?... There may be a sexism against men but men have most of the levers of power to change that if they want. The fact is, that as an aggregate, the men in power don't want to.
Most sexism against men comes from machismo which is very much self-inflicted as an aggregate of the gender.
and that's how Equestria was made!"men have most of the levers of power to change that if they want."
The vast majority of men do not. I'm so sick and tired of people treating men like some kind of cohesive movement or unit. The average Joe doesn't hold that power. Hell, even most politicians don't since they're only 1 person.
I'm a masculist and Imo men's rights are more important at this time then women's. Unlike women, Men often face legal discrimination in the criminal justice system and in civil disputes.
I will say that the issues of female-on-male domestic violence has been taken more seriously, at least by the LAPD. Of course, I know guys who consider any man who was raped by a woman to be a complete pussy but they are very much the unwanted minority. :V
But given the mess that is dealing with Domestic Violence, I'm sure they aren't taking any chances considering how quickly that can escalate.
edited 8th Jan '11 12:19:17 PM by saladofstones3
What do I think?
I think there are real problems. However, my experience is that this particular movement, instead of seeing itself as an off-shoot of the general feminist movement (that is, breaking down rigidly defined gender roles) places itself in a position as strictly opposed to feminism.
It seems to be more about conflict than resolution. I personally think it's a good example of "Why we can't have nice things"
Democracy is the process in which we determine the government that we deserveNot every man experiences discrimination based on their gender. I'm male and also a visible minority. I've experienced FAR FAR more discrimination based on the latter than the former.
and that's how Equestria was made!Facts are darned this. And the fact is women get preferential treatment in the justice system in everything from criminal convictions to child custody.
The article you linked isn't about people being wrongfully convicted because of gender. It's about harsher sentences which is pretty unlikely to apply to me because I don't plan on committing a crime in my life. Your argument may have merit but the linked article simply doesn't apply.
Besides, I'm not going to feel sorry for criminals that receive 20-40% more jail time and it's ludicrous that you'd expect me to think so.
and that's how Equestria was made!I can tell you that a man will always receive a harsher sentence. Its a lot easier for the defense to play up the woman as being less guilty and in some way screwing over the male element of the crime.
Just because a person is a criminal doesn't mean they should be treated unfairly, they deserve a fair sentence.
edited 8th Jan '11 3:14:11 PM by saladofstones3
Which I never said it did, don't put words in my mouth.
Alright, let's break the argument down and paraphrase it.
I said: "The odds of me being accused of a crime and getting an unfair sentence because of my gender are lower than the odds of me being struck by lightning."
You said:"You so sure about that?" and linked to the article in question implying something was wrong with my point. I said the article didn't apply to me because I didn't have plans on committing a crime and the article didn't have anything to do with wrongful conviction.
I still feel no sympathy for criminals but I recognize that logically the justice system is more concerned with punishment than with prevention and rehabilitation which is far from a gender issue. Start fixing that and any gender issue regarding convicted criminals becomes a lot less significant.
and that's how Equestria was made!I'd say it's not so much dying as women are moving into masculine roles, so men are, as a reaction, moving into more feminine roles. So long as the average man and the average woman are different from each other in certain ways, masculinity (and femininity) will be alive and well. But I think that the labels "masculine" and "feminine" should be descriptive rather than prescriptive. In other words, it's okay to comment on how men and women differ on average, so long as these comments aren't used to pressure men and women to fit into their gender role.
But I do see a bit of a men's issue in masculinity being devalued. By which I mean, men who are involved masculine things such as sports or fraternities being negatively stereotyped as Dumb Muscle. But I think that overall, a man will generally catch more flack for being "too feminine" by society's standards than for being "too masculine."
Any identity politics can go this way. Unless you oppose all identity politics in general on these grounds, this is no reason to oppose all masculists.
edited 8th Jan '11 6:00:58 PM by LeighSabio
"All pain is a punishment, and every punishment is inflicted for love as much as for justice." — Joseph De Maistre.I've always been rather irked at the idea that domestic abuse is only one way, and if a woman abuses a man then it's not abuse.
I dunno, I'm all for some more equality for men, as occasionally we get shafted for arbitrary reasons, but a masculist movement? That just seems petty and spiteful, particularly some of the extreme views previously mentioned.
edited 8th Jan '11 6:07:55 PM by MarkVonLewis
True, which is why I dislike identity politics in almost all its particulars. I dislike anything that cannot prove its own existence is warranted, and thus far (despite SOME evidence) I have not seen enough to suggest that masculism is either neccesary nor desirable.
It is abuse, it just gets reported less, I have to deal with it in one of my voluntary jobs.
edited 8th Jan '11 6:10:08 PM by JosefBugman
Most sexism against men comes from machismo which is very much self-inflicted as an aggregate of the gender.
You are aware not every man is a MANLY MAN MAN MAN who pumps iron and punches people with his beard?
Half-Life: Dual Nature, a crossover story of reasonably sized proportions.@Leigh: No, it's whining about how women have more rights than they do.
Manly: Kicking an ambassador down a well because he demands earth and water as a symbol of submission.
“Love is the eternal law whereby the universe was created and is ruled.” — St. BernardIt wasn't the kick that was manly, it was his defiance against the order to submit that was manly. Women can do that and not be considered manly, without stigma. People forget that masculine values don't always apply negatively to women.
"True story, I came when I read Scrye's story, and so did everyone within five miles." —OOZE

So, what do you think of the masculist movement?
I think that men's issues are important in today's society, where there is about the same amount discrimination against both sexes. For instance, I don't believe in circumcision, I think there should be shelters for men who experience domestic violence like there are for women, I think that a woman forcing a man to penetrate her should be considered rape by law, and that prostate cancer research needs more funding. I also think that historical atrocities against men tend to get glossed over in favor of focusing on the historical power of men.
That said, I'm hesitant to identify with the masculist movement. A lot of the more radical masculists seem to want women to return to rigid gender roles, are mistrustful of anything feminist, or maintain that there is no discrimination against women in society. I also think that the "Tomboys are cool, effeminate boys are Butt Monkeys" Double Standard is at least as sexist against women as it is against men, because it portrays femininity as a weakness/character flaw.
"All pain is a punishment, and every punishment is inflicted for love as much as for justice." — Joseph De Maistre.