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JAFAAC: Girl Next Door

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helterskelter Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#76: Jan 20th 2011 at 12:31:08 PM

[up] Being sweet and wholesome, yes, but the trope itself says she doesn't need to be open with others. Approachable to a potential LI or friend, perhaps, but not necessarily a social butterfly.

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#77: Jan 20th 2011 at 12:33:32 PM

There's a difference between being a social butterfly and not wearing masks.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
helterskelter Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#78: Jan 20th 2011 at 12:35:02 PM

[up] Yes, there is. I don't know anything about the girl in question, but I would say hiding herself eliminates her from a Girl Next Door. I wouldn't say "open" is a requirement, is the point I was trying to make.

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#79: Jan 20th 2011 at 12:36:42 PM

I think open was the wrong word. I meant it in the meaning that she wasn't hiding who she was though that seems to have caused some confusion.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#80: Jan 20th 2011 at 12:42:38 PM

Ok one more post... ok forget tina I was off track there I think she was intended to be this but goes a little too far in both directions.

But I still say Aoi though fits its not so much hiding as to being watch by the family watch dog so she doesn't step out of line.

I am really full of fail today... she is on the page and there is a reason she is there its just tough to explain. Sorry.

edited 20th Jan '11 12:48:21 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#81: Jan 20th 2011 at 12:52:46 PM

From everything you've said she should be removed post haste. She doesn't seem to fit the trope at all and every time you've tried to defend her you've just pointed out another reason she doesn't fit.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#82: Jan 20th 2011 at 1:10:58 PM

She fits the page as writin but doesn't seem to fit your thoughts on the trope maybe a few edits when you remove it?

edited 20th Jan '11 1:13:08 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#83: Jan 20th 2011 at 1:48:46 PM

Triple Elation: It doesn't make any difference to me so long as the image clearly illustrates the trope. If anime examples don't really fit due to cultural differences, fine. On the reverse of this, I wouldn't care if Yamato Nadeshiko had an image from a western work so long as it was clear.

DRCEQ Since: Oct, 2009
#84: Jan 20th 2011 at 3:03:13 PM

But how do you visually show the personality traits associated with the GND? Just because we see some girl in a sun dress with a smile on her face in a fairly peaceful looking environment doesn't mean she isn't a total psycho bitch who has to have the final say in anything she does in her life.

TripleElation Diagonalizing The Matrix from Haifa, Isarel Since: Jan, 2001
Diagonalizing The Matrix
#85: Jan 20th 2011 at 3:09:50 PM

[up][up]Well, Taking a look at the common anime characters index- Tsundere, Kichiku, Bishōnen, Cosplay Otaku Girl, Cute Shotaro Boy, Dojikko, Gonk, Genki Girl, Hikikomori, Kuudere and Magical Girl all have Anime/Manga pics. And I stopped there because I got tired. Not a single decidedly-Japanese entry on that list had a non-Anime/Manga pic.

So it looks like this Wiki cares plenty for syncing the pic with the right culture.

edited 20th Jan '11 3:28:41 PM by TripleElation

Pretentious quote || In-joke from fandom you've never heard of || Shameless self-promotion || Something weird you'll habituate to
rodneyAnonymous Sophisticated as Hell from empty space Since: Aug, 2010
#86: Jan 20th 2011 at 10:16:24 PM

[up][up] That is a fair question, but, I think if she looks wholesome without context, and is wholesome with context, that is fine. That is a strike against using an unknown subject from a stock gallery.

On the other hand, personality traits are difficult to show in an image, but not impossible. What are some actions that GND traits might inspire?

Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel. Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.
atheywa from Thurston Co. WA, USA Since: Oct, 2009
#87: Jan 21st 2011 at 10:53:22 AM

"Far too shy and demure. That's not the girl next door. She's sweet, but she's not a shrinking violet."

Why in the world can't the GND be shy? Too girly, too tough, too unwholesome, what?

edited 21st Jan '11 10:54:19 AM by atheywa

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#88: Jan 21st 2011 at 11:03:40 AM

^^^ Well, personally, I don't care what images those pages have. If they're generally the most illustrative of the trope.

Also, anime pictures tend to get used for about a billion tropes anyway, so I'm not sure if your statement really means anything anyway. And the Kuudere image is western animation.

edited 21st Jan '11 11:27:55 AM by Arha

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#89: Jan 21st 2011 at 11:22:11 AM

It's not the common portrayal of the trope because being that timid isn't really the ideal in the culture the trope comes from. The girl next door tends to be friendly and open and that tends to meant that if she's not outgoing, she's at least not to timid to speak to anyone.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
atheywa from Thurston Co. WA, USA Since: Oct, 2009
#90: Jan 21st 2011 at 11:53:54 AM

No one said the the GND is an "American ideal." Maybe she tends to be friendly and open but how does a shy Betty (vs Veronica) not fit the requirements? I think you're the only one who wants to go disqualifying a bunch of established examples.

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#91: Jan 21st 2011 at 11:58:58 AM

I never said it was the American ideal either. The article on the other hand is rather firm about it being the "Western Ideal" though.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
TripleElation Diagonalizing The Matrix from Haifa, Isarel Since: Jan, 2001
Diagonalizing The Matrix
#92: Jan 21st 2011 at 2:38:44 PM

[up][up][up][up] I somehow find it hard to believe that all of those Anime(-wannabe) pictures are on those tropes because they all happened to be the best pictures which were chosen in an impartial way considering all possible images, and if only someone would have said "hey wait a minute, let us seriously consider pictures from outside that cultural sphere of influence for this trope" someone would have actually taken them seriously, and it's just a coincidence that no one ever came up with that argument when dealing with a Japanese-culture-ish trope, but we suddenly hear it here.

I mean, yes, it's an explanation. Here's another explanation: We have lots of people on this site who like Anime. All right, you may be truly impartial and willing to equally consider everything, but the wiki collective consciousness is clearly at odds with you.

edited 21st Jan '11 3:08:26 PM by TripleElation

Pretentious quote || In-joke from fandom you've never heard of || Shameless self-promotion || Something weird you'll habituate to
ThePope Since: Oct, 2010
#93: Jan 21st 2011 at 11:17:12 PM

Just throwing it out there, but I still think the Mary Jane one is the best suggested so far and the best we're gonna get.

rodneyAnonymous Sophisticated as Hell from empty space Since: Aug, 2010
#94: Jan 21st 2011 at 11:40:10 PM

(Which is on the first page.)

Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel. Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.
Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#95: Jan 22nd 2011 at 7:17:55 AM

Didn't say it was impartial. I said that lots of pages have anime pictures and therefore 'Japanese' tropes having anime pictures does not necessarily mean anything especially when considering at least one of the pages you linked to didn't have an anime image. People may overuse anime images on this wiki, but that's because a lot of them consume tha type of media, not because only anime images are appropriate for those pages.

TripleElation Diagonalizing The Matrix from Haifa, Isarel Since: Jan, 2001
Diagonalizing The Matrix
#96: Jan 22nd 2011 at 9:05:42 AM

[up] That's one way to look at it. Another way is that the "But this is a Japanese-culture-ish trope! It should go with an Anime/Manga/Anime-manga-wannabe picture" argument doesn't get brought up not because it's irrelevant but because it doesn't ever need to be. It's taken for granted and treated as an obvious starting point. If someone were to actually suggest a western culture pic for, say, Tsundere, they would be all but laughed out of the thread on the merits of exactly this argument. But nobody ever does, conveniently enough.

Who's right? I acknowledge that your account of things is possibly true, but I'm not willing to concede much more than that. I also get what you're saying about how in theory images from all sorts of origins can show the trope and we should give them a fair chance, but come now, to start this brave initiative here? To suddenly seriously consider this point of view in the context of a bleedingly obvious western culture trope, of all places- given that objectively speaking, the vast majority of Japanese culture tropes have Japanese culture images, for whatever reason? Can't we find someplace else to start, for the sake of decency?

Anyway, we should probably start a crowner.

edited 22nd Jan '11 9:16:45 AM by TripleElation

Pretentious quote || In-joke from fandom you've never heard of || Shameless self-promotion || Something weird you'll habituate to
ThePope Since: Oct, 2010
#97: Jan 22nd 2011 at 9:20:16 AM

I'd start a crowner, but this thread's been such a huge mess of shot-down examples that it's hard to keep up with which ones should even be considered.

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#98: Jan 22nd 2011 at 9:22:44 AM

Since one of the examples you gave was blatantly untrue, poking a big hole through your argument... well, whatever, no one really cares and we're getting offtopic. Not like I'm going to convince you.

TripleElation Diagonalizing The Matrix from Haifa, Isarel Since: Jan, 2001
Diagonalizing The Matrix
#99: Jan 22nd 2011 at 9:33:38 AM

[up] Right, the drawing style fooled me for some reason. That'll teach me to push the "not a single one!" rhetoric instead of advancing a broad statistical argument.

Your point about getting off-topic is valid and we should get back to discussing the specific image for this specific page.

[up][up] Well, we'll have to make do with what we have. Unless an image was unanimously shot down with impossibly strong arguments, let's consider it (yes, the Anime/Manga ones too). It'd be good form to include the significant arguments that "shot down" the image in the crowner, though. Given the points you raised it'd make sense to throw "not picturable, leave alone" in there.

edited 22nd Jan '11 9:56:49 AM by TripleElation

Pretentious quote || In-joke from fandom you've never heard of || Shameless self-promotion || Something weird you'll habituate to
Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#100: Jan 22nd 2011 at 10:44:55 AM

[up][up][up][up] The Pic on The Tsundere page is from a Visual Novel not Anime or Manga (although it got adopted into both)

[up][up][up] Really we havent got a single example that fits EVERYTHING that people have nitpicked other images about...

A google search of this tropes name was NO help its all about the Film:Girl Next Door or about Playboy Movies.... and quite a few anime examples [1] such as Naru from Love Hina, Winry from FMA, and Kasumi from (not sure) (the first two of them fit the page description quite well)

edited 22nd Jan '11 10:49:36 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

ImagePickin: GirlNextDoor
20th Apr '10 12:00:00 AM

Crown Description:

Nominations for replacement images:

Total posts: 114
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