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kuyanJ Since: Jun, 2009
#1: Jan 9th 2011 at 11:16:01 PM

I know there are a lot of articles on TV Tropes (for example, Game-Breaker) about aspects of gameplay. Are those really tropes, though? Many games (computer and otherwise) have stories to some extent, but that doesn't mean their gameplay is it'sself an aspect of the story.

I'm not saying it's not. Partly I want an answer because there is a gameplay "trope" I'd like to make an article on, except I don't want to make articles which aren't actually on tropes, so I want to check whether it would count as a trope here.

Tropes Are Not Bad.
INUH Since: Jul, 2009
#2: Jan 9th 2011 at 11:17:44 PM

Gameplay tropes are much like story tropes in that they're deliberately  *

selected tools the medium uses to convey itself to the people experiencing it.

What's the trope?

Infinite Tree: an experimental story
Tzetze DUMB from a converted church in Venice, Italy Since: Jan, 2001
DUMB
#3: Jan 9th 2011 at 11:19:36 PM

A trope is just a recurring pattern. It doesn't have to be a story thing.

[1] This facsimile operated in part by synAC.
MetaFour AXTE INCAL AXTUCE MUN from A Place (Old Master)
AXTE INCAL AXTUCE MUN
#4: Jan 10th 2011 at 2:58:57 AM

You Know That Thing Where is a great place for getting feedback on any articles you're thinking of writing.

rodneyAnonymous Sophisticated as Hell from empty space Since: Aug, 2010
#5: Jan 10th 2011 at 11:04:58 AM

If an element of a work doesn't affect its plot, isn't that not a trope?

edited 10th Jan '11 11:05:13 AM by rodneyAnonymous

Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel. Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.
INUH Since: Jul, 2009
#6: Jan 10th 2011 at 11:06:43 AM

No, People Sit On Chairs, as I understand it, is more of something that's so universal that while many works share it and it may have some small effect, it isn't worth troping. For example, the existence of cars changes what you can do with a plot set today, but isn't a trope in itself.

Looking back at that post, it's really unclear. Let me rephrase it. It's something that the creators didn't include for any reason, but because, well, people do sit on chairs.

edited 10th Jan '11 11:09:09 AM by INUH

Infinite Tree: an experimental story
rodneyAnonymous Sophisticated as Hell from empty space Since: Aug, 2010
#7: Jan 10th 2011 at 11:08:43 AM

Omnipresent Tropes and People Sit On Chairs aren't the same at all. PSOC are elements that don't affect the story (that is, not a storytelling device).

Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel. Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.
INUH Since: Jul, 2009
#8: Jan 10th 2011 at 11:09:34 AM

You ninja'd my edit. Let me repost my rephrasing:

Looking back at that post, it's really unclear. Let me rephrase it. It's something that the creators didn't include for any reason, but because, well, people do sit on chairs.

Also, Omnipresent Tropes are valid tropes. People Sit On Chairs is something so omnipresent it's not valid as a trope.

edited 10th Jan '11 11:12:01 AM by INUH

Infinite Tree: an experimental story
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#9: Jan 10th 2011 at 11:21:35 AM

PSOC exists, but doesn't mean anything. You could call it People Breathe Air, or People Eat Food, if it makes you feel better; the point is that it is narratively meaningless — background noise. Omnipresent Tropes are definitely tropes; they're just so universal that it's redundant to comment upon them.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
rodneyAnonymous Sophisticated as Hell from empty space Since: Aug, 2010
#10: Jan 10th 2011 at 11:39:47 AM

"People Sit On Chairs is something so omnipresent it's not valid as a trope."

No, ubiquity isn't what makes it PSOC. It's not having an impact on the plot.

Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel. Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.
Meeble likes the cheeses. from the ruins of Granseal Since: Aug, 2009
likes the cheeses.
#11: Jan 10th 2011 at 1:06:54 PM

Tropes are not strictly limited to things that affect the plot. We have tropes for specific types of sound and visual effects, that wouldn't otherwise impact the plot but impact the way the creator tells the story.

The same holds for Video Game gameplay tropes... they may not all be plot-relevant, but they are something that developer uses to shape the experience of the particular game.

edited 10th Jan '11 1:08:23 PM by Meeble

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Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#12: Jan 10th 2011 at 1:25:56 PM

Exactly. They have a form and a function. They convey a meaning of some sort.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
CaissasDeathAngel House Lewis: Sanity is Relative from Dumfries, SW Scotland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
House Lewis: Sanity is Relative
#13: Jan 10th 2011 at 2:52:02 PM

Hell characterisaton doesn't even necessarily affect the plot! Bi The Way for example is specifically about the fact that a certain character trait does not have any plot relevance.

It's still a trope though.

My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.
rodneyAnonymous Sophisticated as Hell from empty space Since: Aug, 2010
#14: Jan 10th 2011 at 4:15:29 PM

Should perhaps have said "does not convey meaning" instead of "does not impact the plot". That interpretation of BTW is wrong, I think, though: it's when a character is revealed to be bisexual and not portrayed as depraved or hypersexual. Something that explicitly has no storytelling meaning would be classic PSOC.

Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel. Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.
silver2195 Since: Jan, 2001
#15: Jan 10th 2011 at 6:35:40 PM

I'm of the opinion that Bi The Way (and many other recent tropes) are too far in People Sit On Chairs territory. I doubt I'll get consensus to delete them, though I might try sometime.

edited 10th Jan '11 6:36:14 PM by silver2195

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Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#16: Jan 10th 2011 at 8:14:22 PM

From a cultural perspective, being bisexual is a very significant trope and is definitely notable for our purposes. Now, Most People Are Straight would be PSOC.

edited 10th Jan '11 8:14:56 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
kuyanJ Since: Jun, 2009
#17: Jan 12th 2011 at 4:46:11 AM

The trope was called "sliding scale of objectave vs subjectave rules". I think I let it fall out of YKTTW into deletion while I was on a vacation to New South Wales. the most objectave-ruled games were ones like Chess and Magic The Gathering. Games right at the subjectave end are normally only played by children. Near but not at the subjectave end were games like Corrupt A Wish, and there were also about two other tiers. I plan to rewrite it soon, but right now I'm too tired.

Tropes Are Not Bad.
Meeble likes the cheeses. from the ruins of Granseal Since: Aug, 2009
likes the cheeses.
#18: Jan 12th 2011 at 4:55:26 AM

I think that does have potential. I will try to keep an eye out for it when it goes back through YKTTW.

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CaissasDeathAngel House Lewis: Sanity is Relative from Dumfries, SW Scotland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
House Lewis: Sanity is Relative
#19: Jan 12th 2011 at 10:39:04 AM

I think that's workable, in the same way that we have other sliding scales (Sci Fi Hardness, high/low fantasy, etc).

My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.
kuyanJ Since: Jun, 2009
#20: Jan 12th 2011 at 5:48:36 PM

partly the reason I decided to make this thread rather than going straight back to YKTTW was because I thought it was more a "how should we do it?" question than a "how do we do it?" one.

Tropes Are Not Bad.
kuyanJ Since: Jun, 2009
#21: Jan 13th 2011 at 4:02:17 AM

I've called it "Objective Vs Subjective Rules Sliding Scale" because the title I wanted was 1 character too long.

Tropes Are Not Bad.
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