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UltimatelySubjective Since: Jun, 2011
#1201: May 19th 2012 at 4:29:41 AM

I think I'll ask here. Seems like the right thread, although I'm talking Engrish and Separated by a Common Language.

Basically, which dictionary are the Japanese using to steal their English from? I mean, British English? U.S English? New New Zealand English!?

For instance, they use the British version of Pants (underwear) but I'm sure I've heard some U.S. usages for other things.

If it was a pop-cultural thing I'd expect it to be almost entirely U.S. usage...

Or is it completely random?

Fawriel Since: Jan, 2001
#1202: May 19th 2012 at 5:06:57 AM

"Random" seems like a safe bet. It's not like they stuck to one language and extracted words from it - there's a bunch of loan words from other languages, too. Many of them are older than America's monolopy on Western pop-culture, too. Hilariously enough, the Japanese word for "England" is "igirisu", which comes the Portuguese "inglês".

Zersk o-o from Columbia District, BNA Since: May, 2010
o-o
#1203: May 19th 2012 at 5:07:16 AM

May be British English, since a lot of romaji words don't have a rhotic r. That might just be Japanese being all syllable-y and stuff, though. :p

^ Or that. :p

edited 19th May '12 5:07:33 AM by Zersk

ᐅᖃᐅᓯᖅ ᐊᑕᐅᓯᖅ ᓈᒻᒪᔪᐃᑦᑐᖅ
dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#1204: May 19th 2012 at 6:17:44 AM

I have been learning Japanese for about a month and now the language does not feel like a total gibberish.

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
Fawriel Since: Jan, 2001
dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#1206: May 19th 2012 at 7:11:17 AM

What are you referring to?

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
Fawriel Since: Jan, 2001
#1207: May 19th 2012 at 8:11:49 AM

The language not feeling like gibberish.

KuroBaraHime ☆♥☆ Since: Jan, 2011
☆♥☆
#1208: May 19th 2012 at 12:36:55 PM

I've see loanwords taken from American & British English, Portuguese, French, and German.

UltimatelySubjective Since: Jun, 2011
#1209: May 22nd 2012 at 6:16:24 AM

Toilet! That's another one they took from English English. If it was American English it would be "Restroom" right?

Anyway that aside, I was wondering how someone (especially someone without a computer) would look up Kanji?

If you see a character, how are you supposed to know what it is? Do you have to hear it first? But if there was a dictionary, how would it even be ordered? Katakana and Hirogana don't even seem to lend themselves to being linear.

edited 22nd May '12 6:17:16 AM by UltimatelySubjective

aranamor Cutlery War Veteran from Florida Since: Apr, 2011
Cutlery War Veteran
#1210: May 22nd 2012 at 7:59:52 AM

I've just started seriously learning, and for some reason it makes total and complete sense to me in terms of grammar, even though I'm extremely Eloquent in My Native Tongue, american/hiberno-irish english. The writing systems still confuse the hell out of me, though.

T Vtropes is NOT Wikipedia, stop trying to make it that. I'm attacking the darkness!
Stormtroper from Little Venice Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: I-It's not like I like you, or anything!
#1211: May 22nd 2012 at 8:18:45 AM

[up][up] They can also be ordered by radical and number of strokes.

And that's how I ended up in the wardrobe. It Just Bugs Me!
UltimatelySubjective Since: Jun, 2011
#1212: Apr 20th 2013 at 10:33:26 PM

Haha! No longer shall I be at the mercy of translators!

Well, okay I'm still pretty low level.

But, that's Hirogana and Katakana mastered... Kinda. Now I just have to practise and gradually learn Kanji.

I'm thinking of finding some raw shounen manga and seeing how I go.

I know some words from anime but not a lot.

I am somewhat unsure of what the character that looks like る or  ろ with a vertical line through them are supposed to be though. And also, if I see a long dash-like character, would that always be 一 (ichi or one)?

For example, if you have this wouldn't it just be ramen? Not sure why it says ラーメン unless it's supposed to indicate lengthening of a syllable or something?

Meklar from Milky Way Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
#1213: Apr 20th 2013 at 11:19:49 PM

By the way, I don't know if this is at all useful to anybody, but a while back I created a Javascript widget for practicing katakana and hiragana. It's online here. Sorry if it seems pretentious of me to plug my own stuff, but it seems relevant and I actually found I was learning pretty well by using the widget.

For example, if you have this wouldn't it just be ramen? Not sure why it says ラーメン unless it's supposed to indicate lengthening of a syllable or something?
I gather (from the observations I've made) that the dash figure (the ー) indeed indicates that the preceding syllable's vowel sound is to be extended. So I guess 'ラーメン' could be read like 'ラアメン' if you wanted to be really literal about it. If you look at the Wikipedia page for ramen, the romanization has a bar above the A, indicating an extended vowel sound.

*waits for an expert to come tell me I'm dead wrong*

Join my forum game!
fancywig ⋆ ⋆ ⋆ from heckie Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
⋆ ⋆ ⋆
#1214: Apr 20th 2013 at 11:34:06 PM

It's been said that the Japanese language is the second most hardest language to learn, and depending on your tone of voice, the meaning of what you're saying can change it. Might be wrong, but whatever. I'm thinking of taking it in the next five years, or in college. Seems like something I could get into...

GO AHEAD .... MR. JOEHSTUR .......
Fawriel Since: Jan, 2001
#1215: Apr 21st 2013 at 1:17:53 AM

I am somewhat unsure of what the character that looks like る or  ろ with a vertical line through them are supposed to be though.
I guess you're talking about "ne" and "wa", respectively?

And the dash is indeed used to lengthen a syllable in katakana. It can be hard to tell it apart from the ichi kanji. It's a lot clearer when the writing is vertical, because then the line is vertical, too, while ichi isn't.

It's a good thing this thread was revived. I was planning to practice actually using the language because my current skills at that are pretty embarrassing. So, who else is around anymore who's actually proficient at the language besides Hime?

Meklar from Milky Way Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
#1216: Apr 21st 2013 at 1:39:50 AM

It's been said that the Japanese language is the second most hardest language to learn, and depending on your tone of voice, the meaning of what you're saying can change it.
From what I've heard, japanese is not a tonal language, and so tone doesn't matter nearly as much as in, say, mandarin chinese or malay. Moreover, the exact usage of the japanese pitch accent changes depending on where in Japan you're from (and in some places they don't use it at all).

Moreover, I've heard it said that although written japanese is among the most difficult written languages to learn, spoken japanese is actually fairly easy, at least for english speakers.

Join my forum game!
UltimatelySubjective Since: Jun, 2011
#1217: Apr 21st 2013 at 1:46:13 AM

[up][up] "Ne" and "Wa"...

Okay that sounds right and makes me look stupid, but I swear there were stylisation issues in what I was reading, making them more resemble Ro and Ru.

So, are any of the digraph kana tricky to remember, or are there too few to worry about? Is this all I need to know?

edited 21st Apr '13 1:46:26 AM by UltimatelySubjective

KuroBaraHime ☆♥☆ Since: Jan, 2011
☆♥☆
#1218: Apr 21st 2013 at 2:09:34 AM

The ゃゅょ digraphs you linked are the only ones you need to know for actually Japanese words. There are some more for katakana foreign words.

The commons ones you'd need to know being ティ (ti), ディ (di), ファ (fa), フィ (fi), フェ (fe), フォ (fo), ウィ (wi), ウェ (we), and ウォ (wo).

Jigaboo pink from atop a hill Since: Jun, 2011
pink
#1219: Apr 21st 2013 at 5:16:34 AM

I'm plowing through Kanjidamage. At 485~ Started a week ago.

[up] Are you self-taught? How long did it take? surprised

edited 21st Apr '13 5:22:35 AM by Jigaboo

I did naht.
KuroBaraHime ☆♥☆ Since: Jan, 2011
☆♥☆
#1220: Apr 21st 2013 at 10:39:27 AM

I took 3 and a half years of Japanese in school. After that it's self taught. I'd say it took until last year that I was pretty good at it and could usually understand stuff.

I wouldn't say I'm fluent since I still come across words I don't know and I don't think I could really hold a conversation in Japanese.

Jigaboo pink from atop a hill Since: Jun, 2011
pink
#1221: Apr 21st 2013 at 7:45:42 PM

Still cool.evil grin

これで私と離れずにすんだと思って安心してる…

What does this line translate to? There seems to be a lot of controversy over it.

I did naht.
Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#1222: Apr 22nd 2013 at 5:30:48 AM

"With that, (you) feel relieved that you lived away from me."

That's just my quick reading of it.

edited 22nd Apr '13 5:35:34 AM by Clarste

KuroBaraHime ☆♥☆ Since: Jan, 2011
☆♥☆
#1223: Apr 22nd 2013 at 10:51:09 AM

I'd say something like.

"With this, [you/he] can rest easy thinking that [you/he] finished with me close by..."

edited 22nd Apr '13 11:10:57 AM by KuroBaraHime

Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#1224: Apr 22nd 2013 at 11:16:06 AM

Damn I suck. Some context might be nice though.

KuroBaraHime ☆♥☆ Since: Jan, 2011
☆♥☆
#1225: Apr 22nd 2013 at 11:20:30 AM

It appears to be from an early chapter of Shingeki No Kyojin.


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