The way I see it, there are two ways to have a "good" job - A) one that you love to do that involves a lot of personal input and creative expression, B) a so-so job in terms of enjoyability that pays well and leaves you with a reasonable amount of free time. A bad job would be both unfulfilling and sucking up all your free time so you can't do something fulfilling on your off-hours. I think Chua is trying to prepare her kids for the third kind of job, whereas my parents and other Sane Asian Parents try to prepare their kids for the second kind of good job, simply because it's rather hard to score something of the first kind that's also enough to live comfortably on and support a family with.
"War doesn't prove who's right, only who's left." "Every saint has a past, every sinner has a future."Yeah, the second option sounds best, especially if you have enough left over time to freelance something else. In my research, liberal arts is not a good field to be in if you like money.
Warm hugs and morally questionable advice given here. Prosey BitchfestI'm personally grateful for the input of my Sane Asian Parents (I'll call them SA Ps - they are kinda sappy). They know I love to write and draw, and they never stopped me from it, but they sure as hell wouldn't let me do that instead of math or science - and by the time the SAP conditioning was over (5th or 6th grade) I myself understood why they did that and would never dream of abandoning the hard sciences to gamble on becoming a famous author.
"War doesn't prove who's right, only who's left." "Every saint has a past, every sinner has a future."In my view, B is also a bad job.
No matter what your job is, it takes up at least about a third of each day, and another third goes to sleep so it doesn't count.
So therefore if your don't like your job (and I mean actually like it, not just can tolerate it), you are wasting a good half of your waking life. Not worth it for any amount of money in my book.
But what happens when you're just barely scraping by? If your position is unstable and you have no training in anything else, you could get in some deep shit unless you saved up a good chunk of your paltry income. And then, you'd be living with very few luxuries, and I don't know a lot of people that could be content with that.
By this logic, I should quit school right now because I hate it.
Warm hugs and morally questionable advice given here. Prosey Bitchfest@Black Humor: Sure, it would be nice if you loved what you actually did in your job independent of other factors, but that's just unlikely. The way I see it, if my job isn't skull-crushingly boring or blood pressure-spikingly stressful, if it pays well, doesn't take up an insane amount of time, and my coworkers and boss are nice, then it's a good job.
"War doesn't prove who's right, only who's left." "Every saint has a past, every sinner has a future."In reverse order:
Well, if (and only if) it helps you get a job you like in the future it's ultimately worth it.
And what's the point of having luxuries if you're not actually happy? Better, at least, to be not happy because you're uncomfortable than to be not happy because of existential ennui.
The risk is just a risk. Lots of people have taken risks to make more money; I don't think it's a bad thing to take a risk for your own happiness.
EDIT: But if you don't like what you do there, why would you do it? You can be happy in the times between no matter what your job is; why would you take a job then that made you unhappy?
edited 31st Jan '11 5:18:26 PM by BlackHumor
I think that B is the job that people who don't end up with C usually do. My cousin is the best example. She majored in anthropology, but because of her parents(who had similar parenting styles to Chua) insistence that she wouldn't make any money she ended up in tech support. She likes it and is happy, and makes a decent amount of money (enough to be able to travel to another country at least once a year) but she would like to do more anthropology related things. However, she managed to make it work for her in that companies want her unique skills.
edited 31st Jan '11 5:21:28 PM by wuggles
@Black Humor: That's just the thing. I don't believe I'll be unhappy. I honestly don't care that much for money - I simply don't want to have a lower standard of living than I do now, when I'm with my parents. That is, a warm house, good food everyday, security for the future, and things like a TV and a computer with an Internet connection. Let me tell you right now, it would be rather hard for me to be happy if I couldn't afford an Internet connection. Maybe that's materialistic, I don't know, but I freaking love living a comfortable life, and I also love having enough to help others. It's nice to afford a good life and donate to charity and improve others' lives. I want all that for myself when I become an adult.
If my job isn't that amazing, then fine, school isn't that amazing either. But I manage to be happy, to still want to get up everyday and go to school, because of a variety of factors unrelated to the actual classwork - my friends, the opportunity to get out of the house and get some fresh air, the downtime in class when I can space out and think about random things...I don't know, I guess a lot of my happiness comes from thinking and reading and talking, which can be found in almost all jobs.
"War doesn't prove who's right, only who's left." "Every saint has a past, every sinner has a future."The risk is just a risk. Lots of people have taken risks to make more money; I don't think it's a bad thing to take a risk for your own happiness.
I guess it depends on the person.
Warm hugs and morally questionable advice given here. Prosey BitchfestWell, we wouldn't be having the argument if we both didn't think that our standards were superior, but I'm willing to bet we simply chose what worked for us. I'm something of a flake, and I like giving up, so it would be impractical for me to measure my happiness on getting to do what I loved, because that changes every day. I mean, I like writing, but I get to do that every day - I'm doing it right now. To me, it's more about crafting a good sentence or paragraph, and less about writing an entire book, although I've tried that and it's fun in its own way, if exhausting.
By the way, I'm curious - what is your job?
"War doesn't prove who's right, only who's left." "Every saint has a past, every sinner has a future."I'm sorry, I guess in light of the whole conversation before that, asking about your job must have seemed condescending or like I was looking to trip you up, but I honestly didn't mean to imply that, and I certainly don't think you're naive. I just think that while it would certainly be a jackpot to get a job that's both fun and well-paying, in my case I might not have the skill and/or powerful passion to make that work. It's just a different path towards happiness.
edited 31st Jan '11 6:43:22 PM by OnTheOtherHandle
"War doesn't prove who's right, only who's left." "Every saint has a past, every sinner has a future."And since that's the case for me at least, I'll focus on liking what I do, instead of doing what I like. "Attitude is a little thing that makes a big difference" and all that. School is certainly a hell of a lot more miserable if I'm sitting there complaining about it and accentuating the negative, while if I focus on learning cool stuff and being with my friends it's actually fun. And I'm pretty sure work will be the same but more.
"War doesn't prove who's right, only who's left." "Every saint has a past, every sinner has a future."@292: It would indeed be a jackpot to get a job that you like AND is well-paying, but it's not quite so difficult if you lower your standards from "well-paying" to "would not cause you to starve".
And don't worry, I was anticipating it based on my response, not based on anything you said. You kind of know when you're making yourself an easy target.
@294: If you mean actually zero, either you're thinking too narrowly or you're just wrong. People will pay for essentially anything out there.
If you just mean not much, so? That was my original thing, that a job you hate but that pays a lot is worse than a job you like but that pays crap.
@295: If you could really be happy anywhere, it shouldn't matter either way what job you get.
EDIT @GMH: That doesn't seem too difficult to me; you've kind of got an obvious audience with enough money to afford it.
edited 31st Jan '11 8:18:41 PM by BlackHumor
But it seems hard to break into if you don't have connections or a terribly obvious background. It also matters which side you bat for, and for better or worse, my conscience directs me to bat for the financial underdogs.
Which is partly why my mom is trying to get me to go to med school or law school. "At least you'll have a reliable source of income!"
edited 31st Jan '11 8:26:44 PM by GlennMagusHarvey
"A job you hate but that pays a lot is worse than a job you like but that pays crap."
I'm inclined to agree, if you really, truly hate the job. But most people don't, even though they like to complain. Most people just think their jobs are "meh, pays the bills." You have your good days, you have your bad.
I don't think I'd be happy anywhere, but I guess in a pretty broad range of places, which cover a lot of mundane jobs that people don't exactly seek out with a passion. I would be happy as a software engineer despite not being a computer nerd, as long as my coworkers were nice people and my personal life was in order.
"War doesn't prove who's right, only who's left." "Every saint has a past, every sinner has a future."

^^ With the attitude she's shown so far, I wouldn't be surprised.
^ I also disapprove of the way she's planning to throw out everything else in her life. Sure, follow your dreams. But keep at least a shred of practicality. She should think this through more and make sure she can support herself on that kind of salary, assuming she can get hired at all. From what she's said to me, I don't think she's really thought about this at all.
Warm hugs and morally questionable advice given here. Prosey Bitchfest