbody "In distress", my ass. from Somewhere in Dixie Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
"In distress", my ass.
#87: Jan 11th 2011 at 3:25:28 PM

Yep, there's no comparison between violent political rhetoric on the right and on the left. It's mostly being done by the right.

Oh, wait...

Like I said in another thread, I don't care for the violent imagery used from any side. Trying to paint it as all being from one side or the other is petty partisan bullshit, regardless of which side is doing it. Don't try to act all high and mighty or throw out No True Scotsman crap to avoid having to acknowledge that it's hardly a one-sided issue.

All your safe space are belong to Trump
rmctagg09 The Wanderer from Brooklyn, NY (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
The Wanderer
#88: Jan 11th 2011 at 3:28:30 PM

@SS: When I saw people doing that when I came back from my internship upstate, my first thought was, "I leave for two weeks and the country decides to go batshit insane in my absence." It was just horrible to watch.

Hugging a Vanillite will give you frostbite.
rjung He's just some guy, you know? from Fifth and Main (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
He's just some guy, you know?
#89: Jan 11th 2011 at 3:30:27 PM

Conservatives use violent rhetoric and threats more often because that's part of the conservative mindset — an intolerance for people who are different from themselves ("Suffer not a witch to live" and all that).

If a Liberal disagrees with you, odds are he'll just say "Let's agree to disagree," and maybe go somewhere so he doesn't have to have the argument anymore, realizing it's futile. A conservative, however, cannot tolerate knowing that you're still out there, having views/beliefs/lifestyles that are different. If you're lucky, they'll just simmer in silent anger... and if you're unlucky, it's time for the broken windows, flaming crosses, and Public Displays of Ammunition.

—R.J.

P.S. @Nohbody: You're going to cite Michelle Malkin? REALLY???

edited 11th Jan '11 3:31:12 PM by rjung

KCK Can I KCK it? from In your closet Since: Jul, 2010
Can I KCK it?
#90: Jan 11th 2011 at 3:32:43 PM

@rjung You really enjoy fighting strawmen, don't you?

There's no justice in the world and there never was~
silver2195 Since: Jan, 2001
#91: Jan 11th 2011 at 3:33:00 PM

[up][up]Ignore the source. Look at the evidence she cites.

edited 11th Jan '11 3:33:16 PM by silver2195

Currently taking a break from the site. See my user page for more information.
Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#92: Jan 11th 2011 at 3:34:13 PM

Suffer not a witch to live

...

-sends extremely conservative father a quick message asking about this-

-gets a WTF in reply-

I think your target practice strawman has taken a bit of a beating today. Let the poor sap grow back a bit before you lay into him again.

If a Liberal disagrees with you, odds are he'll just say "Let's agree to disagree,"

Or make a ton of angry internet threads doing exactly not this. You do realize you're contributing to exactly the problem the thread is about, right?

edited 11th Jan '11 3:36:32 PM by Pykrete

Tzetze DUMB from a converted church in Venice, Italy Since: Jan, 2001
DUMB
#93: Jan 11th 2011 at 3:35:08 PM

It's normal for politics to make me want to take a drill to my head, right?

[1] This facsimile operated in part by synAC.
RawPower Jesus as in Revelations from Barcelona Since: Aug, 2009
Jesus as in Revelations
#94: Jan 11th 2011 at 3:35:33 PM

POLITICS IS THE MIND KILLER

'''YOU SEE THIS DOG I'M PETTING? THAT WAS COURAGE WOLF.Cute, isn't he?
Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#95: Jan 11th 2011 at 3:35:41 PM

[up][up]I wish I could say that was indeed a normal response. It would give me so much more faith in humanity.

edited 11th Jan '11 3:36:00 PM by Pykrete

Tzetze DUMB from a converted church in Venice, Italy Since: Jan, 2001
DUMB
#96: Jan 11th 2011 at 3:36:22 PM

^I don't know what you mean

^^I really don't need to see people mindlessly parroting shit they read on the internet right now, okay?

[1] This facsimile operated in part by synAC.
RawPower Jesus as in Revelations from Barcelona Since: Aug, 2009
Jesus as in Revelations
#97: Jan 11th 2011 at 3:38:38 PM

...

It's not mindless...

I was trying to be funny... in-joke and all that...

But yeah, I agree 100% with the content of this article, wanna challenge me on that? Really, that was uncalled for, but if you're throwing me a rethoric glove I am your man.

'''YOU SEE THIS DOG I'M PETTING? THAT WAS COURAGE WOLF.Cute, isn't he?
Tzetze DUMB from a converted church in Venice, Italy Since: Jan, 2001
DUMB
#98: Jan 11th 2011 at 3:40:45 PM

No, not really, I just wish you'd say why instead of just putting an aricle title.

I mean, I knew what would happen. Article gets linked. It's probably accurate but wrapped in rhetoric which will dissuade anyone who doesn't already agree from reading it. The first response to it is to dispute the source. Maybe next somebody will say that all Democrats are secretly violent, temporarily shuffling the hypocrisy away. I don't want to know.

edited 11th Jan '11 3:42:00 PM by Tzetze

[1] This facsimile operated in part by synAC.
RawPower Jesus as in Revelations from Barcelona Since: Aug, 2009
Jesus as in Revelations
#99: Jan 11th 2011 at 3:46:16 PM

Well, maybe they are, but they have even more merit, because they keep the damn violence to themselves and don't go spreading it and boasitng about it.

And rjung seems to give a good caricature of what the conservative discourse seems to be like in the USA (uniquely, too, in France and Spain the right-wing is usually quite happy letting you think whatever you want to think, the former because they value diversity/are just that arrogant/confident, the latter because they just don't care what you think and live in their own little planet).

'''YOU SEE THIS DOG I'M PETTING? THAT WAS COURAGE WOLF.Cute, isn't he?
silver2195 Since: Jan, 2001
#100: Jan 11th 2011 at 3:49:22 PM

Keep in mind that the right in Europe tends to be more authoritarian and less libertarian than the right in the US.

Currently taking a break from the site. See my user page for more information.

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