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An annoying bit of developer terminology

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JakesBrain Since: Jul, 2010
#1: Jan 6th 2011 at 7:55:15 PM

When it comes to discussion of gaming consoles, a phrase that comes up quite often is "third-party developer". Now, I understand that this refers to developers outside of the company that manufactures the console in question, as I understand that "first-party" usually means stuff put together in-house — games made by Nintendo for the Wii being the most obvious example.

What Just Bugs Me is the lack of a cognate for "second-party" developers. How, precisely, did that particular bit of terminology get skipped? Why don't we use that term to refer to what are now called third parties?

I imagine this could date back to when the NES/SNES and all the variations on the Megadrive/Genesis dominated the market, with the lazy-but-obvious parallel to politics, and the "third parties" being all the game developers other than Nintendo and Sega. Why, if this is the case, has the terminology then carried over into an era where it's clearly no longer accurate? Granted, I can think of one easy answer to the question (simple laziness), but it doesn't stop me from being irritated on this point.

RocketDude Since: May, 2009
#2: Jan 6th 2011 at 7:57:14 PM

First-Party and Third-Party aren't exclusive to video games, though, they are actually part of Legalese.

Though, I have always wondered what a Second-Party would be...

Scardoll Burn Since: Nov, 2010
Burn
#3: Jan 6th 2011 at 7:57:37 PM

EDIT: Nevermind.

edited 6th Jan '11 7:57:55 PM by Scardoll

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Tzetze DUMB from a converted church in Venice, Italy Since: Jan, 2001
Cider The Final ECW Champion from Not New York Since: May, 2009 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
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#5: Jan 6th 2011 at 8:06:24 PM

I was going to explain what the linked wikipedia article above me says.

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storyyeller More like giant cherries from Appleloosa Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
More like giant cherries
#6: Jan 6th 2011 at 9:17:34 PM

I've never head second party developer before. I would have guessed that it referred to customers, and they don't make any games that reach the attention of anyone else.

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Ralphrius Unwinning Ranger from Neo-Holland Since: May, 2010
Unwinning Ranger
#7: Jan 7th 2011 at 12:03:21 AM

Ooh, I knew this one. Like said before, second-party are developer studios who do not own the consoles (like Nintendo or Sony) but still have a deal with a specific first-party developer.

Camelot's one, I think.

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Nyarly Das kann doch nicht sein! from Saksa Since: Feb, 2012
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#8: Jan 7th 2011 at 2:07:28 AM

So Game Freak, for example, is a Second-Party developer?

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Noelemahc Noodle Implements FTW! from Moscow, Russia Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
#9: Jan 7th 2011 at 2:32:21 AM

Apparently so. That would also mean that, say, the Halo games ended up as second-party games as far as the Box with the X is concerned. Not that it makes much difference in how you perceive the game, though.

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FreezairForALimitedTime Responsible adult from Planet Claire Since: Jan, 2001
Responsible adult
#10: Jan 7th 2011 at 9:38:59 AM

I've been hearing "Second-party" for ages. I think I first heard it in relationship to Rareware in their Nintendo days.

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Marioguy128 Geomancer from various galaxies Since: Jan, 2010
Geomancer
#11: Jan 7th 2011 at 9:41:34 AM

Alphadream is also a second party developer.

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Rebochan from Kalevala (Y2K) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#12: Jan 7th 2011 at 12:34:31 PM

So Game Freak, for example, is a Second-Party developer?

No, they're a subsidiary of Nintendo. As is Retro, which for some reason a lot of people don't get when they're clamoring for Metroid to get outsourced "again".

Insomniac is an example used in the article. Another would have been Rare during their N64 years, though Nintendo eventually bought them out entirely during that era and they ceased to be second-party.

Poochy.EXE from 127.0.0.1 Since: Jan, 2001
#13: Jan 7th 2011 at 12:44:06 PM

I think HAL (Kirby, Super Smash Bros, and Mother / Earthbound) also works as a good example of a second-party developer.

edited 7th Jan '11 12:44:28 PM by Poochy.EXE

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Rebochan from Kalevala (Y2K) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#14: Jan 7th 2011 at 1:03:06 PM

No, HAL is also a subsidiary wholly owned by Nintendo.

TheInferno |Y| = |X| Add 5 from probably on Earth Since: Jul, 2010
|Y| = |X| Add 5
#15: Jan 7th 2011 at 2:15:38 PM

Rebochan, this is from above wiki thing.

Strictly, the second party is the customer, however the term "second-party developer" is a common misnomer used in place of "subsidiary" in regards to the video game industry. Examples of subsidiaries include Game Freak and Hal Laboratory which are wholly owned by Nintendo, or Naughty Dog, which is owned by Sony.

Isn't just like 1st Person, 2nd person, and 3rd Person in stories? 1st person is the characters point of view ("I walk through the door"), third person is like some random person out of the scene's view ("Sir Tropesalot walked through the door"), and 2nd person is like cookbooks. ("You then mix a half cup of flour into the somethingorother")

edited 7th Jan '11 2:15:56 PM by TheInferno

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BaleFire Since: Dec, 2009
#17: Jan 7th 2011 at 4:16:08 PM

For the most part, Third Party.

edited 7th Jan '11 4:16:37 PM by BaleFire

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Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
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#18: Jan 7th 2011 at 5:01:37 PM

Valve are third-party, though some consider them to be "indie" developers. (Which, is third-party, but people don't seem to understand that...)

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KoolKidJoe Wario Meister from United States Since: Jan, 2001
Wario Meister
#19: Jan 7th 2011 at 6:10:50 PM

User-generated content/levels is more like the traditional second-party definition, I guess. "You" made the game.

But the gaming industry's always been a bit odd with nomenclature, with things like 2.5D. I can understand second-party coming as a term to straddle first- and second-party terms.

Rebochan from Kalevala (Y2K) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#20: Jan 7th 2011 at 7:03:04 PM

[up][up][up][up][up] ...I'm not sure what you're trying to say. The part of the wiki entry you quoted specifically says that both HAL and Game Freak are subsidiaries of Nintendo and not second-parties despite commonly being mislabeled as such.

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