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Kotomikun Since: May, 2014
#51876: Dec 16th 2014 at 5:26:38 PM

[up][up][up] Given its strong connections to Faust, which was written by a stuffy old folklorist hundreds of years ago and is therefore studied in school... yeah, definitely. Easily a sufficiently high-quality example of the kind of story that literature nerds like.

In fairness, though, they don't focus on older stuff just because Older Is Better, but also because things that have been around for hundreds of years have been discussed and deconstructed to death, providing endless teaching reference material. With Madoka, we're still busy semi-coherently arguing over whether Homura did nothing wrong.

GlennMagusHarvey Since: Jan, 2001
#51877: Dec 16th 2014 at 5:44:55 PM

/me sits in corner insisting that Homura was right and the setting was wrong

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#51878: Dec 16th 2014 at 5:49:03 PM

Did anyone ever make a video with "You give love a bad name" playing over Homura's ascension to devilhood?

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#51879: Dec 16th 2014 at 5:52:32 PM

No, but they should.

One Strip! One Strip!
LDragon2 Since: Dec, 2011
#51880: Dec 16th 2014 at 5:58:56 PM

So does anyone have any thoughts on the points brought up by the MAL users?

Sterok Since: Apr, 2012
#51881: Dec 16th 2014 at 6:21:47 PM

Nobody cares. Not after you've brought up the same general points dozens of times.

I am still curious as to what Madoka's long-term influence will be. The only shows I've seen that obviously take from it are Daybreak Illusion and Wixoss. Some people say Yuki Yuna, but I don't see it. But anyway, has there been an uptick in cute girls suffering? I could see that being Madoka's lasting influence.

LDragon2 Since: Dec, 2011
#51882: Dec 16th 2014 at 6:58:24 PM

I think that, like The Matrix, it will be hard for audiences to go back to the traditional upbeat and colorful MG shows after Madoka reversed that trend.

Heck, we are already sort of seeing its influence in those shows that you mentioned, and with the franchise being a huge success, don't be surprised to see more examples of Follow the Leader. Whether or not this is good is up for debate.

What say you guys? Should more shows take cues from Madoka?

GlennMagusHarvey Since: Jan, 2001
#51883: Dec 16th 2014 at 7:05:58 PM

The notion of "darkness" in magical girl shows is nothing new. The only thing that's really unique to Madoka Magica is purposefully juxtaposing those "darker" elements with trying to cast the show's starting concept in a way that's very stereotypical for children's shows.

That said, the magical girl genre has for a long time been primarily a genre aimed at children, and will continue to be so.

The idea of introducing darker elements to a magical girl show will also continue to be explored, mostly by magical girl shows aimed at older audiences.

Rynnec Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#51884: Dec 16th 2014 at 7:11:59 PM

Ever since Madoka, I judge the quality of each Magical Girl series by how metal they are.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#51885: Dec 16th 2014 at 7:37:26 PM

Well, lets be honest.

The Pretty Cure (name a group, cause it doesn't matter) would have just beat the shit out of Kyuubey, Walpurgis Night, and Despair, cause that's how they roll.

Madoka was the show where this explicitly would not work, at least not without a monumental sacrifice that made the victory extremely bittersweet.

The Power of Friendship meant nothing, there was nothing left of the original person and god help you if you're a Idiot Hero or a Justice freak, cause you'll be experiencing Black-and-White Insanity soon enough.

edited 16th Dec '14 7:37:42 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
Kotomikun Since: May, 2014
#51886: Dec 16th 2014 at 8:04:33 PM

[up][up] Now seems like a good time to plug Yuuki Yuuna wa Yuusha de aru, the current Madoka Follow the Leader-er that as of episode 10 has taken several levels in metalness.

(Seriously, though, it's good. Lacks the concentrated finesse of Madoka but twists the tropes in its own unique way. Also, magic smartphones.)

Sterok Since: Apr, 2012
#51887: Dec 16th 2014 at 9:27:42 PM

You know what I want? More MG shows like the old Sailor Moon or Tokyo Mew Mew. A single team that mostly gets along, has lighthearted fillertastic adventures, and is just fun to watch. I wish big 50 episode anime still existed. Pretty Cure is nice, but something new and different would be appreciated. Any recommendations along those lines?

How long does it take for a popular anime to permeate among the industry anyway?

Kotomikun Since: May, 2014
#51888: Dec 16th 2014 at 10:09:59 PM

[up] I was about to say I know of no such thing, but actually the upcoming Houkago no Pleiades looks like a good bet. (It's a series-sized remake of the mini-version from a few years ago.) Seems almost completely angst-free and whimsical, and so far none of the... stuff... that sometimes sneaks into this genre.

I can't say I want sprawling 50-episode shows to make a comeback, though. I barely have the patience to make it through one season.

Webidolchiu94 Since: Jul, 2010
#51889: Dec 16th 2014 at 10:13:46 PM

Prism Nana is the alleged sequel to Madoka, I think. Right? It's about the second part of Faust or something.

Kotomikun Since: May, 2014
#51890: Dec 16th 2014 at 11:09:02 PM

[up] Information about that is so sparse and ever-changing that I can't tell if you're joking, and either way you might be correct. (Current status seems to be "it's a freaking pachinko machine?!") The sequel to Faust sounds about as weird as those promos...

Webidolchiu94 Since: Jul, 2010
#51891: Dec 16th 2014 at 11:25:00 PM

Oh, I wasn't joking. And, honestly, it's made by SHAFT, who keeps giving us themselves by delaying that series. I mean, that looked like a witch's barrier to me. I was excited. But it's not out and it's been a few years since I first saw the promo.

AceOfScarabs I am now a shiny stone~ from Singapore Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
I am now a shiny stone~
#51892: Dec 17th 2014 at 4:56:32 AM

It's still a good outing. Also I still have my Kyubey "Trust me" T-shirt [lol]

The three finest things in life are to splat your enemies, drive them from their turf, and hear their lamentations as their rank falls!
lazybanshee Bean Sídhe from your nightmares Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Bean Sídhe
#51893: Dec 17th 2014 at 5:03:49 AM

There are people right now in the PMMM fandom, or even on this very forum, who insist that PMMM was the first magical girl show ever to have any dark themes in it, making it unique in that regard.

How does this make you feel?

edited 17th Dec '14 5:54:03 AM by lazybanshee

I joined the police just to kill people.
LDragon2 Since: Dec, 2011
#51894: Dec 17th 2014 at 5:13:56 AM

Just another case of Older Than They Think.

Though I do agree that Madoka is one of the first shows of this kind to gain such wide appeal and acclaim, and I also feel that it does this whole thing much bested than other similar shows, and like The Matrix, incorporates all of these influences to create some new and refreshing.

GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#51895: Dec 17th 2014 at 5:21:21 AM

To be honest I don't believe that Madoka was the first dark mahou shoujo as much as it is the first dark mahou shoujo to become popular. Sailor nothing and Magical Girl Hunters (I didn't finish either) by Twoflower were fairly dark and for that matter Cardcaptor Sakura, Utena and even the Sailor Moon manga of all things were dark. Madoka was the first dark mahou shoujo anime to become popular outside of its own niche even if you aren't familiar anime and/or its tropes, Madoka can still strike a cord with you. Madoka is hardly all that dark although it did leave you with a sense of despair and suffering.

"Fan, a Mega Man character."
rikalous World's Cutest Direwolf from Upscale Mordor (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
World's Cutest Direwolf
#51896: Dec 17th 2014 at 5:27:16 AM

[up][up][up]I've read/watched all of three magical girl things and I know better than that.

Nanoha is not exactly obscure, and it had that whole child abuse angle with Precia and then Season 2 had betrayal and good people doing awful things to innocents because they think it's necessary.

[up]Twoflower's stuff doesn't really count, I'd say. It's basically fanfiction, not that that's an insult.

I don't recall any darkness in Card Captor. It was a sugary hugbox with no actual villains, which is also not an insult.

higurashimerlin Since: Aug, 2012
#51897: Dec 17th 2014 at 7:42:28 AM

I wonder how a rational fic would go? Not necessary with the girls as being super smart but actually thinking like human beings. I mean most of us guest that Kyubey was evil from episode 1. You think they ask some more question I mean that is what I would do in their place if a alien ask me to fight "monsters".

When life gives you lemons, burn life's house down with the lemons.
AceOfScarabs I am now a shiny stone~ from Singapore Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
I am now a shiny stone~
#51898: Dec 17th 2014 at 7:43:15 AM

Original Generation Futari wa Precure actually had the end of Existance as a result of the imbalance in the powers of Darkness and Light.

Revolutionary Utena had some really mature themes.

Princess Tutu had a bittersweet end, although Drosselmeyer's work was stopped.

I believe there are others.

The three finest things in life are to splat your enemies, drive them from their turf, and hear their lamentations as their rank falls!
majoraoftime (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#51899: Dec 17th 2014 at 8:12:13 AM

Some people say Yuki Yuna, but I don't see it.

Really? It's got Magical girls involved in an exploitative, cyclical system which involves consuming them in order to combat some sort of cosmic horror. I'd there's there's some influence somewhere.

stephanreiken Since: May, 2010
#51900: Dec 17th 2014 at 9:29:13 AM

I don't remember much from when I was a wee lad but I do recall Sailor Moon having some dark themes.


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