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shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#51: Jan 19th 2011 at 11:26:44 PM

[up] Yeah, that took way too much context.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Tapol Since: Dec, 2009
#52: Jan 20th 2011 at 12:02:36 AM

Besides Mary Jane I also like that Russian girl who lived next to Peter Parker's apartment.

Osmium from Germany Since: Dec, 2010
#53: Jan 20th 2011 at 1:30:34 AM

The whole discussion focuses on literal neighbors. I am not sure why, geography does not matter in this case, it is about a character type.

“Classic character type in Western fiction. The girl next door is used to indicate what is seen as average and wholesome femininity. She is neither butch nor high-maintenance and not promiscuous. Typically pretty in an accessible way.“

I think the best solution would be a picture contrasting the “average” Girl Next Door with a other girl.

Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#54: Jan 20th 2011 at 1:45:34 AM

[up] Its not just in "Western Fiction" though a vast majority of Anime's Childhood Friends fall under that.

Miyano from above is the perfect example she isn't butch, high-maintenance or Promiscuous. She is average cute but Dojikko compared to Yamada who has the looks of a model and is completly focused looking beautiful and on sex 24 hours a day.

edited 20th Jan '11 1:50:57 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
Osmium from Germany Since: Dec, 2010
#55: Jan 20th 2011 at 2:05:52 AM

Do you have a picture were we can compare this two?

edited 20th Jan '11 2:06:08 AM by Osmium

Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#56: Jan 20th 2011 at 2:16:50 AM

I was trying to be done using that example (that was just one that I was using as an example of how this isn't strictly a western trope.)

Anyway here is a comparison (the anime and manga handle it slightly differently) [1]

edited 20th Jan '11 2:18:15 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
Osmium from Germany Since: Dec, 2010
#57: Jan 20th 2011 at 2:27:18 AM

The anime one is to confusing, it looks more like The Ghost Girl Next Door.

I somehow like the first panel of the manga. You can see that she is a nice wholesome girl, the text is not really needed. Even if we decide to use a western example this picture gives us at least an idea how we could show this trope.

TripleElation Diagonalizing The Matrix from Haifa, Isarel Since: Jan, 2001
Diagonalizing The Matrix
#58: Jan 20th 2011 at 9:41:58 AM

This trope was Made in America. It has western culture written all over it. Having an Anime/Manga picture here is like having an American Sitcom character as the picture for Yamato Nadeshiko.

edited 20th Jan '11 9:43:23 AM by TripleElation

Pretentious quote || In-joke from fandom you've never heard of || Shameless self-promotion || Something weird you'll habituate to
Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#59: Jan 20th 2011 at 9:46:46 AM

^ It's a bad image, but that has nothing to do with it if it illustrates the trope.

INUH Since: Jul, 2009
#60: Jan 20th 2011 at 9:53:28 AM

^^Really? The page is telling me that, but I don't really see it.

Infinite Tree: an experimental story
TripleElation Diagonalizing The Matrix from Haifa, Isarel Since: Jan, 2001
Diagonalizing The Matrix
#61: Jan 20th 2011 at 9:54:56 AM

[up][up]And if we only had pictures from Anime and Manga that illustrate this trope, that would be a good argument. But we don't, so we can get a picture that both illustrates the trope and is loyal to the cultural roots of the trope.

Does this trope even exist in Japanese media in a form other than "slightly more subdued and sane Unlucky Childhood Friend who loses the guy to the loud Tsundere who constantly beats him upside the head"?

[up] Look it up on Google, The Other Wiki, etc.

edited 20th Jan '11 9:55:51 AM by TripleElation

Pretentious quote || In-joke from fandom you've never heard of || Shameless self-promotion || Something weird you'll habituate to
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#62: Jan 20th 2011 at 11:25:58 AM

I have to admit, I've watched a fair bit of anime, and read a decent bit of manga. I have never seen an Anime character that fit the Western idea of The Girl Next Door. There's just a cultural feel to it that isn't there in Anime. They have similar character types, but they don't have the same one. That picture you showed earlier? Not a girl next door. Far too shy and demure. That's not the girl next door. She's sweet, but she's not a shrinking violet.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
helterskelter Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#63: Jan 20th 2011 at 11:39:44 AM

Hm. I hadn't thought of that before. It's true, I don't think I've ever seen an anime example of what we'd call a Girl Next Door. It does seem to be a Western equivalent to Yamato Nadeshiko, in many ways. Does the trope itself reflect that, or should we make a Repair to see if it should?

In any case, do we have enough for a crowner?

AceNoctali A lil' bentô ? from France Since: Nov, 2009
A lil' bentô ?
#64: Jan 20th 2011 at 11:46:47 AM

If we're looking at that angle, then please do not put the Tokimemo pic I proposed in the crowner, because in that case it's not an example of the trope.

edited 20th Jan '11 11:47:39 AM by AceNoctali

"Your kindness gives me the presentiment I can be reborn. Now, I want to believe at least in you." - Kaori Yae
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#65: Jan 20th 2011 at 11:51:55 AM

Of the anime examples, only Winry comes close and even she's kind of an edge case. She doesn't have the right personality type really. Being a Yamato Nadeshiko means you're automatically not this trope.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#66: Jan 20th 2011 at 11:52:02 AM

The only Yamato Nadeshiko I can think of that is a Girl Next Door is Aoi from Ai Yori Aoshi... Yamato Nadeshiko's arnt usually very active outside of standard Ladylike things Aoi though will get her hands dirty if needed and has a quite the bit of a rebel streak.

B Gata H Kei's girl fails at Yamato Nadeshiko mostly via being a Dojikko. But still fits the rest and I guess she isn't quite as active as normal Girl Next Door s she tries though.

edited 20th Jan '11 11:54:13 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#67: Jan 20th 2011 at 11:52:56 AM

Yamato Nadeshiko as a trope is very contrary to the Western idea of the Girl Next Door. You can't be both. The personality types are just too different. Looking at the anime examples, they really need to be removed for not being this trope.

edited 20th Jan '11 11:55:26 AM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#68: Jan 20th 2011 at 12:00:47 PM

I would argue that Aoi is both mostly due to the fact that she has to hide her true self from the world but there are the moments where it leaks out more and more as time goes by.

Trained as a Yamato Nadeshiko from day one but she still goes bug hunting with Kaoru at age 6. (I started reading the manga again thanks to another thread and that was in an early chapter.)

edited 20th Jan '11 12:05:04 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#69: Jan 20th 2011 at 12:04:40 PM

[up] She can't be both. If she's hiding herself, then she's missing the openness that's intrinsic to this trope and she doesn't count. The Girl Next Door doesn't have masks. She doesn't play one personality for her parents and another for her boyfriend. She's got a little Tomboy in her, but she's not a Girl Next Door.

edited 20th Jan '11 12:05:43 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#70: Jan 20th 2011 at 12:12:45 PM

She is open to one person, the only person that she ever really knew growing up.

Anyway dropping it.

Edit: Now that I think of it Tina (an American) from the same series is a perfect Girl Next Door type. (No where near a Yamato Nadeshiko)

Friend to everyone, not quite a Tomboy but very active, loves animals, will drink anyone under the table, but has a girly side (fear of lightning) a gamer.

edited 20th Jan '11 12:16:34 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#71: Jan 20th 2011 at 12:14:06 PM

If she's not open to everyone, she's not a Girl Next Door. A Girl Next Door can't just act a certain way to their love interest. They have to be like that to everyone.

I'm not sure that you understand the trope. It's very much a cultural thing.

edited 20th Jan '11 12:21:11 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#72: Jan 20th 2011 at 12:18:03 PM

We just keep ninja editing each other don't we?

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#73: Jan 20th 2011 at 12:18:10 PM

We do.

Your American doesn't fit the girl next door type either. The drinking bits would count her out. She's not wholesome enough.

edited 20th Jan '11 12:19:21 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#74: Jan 20th 2011 at 12:22:05 PM

As the trope is on the page both seem to fit.

Anyway no more posting in this thread from me done with it...

edited 20th Jan '11 12:24:50 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#75: Jan 20th 2011 at 12:24:00 PM

There's more to it than just what's on the page. Like I said, it's a cultural thing. It's being sweet, wholesome, and open, but with very Western definitions of what those words mean. It's the connotations that you aren't grasping and it's hard to convey them.

I'm sure there are things from your own culture that you'd probably have equal difficulty trying to explain.

edited 20th Jan '11 12:24:46 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

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