I'm backing out of this discussion, but I wll leave this last bit of smartassitude:
Imperialism of other countries isn't the topic at hand. I never threw around that any other nation was somehow better despite taking the same actions, quite the opposite.
I also didn't say it was impossible to handle Imperialism in a way that works out for good in the long run. Hell, if this planet is going to survive, we'll require a united government soon. America in the present is a lot better about how it handles foreign affairs, yes, and that's awesome. They still want power, just like every other nation except maybe Switzerland.
Guantanamo Bay. 'Nuff Said.
edited 9th Jan '11 5:23:20 PM by Diamonnes
My name is Cu Chulainn. Beside the raging sea I am left to moan. Sorrow I am, for I brought down my only son.Anyway, no that's not how you become an Empire.
Sauce.
edited 9th Jan '11 4:57:17 PM by Deboss
Fight smart, not fair.^Is a mighty fine place, thank you.
"True story, I came when I read Scrye's story, and so did everyone within five miles." —OOZEBarkey, he's just mad that Gitmo was taken completely by enlisted personnel.
"True story, I came when I read Scrye's story, and so did everyone within five miles." —OOZEI thought it was getting closed-off?
The point wasn't to fight communism, the point was to keep the southern countries subjugated. If you pay attention you will notice how the USA and USSR mostly had an agreement to screw over everyone else for the sake of maintaining their position, by separating them in blocks and having them fight each other. Democratic "not so commie" leaders weren't subservient to either superpower, and worked for the good of their people if only nominally, hence they got the short end of the stick while actual dictators were Karma Houdini.
edited 9th Jan '11 5:21:20 PM by RawPower
'''YOU SEE THIS DOG I'M PETTING? THAT WAS COURAGE WOLF.Cute, isn't he?I think it was just the prison.
"True story, I came when I read Scrye's story, and so did everyone within five miles." —OOZESo, apart from the prison, what is Gitmo?
'''YOU SEE THIS DOG I'M PETTING? THAT WAS COURAGE WOLF.Cute, isn't he?A Navy and Marine Corps base.
"True story, I came when I read Scrye's story, and so did everyone within five miles." —OOZEWe gave up slaves. It was a long argument, though. But no, we don't take over people and use them for our purposes. Recently? We gave the Canal back, on time, just like we said we would, even though it would have been nice to have, and there's exactly fuck-all anyone could have done about it if we had kept it.
The US owned a canal?
EDIT: Actually I retract all that. Which canal?
Further EDIT: Ah.
edited 9th Jan '11 5:28:07 PM by GameChainsaw
The term "Great Man" is disturbingly interchangeable with "mass murderer" in history books.But dude, you don't understand! We bought Alaska. When will we ever stop!?
^To Panama.
edited 9th Jan '11 5:27:37 PM by Scrye
"True story, I came when I read Scrye's story, and so did everyone within five miles." —OOZEWe *already* have stopped. At least twice, maybe more. Once at the end of WWII, when we could have made everyone our bitch, and nuked them if they didn't like it. Once when the USSR fell, and we could have said, "Okay now's our chance to make the commies suck it hard", but we didn't. We have a good track record for stopping, and letting up when we could just rock on. Mostly we just want to be left alone, and if the dipshits hadn't 9/11'd us, we wouldn't be over there kicking ass now. Japan got to glow in the dark for Pearl Harbor, you'd think people would take a hint, but noooooo.
So, the prison, it's closing off, but Barkey says we still need it?
'''YOU SEE THIS DOG I'M PETTING? THAT WAS COURAGE WOLF.Cute, isn't he?Yeah, Panama. The US basically went to Panama one day and said, "Even though you are a total n00b, and we could pwn you anytime, we won't. We'll send our dudz and our Top Gear and we'll build the canal, and to pay us back, we'll run it for a while, but then we'll give it back and we'll go back home" And that's what we did, even though the canal would be nice to have, and no one could make us keep the deal. Not very Imperial of us, oops.
edited 9th Jan '11 6:14:55 PM by wizardbear
Except Panama existing was due to Theodore Roosevelt and pals orchestrating its splitting off off Colombia. Obviously the USA wouldn't have had such an easy time imposing their will on the bigger country, so they caused and backed the creation of the state that is nicknamed "the cheapest whore in America". As in, the continent.
Do your research. "America to the Americans
" indeed.
American may be imperialistic in many ways, but if it is, I think we run a damn decent empire. And I don't think the entire world hates us, or that karma is waiting to smack us in the ass. If you think we're bad, just wait until China takes over, or worse yet, Russia. Or wait until they start World War III. One day people will look back on the American era and wish they had us back.
Or, with luck, none of that will happen, and everyone will develop into first nation status. And our empire will get absorbed. By the rest of you...
edited 9th Jan '11 7:27:12 PM by DeMarquis
I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.Except Quebec. Because fuck Quebec.
"True story, I came when I read Scrye's story, and so did everyone within five miles." —OOZEMaybe my favorite example of gene-engineered Badass.

This is just it. Subjugating other nations just isn't in Americas lifeblood. Ruthless capitalistic exploitation, they're maybe capable of. On a bad day. But on the other hand, they have traditions of freedom and national independence for the nations they interact with. "Freedom" is a serious word in America, and not just for Americans.
Does this sound like a country out to bring the world to heel? Are their any Americans who care to contradict me when I say that America and permanently occupying other nations for the purpose of economic exploitation are two ideas which do not go together?
The term "Great Man" is disturbingly interchangeable with "mass murderer" in history books.