TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Wounded Gazelles

Go To

americanbadass Banned from [CENSORED] Since: Mar, 2010
Banned
#51: Jan 17th 2011 at 2:08:27 PM

[up] <- give or take a dozen of these.

If you make that lion sock puppet you will be my hero.

<On topic>

I think it is a low and scummy tactic, but I wouldn't say it's off limits in my book.

It usually doesn't work though at least from what I can see. During one point in my life, I was the inverse of this, but everyone took it as a straight example and me playing the victim.

So in a nutshell, I hate it because it's been used so much and detected, that when someone really is a victim there is a huge chance of them being treated like they are just playing the role of a wounded gazelle, when they really are the victim. —-

Also I agree with Tsukibus, they are speaking truthful facts when you break things down. Morals, Laws, rules are all just constructs to control others actions. Granted just because this is true doesn't mean those morals/laws are bad thing either.

edited 17th Jan '11 2:12:36 PM by americanbadass

[[User Banned]]_ My Pm box ix still open though, I think?
Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
americanbadass Banned from [CENSORED] Since: Mar, 2010
Banned
#53: Jan 17th 2011 at 2:12:54 PM

Really when they make that rule?

[[User Banned]]_ My Pm box ix still open though, I think?
Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#54: Jan 17th 2011 at 2:22:14 PM

You ninja'd me.

If you ignore the rules, you get banned. Simple as that.

edited 17th Jan '11 2:22:31 PM by Deboss

Fight smart, not fair.
pvtnum11 OMG NO NOSECONES from Kerbin low orbit Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
OMG NO NOSECONES
#55: Jan 17th 2011 at 4:27:52 PM

See, it isn't the laws and rules and stuff that are the things people shouldn't like - it's the fact that we need them in the first place at all. Yeah, it would be real nice if we all had an innate ability to do well to others, but that isn't reality. The fact of life is that there's quite a number of people out there, as this very thread illustrates, that say "I don't care about other people's well-being, I'm only looking out for myself". So, to avoid having them run rampant all over the rest, we have the social constructs in place in various forms to keep it to a tolerable minimum.

That said, it is a sad thing when someone is genuinely the victim of something and no one believes them due to prior instances of selfish individuals doing the wounded gazelle trick.

Happiness is zero-gee with a sinus cold.
Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#56: Jan 17th 2011 at 5:19:57 PM

Couldn't make the sockpuppet, sorry.

Total lack of empathy isn't itself harmful, as moving technology forward as a near universal benefit.

Fight smart, not fair.
Tsukubus I Care Not... from [REDACTED] Since: Aug, 2010
I Care Not...
#57: Jan 17th 2011 at 6:50:43 PM

Society can function perfectly well without any laws, but even if assuming that it cannot, I don't see a major problem. It is not to say that the law should be completely ignored, but that the law is not sacrosanct because it is the law. If it was, there would be no NEED to have punishments.

Very few people have qualms with breaking the law, but nobody wants to be punished. Since the beginning of time, people have only adhered to the law because of one of two reasons (fear of punishment, or religious fanaticism which really also derives from a fear of punishment).

If violating people's sense of law or morals had negative repercussions, why would anyone do it? We've all broken the laws many many many times in our lives (downloading music, doing drugs, shady tax filing), but we're not stupidly-blindly violating it and asking to be punished.

Almost everything I have done contrary to popular morality has been either highly profitable or highly entertaining, with few or no negative repercussions. Or else, why else would would you do it? Let others be controlled by fallible laws and make-believe moralities, it just makes it all the more convenient for me.

edited 17th Jan '11 6:51:35 PM by Tsukubus

"I didn't steal it; I'm borrowing it until I die."
Ultrayellow Unchanging Avatar. Since: Dec, 2010
Unchanging Avatar.
#58: Jan 17th 2011 at 6:56:09 PM

The more I here from you, Tsu, the more irritated I get. Why can't you understand that most people are better than you? Some people, believe it or not, are not as selfish/antisocial as you're saying you and everyone else are. Or, if you want to keep being cynical, they've done a better job internalizing our morality system. And no, not all of us have broken the law at one time or another, thank you very much.

edited 18th Jan '11 1:59:44 AM by FastEddie

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.
Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#59: Jan 17th 2011 at 7:03:50 PM

I think "traffic laws" are probably the most likely laws to be broken.

Fight smart, not fair.
Tsukubus I Care Not... from [REDACTED] Since: Aug, 2010
I Care Not...
#60: Jan 17th 2011 at 7:05:19 PM

Have you never gone above the speed limit? Talked out of turn? Thrown away a paper cup in the non-recycling bin? There's really no substantive difference between small restrictions like that and popular standards of behavior

What I see is an all-pervasive delusion, where people intentionally lower their own welfare because of standards of behavior others (primarily better-off due to not actually buying into that delusion), have conditioned them to follow in a knee-jerk reaction.

"I didn't steal it; I'm borrowing it until I die."
Ultrayellow Unchanging Avatar. Since: Dec, 2010
Unchanging Avatar.
#61: Jan 17th 2011 at 7:17:36 PM

Sorry, my mistake. I was drawing a distinction between societal laws, and governmental restrictions. Everyone's probably broken governmental restrictions at one time or another. By the way, since when is talking out of turn illegal?

Moving on, you seem to believe that by being such a relentlessly self-centered person, you'll be more successful (I assume you mainly mean financially) since you won't be held back by morality, am I right?

edited 17th Jan '11 7:18:45 PM by Ultrayellow

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.
Tsukubus I Care Not... from [REDACTED] Since: Aug, 2010
I Care Not...
#62: Jan 17th 2011 at 7:22:59 PM

Assuming one replaces popular morality with behavior that actually holds up in cost-benefits, then yes, people would live better.

There's only really two ways most people live, being sincerely self-centered, and being dishonest.

"I didn't steal it; I'm borrowing it until I die."
Ultrayellow Unchanging Avatar. Since: Dec, 2010
Unchanging Avatar.
#63: Jan 17th 2011 at 7:51:19 PM

But that's where your argument all falls down, Tsu. It doesn't profit you, because you do better by cooperating with others. Take a look at this thread. Does this look like most people approve of your beliefs in moral relativism? Your beliefs may actually hold you back, ironically. People won't like you if this is your attitude.

As I said in an earlier post, which you declined to reply to, everyone is fairly selfish. Look at it like this. When you consider the wishes of others, you multiply them by a decimal, which is determined by how much you care about them. Your wishes, on the other hand, are multiplied by one. Of course, there are sometimes people you care about more than yourself, but that's another matter. Now, you're someone who has misplaced the decimal point, to extend this metaphor. It doesn't make you a visionary, it makes you an extremist.

Part of maturing is growing from the selfishness of a child to the (mostly unattainable) goal of multiplying a complete stranger's wishes by one too. You're not even close. This isn't to condemn you (I'm not much better) but to explain to you.

Society depends on the implicit agreement of all its members to work together. When people don't do so, and harm others, they have to be removed from active circulation for the good of the whole. But you realize that, and so you will probably never commit a crime large enough to merit serious punishment. But you will merit a million small ones. Your relationships, friendly or romantic, will suffer. Your superiors won't respect you as much as they might. And above all, you won't have anything to make you feel better about yourself.

Wow, looking back on this, it was a little harsh. Tsu, I'm not attacking you, I'm attacking the views you're expressing. Oh, and sorry for the Wall of Text, everyone.

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.
neoYTPism Since: May, 2010
#64: Jan 18th 2011 at 2:26:07 AM

"There's only really two ways most people live, being sincerely self-centered, and being dishonest." - Tsukubus

Oh please, just because YOU'RE remorselessly selfish and unethical doesn't mean you get to psychologically project that onto everybody else.

Tsukubus I Care Not... from [REDACTED] Since: Aug, 2010
I Care Not...
#65: Jan 18th 2011 at 4:41:42 AM

There is one shortcoming in your argument. It makes no difference to one between cooperation with society and public morality and all of those lies, and giving off the appearance of cooperation with society and public morality. It can't be a crime, if you don't get caught, persay. It's only a crime, or social bad-thing if you get caught.

The internet is perfectly anonymous. I lose nothing if someone knows someone on Earth holds these views and this orientation. My personal relations don't suffer if nobody knows. And I seem to have been perfectly successful at doing so. I've spent my entire life appearing as The Ingenue, and that has yet to have cracked.

Every pretends to respect morality, I just don't see the point of doing so on an anonymous forum. I might be someone claiming "ah, you shouldn't do that, that's not right!", but its not like I, or most of the other people who do so, really care. It's just a social ritual done in order to signal you buy into public morality. But there's no point in doing the same thing on an anonymous forum.

I have nothing against committing a "serious crime", it's just most serious crimes don't pay off because of the rather high chance of being caught.

Society needs to make rules to improve overall well-being. Some people accept drops in well-being in order to improve overall well-being. And this system works because people enforce those contracts. But if I won't be caught, there's no reason to hold up my end of the bargain.

And I was pretty sure the point of something like the Wounded Gazelle Gambit was to vastly distort the view of your superiors and most people in your favor.

edited 18th Jan '11 4:46:21 AM by Tsukubus

"I didn't steal it; I'm borrowing it until I die."
JosefBugman Since: Nov, 2009
#66: Jan 18th 2011 at 6:01:55 AM

I would presume its a crime anyway even if you don't. If you kill someone and bury the body in quicklime but are not caught you have still murdered a guy, no matter how nicely you act.

Saying that "its not a crime unless I get caught" is ridiculous. And the fact that you need the internet as someone to peacock too in order to proove your smarts is all kinds of pathetic. Mainly because (as far as you know) its very easy to track IP signatures, and if you are using your PC it would take the work of dedicated technicians a couple of minuites at best to find out where you are posting from.

And some people actually try to live by moral and societal laws, and just because people tend to suck at it, doesn't make them the same as purposefully ignoring it in order to get ahead.

And to put it bluntly, the fact that you have spent paragraph after paragraph esentially saying "I don't have to listen to your puny morality" makes you look stupid and hilarious, like a tiny dog yapping at a building.

Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#67: Jan 18th 2011 at 7:09:28 AM

There is also a considerable difference in function between the Rules that allow society to function and the laws that make it function "better". "Don't kill." is a Rule. "Don't put non-recyclables in the recyclable bin." and "Don't drive faster than 50mph here." are laws, and we can get along without them, although the will be a little more friction between people if they aren't in place or aren't enforced.

edited 18th Jan '11 7:09:44 AM by Madrugada

pvtnum11 OMG NO NOSECONES from Kerbin low orbit Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
OMG NO NOSECONES
#68: Jan 18th 2011 at 10:04:01 AM

Here's a hypothetical. Say you have a tempting situation that you can take advantage of - could be any number of things, but let's say it's finding a wallet or purse, and inside, a large sum of cash. You also find the contact information inside the wallet - name, address, telephone number.

Do you return it in full? Do you take the cash and toss the rest into a nearby dumpster? Or take the cash and then return it?

Happiness is zero-gee with a sinus cold.
betaalpha betaalpha from England Since: Jan, 2001
betaalpha
#69: Jan 18th 2011 at 1:18:33 PM

Me: "Bad guys do it and good guys (and you) might too if there's no other way of righting a wrong." neo YT Pism: Are you implying that the ends justify the means?

Yeah, though it depends on the ends and the severity of the means. Quite a lot of ends are worth millions of people dying in a terrible, endless war. It would have to be a pretty awesomely nasty wounded gazelle gambit to be more horrific than that.

Would a WGG be the right thing for a heroine in an action flick who has no other way to get the cops to investigate a man who she knows is the psychopathic murderer going after her friend? Hey, it's only half way through the movie and the Starfish Killer still has plenty of time to switch targets to this meddlesome woman.

Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#70: Jan 18th 2011 at 2:14:14 PM

Take part of the cash as a finders fee.

Fight smart, not fair.
Ultrayellow Unchanging Avatar. Since: Dec, 2010
Unchanging Avatar.
#71: Jan 18th 2011 at 2:21:47 PM

Return it, though to be perfectly fair, I don't really need the money.

And Tsu, you never know if someone's watching. To pretend to be a good person like that would mean acting like a good person 99.99% of the time. Why bother? That seems like way more work than trying to be a good person because it makes you feel good about yourself. You seem to have deluded yourself into thinking that acting well while secretly thinking mean thoughts (which is kinda pathetic) will make you successful, as opposed to "hurting yourself" by making small sacrifices for others.

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.
pvtnum11 OMG NO NOSECONES from Kerbin low orbit Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
OMG NO NOSECONES
#72: Jan 18th 2011 at 4:00:11 PM

^^ Well, I'd hope to get a finders fee in the end, but I'll let them figure that out, if any. At the end of the day, I have myself to account to even if no one else witnessed the secret test of character.

Happiness is zero-gee with a sinus cold.
Ettina Since: Apr, 2009
#73: Jan 19th 2011 at 5:35:46 PM

Morality is not simply socialization, it also appears to be partially genetic. Psychopathy has a [[url=http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1469-7610.2004.00393.x/full]] large genetic component[[/url]], and appears to be primarily an abnormality in morality.

Speaking of that, Tsu, just out of curiosity, I have a couple of questions for you. Imagine the following two hypothetical scenarios:

Jimmy is a school-kid. At his school, there's a rule that he's not allowed to talk in class unless he's raised his hand and gotten the teacher's permission to talk. One day, at the start of class, the teacher says 'Just for today, students, you're allowed to talk without raising your hand'. During that day, would it be OK for Jimmy to talk without raising his hand first?

Tommy is also a school-kid. At his school, there's a rule that you're not allowed to slap other students. One day, at the start of class, the teacher says 'Just for today, students, you're allowed to slap other students.' During that day, would it be OK for Tommy to slap other students?

If you don't mind answering those questions, I'd really like to know what your opinion is on those two scenarios.

edited 19th Jan '11 5:36:17 PM by Ettina

If I'm asking for advice on a story idea, don't tell me it can't be done.
Ettina Since: Apr, 2009
#74: Jan 21st 2011 at 6:49:46 AM

Did I kill this topic?

If I'm asking for advice on a story idea, don't tell me it can't be done.
pvtnum11 OMG NO NOSECONES from Kerbin low orbit Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
OMG NO NOSECONES
#75: Jan 21st 2011 at 9:35:00 AM

Ebb and flow of conversations. It happens, no worries.

Happiness is zero-gee with a sinus cold.

Total posts: 79
Top