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AegisP Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man
#1476: Mar 27th 2022 at 4:01:20 AM

I dont think they go away they just get told to fuck off.

As long as this flower is in my heart. My Strength will flow without end.
32ndfreeze Since: Mar, 2012
#1477: Mar 27th 2022 at 4:37:37 AM

I'm definitely going to grab it because Cross has been on my "I should probably get around to playing it eventually" list for ages.

But the massive party is something I don't expect to like too much.

In recent years I've come to realize I think less than 7 or 8 party members with lots of development and/or uniqueness in play style is my favorite way to go about things.

Mega_zxa Since: Mar, 2015
#1478: Mar 27th 2022 at 5:23:21 AM

If I recall correctly humans can use magic, since the people of Zeal could use magic before they found Lavos and started using him as the source of their magic. It is even said that your characters use magic whose power comes from the Sun. Also humans coming from Lavos is weird and nonsensical since humans existed before Lavos. Ayla who is a party member was alive before Lavos crashed on the planet.

Edit: You know a funny thought occurred to me. You know how the dwarves have a smoke spewing tank. How many tries do you think the dwarves had to go through before they go it right. Cause I wondering if the reason that the marsh dies when you kill the hydra is because the dwarves screwed up the marsh in their attempts to build the tank and the hydra was the clean up for what the dwarves were doing. Meaning that if the dwarves hadn't been building tanks or actually knew what they were doing their marsh would have survived.

Edited by Mega_zxa on Mar 27th 2022 at 5:32:14 AM

SteamKnight Since: Jun, 2018
#1479: Mar 27th 2022 at 5:30:28 AM

The problems with the characters could be ameliorated if they also took another thing from Suikoden. I personally the element system is a good idea and more customizable and involving than the rune system from Suikoden with more polish and attunement like it needs to do more than the usual standard rpg effects. (The trap ones are good example of something special. I never really used it that much, though.) Changing the battlefield’s elemental effects is a good idea and they should take it further. The battlefield elemental level is good stuff. They also already have a good destination from the elemental “order combo” feature that you need to do to execute Chrono Cross, but it need to be less annoying and not easily disrupted by the enemies. I mean it could be this game’s unique version of unite tech. (There are some effort here in combining elements but it’s still not good enough and need to be more.) My definiton of combo is just make everyone cast elements from the same color, stacking the level, and cast the high-levelled ones or summon for massive damage.

The game could be better if it take the numerous battle system further like the option of which kind of attack you made could be more engaging if it could result in a combo and not just buff the ACC of heavier attacks. (This one is a bit wishful thinking, though. Technological limitations and all that. As long as they take the elemental aspect further and better, I’m fine, though)

If only they also take the base-building feature from Suikoden, like I don’t know Serge could found and take over some ruins or fortress that exist out of time or something like Dr. Who’s base. And just like Suikoden, the more party members you recruit, the base changes and improves, becoming more alive. Not only can it easily give more moments of further characterizations, it make you feel that recruiting all those characters even the lol random ones feel more meaningful. It actually does something more than adding some combat puppets that you probably never pull out of your extra-dimensional storage.

Basically, if the game doesn’t want to go full Suikoden and still want to be more of a “standard” JRPG, it should focus to be a good “standard” JRPG.

The unfortunate thing is that thanks to the game’s negative reception. A lot of systems of this game are probably thrown away and never given a chance to show its trus potential in another game because who want to take something from a game that is considered to be a disappointment.

Edited by SteamKnight on Mar 27th 2022 at 7:39:22 PM

I'm not as witty as I think I am. It's a scientifically-proven fact.
MightyMatilda Mr. Clueless from New Jersey, USA Since: Jan, 2015
Mr. Clueless
#1480: Mar 27th 2022 at 7:40:44 AM

[up]Negative reception? Sure, it's hated on this site and a few other places, but it sold a lot of copies, was universally beloved by the gaming press, and receives high audience scores on basically every website that does that.

De Romanīs, lingua Latina gloriosa non fuī.
AegisP Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man
#1481: Mar 27th 2022 at 7:53:25 AM

And even the hate seems to be a minority of really vocal whiners that we havent gotten around to actually curating.

As long as this flower is in my heart. My Strength will flow without end.
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#1482: Mar 27th 2022 at 7:55:11 AM

You are in fact ignoring criticism that doesnt fit your "They dont like it because It's not Chrono Trigger 2" Narrative.

The first criticism that came up outside of that (the 40-odd different characters mostly being worthless) my response was literally "that's true and it's one of the biggest problems with the game". I'm not sure what you think I'm ignoring.

There's also the Marbule demi-humans subplot, with the Sage of Marbule IIRC outright telling that he considers all humans jerkasses

...you mean the subplot that ultimately ends with humans and demi-humans working together for the common good of all? The one where the son of a human and a demi-human helps bridge the gap between the two groups and it ends with them living harmoniously together? "The Sage thinks that all humans are assholes and coexistence is impossible" is the starting point, everything about that subplot is about getting past that attitude and improving relations between humans and demi-humans.

And there's the Reptites / Dragonians subplot, which (as the page here says) paints humans as an unnatural evolution due to exposure to Lavos, effectively stating that humans can't live in harmony with nature (as opposed to the Dragonians).

I don't think we're supposed to uncritically take the dragonian's word that dragonians are superior to humans because they're more in tune with nature when the dragonians are using it as justification for wiping out humanity. Like with the dwarves, just because someone says it, that doesn't mean we should accept it as unvarnished truth.

As diddyknux mentioned, Lavos did not cause human evolution. Lavos destroyed the reptites (but only like, as a meteor that did them in like the dinosaurs, not anything to do with Lavos's weirder properties), which made room for humanity (which already existed and was in conflict with the reptites) to inherit the earth. Honestly, dragonians blaming Lavos for making humans "unnatural" feels mostly like sour grapes. They were "supposed" to win, but Lavos's arrival allowed humans to thrive instead, which makes humanity badwrong for defying the "natural order" (reptite supremacy).

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#1483: Mar 27th 2022 at 8:05:23 AM

I also want to note that the Dragonians don’t really back up their own position. They appear to go for bioengineering to a large degree (we see very little of their tech, but while Fort Dragonia seems…relatively standard, Terra Tower is a lot weirder) which is less “we live in harmony with nature” and more “we literally bend and twist nature to our desires”. That’s not exactly an improvement over humanity’s “we’ll destroy nature if that suits our purposes,” at least in respect to living in harmony.

diddyknux (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#1484: Mar 27th 2022 at 8:22:00 AM

[up][up][up] That sounds... overly dismissive of unfavorable opinions towards the game. People who dislike Cross give their reasons, but I don't feel like any of it (in this thread at least) reads like they're trying to tell the people who LIKE Cross that they're wrong to.

[up][up] Cards on the table, I'm realizing now that I misunderstood the context when I said that. I thought what was being said was that Lavos was LITERALLY the reason humans evolved at all. I didn't understand it meant Lavos allowed the humans to evolve, because it killed off the Reptites when it arrived.

Edited by diddyknux on Mar 27th 2022 at 8:43:15 AM

AegisP Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man
#1485: Mar 27th 2022 at 8:25:40 AM

I know but it is also an exaggeration to say TV Tropes hates the game.

As long as this flower is in my heart. My Strength will flow without end.
MightyMatilda Mr. Clueless from New Jersey, USA Since: Jan, 2015
Mr. Clueless
#1486: Mar 27th 2022 at 8:28:54 AM

[up]Probably, though the YMMV page for Chrono Cross is bizarrely negative for a page about a popular PS 1 game.

De Romanīs, lingua Latina gloriosa non fuī.
SteamKnight Since: Jun, 2018
#1487: Mar 27th 2022 at 8:29:50 AM

[up]6X, [up]7X: If that's so, why is the Chrono franchise just suddenly go dead on its track after Chrono Cross? I mean the latest thing I see from this franchise other than this Radical Dreamers edition is some of their characters are appearing in that Another Eden mobile game. (Harle's french accent is hilariously horrible...)

The suppossedly closest successor to it in terms of gameplay and visual, Baten Kaitos also... kinda dead? I can't confirm how close its gameplay to Chrono Cross since I don't have Gamecube to get the feel personally, but the visual seem match based on all the materials I see.

Unless the sales is really breaking expectation, negative sentiments could sink a franchise. I mean remember Dm C from Devil May Cry? That one also sold well, but the enormous negative reception means that branch of a franchise is pretty much dead.

Hopefully, this means we can get a new and improved entry in this franchise.

Edited by SteamKnight on Mar 27th 2022 at 10:30:48 PM

I'm not as witty as I think I am. It's a scientifically-proven fact.
AegisP Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man
#1488: Mar 27th 2022 at 8:32:08 AM

Excluding the PC version, Chrono Trigger had shipped over 3.5 million copies worldwide by February 2018. By 2019, Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross had sold over 5.5 million units combined.

I dont know how much is that but it seems Chrono Chross sold at least 2 million units.

As long as this flower is in my heart. My Strength will flow without end.
Karxrida from Eureka, the Forbidden Land Since: May, 2012 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#1489: Mar 27th 2022 at 11:04:07 AM

2 million is pretty good for a PS1 game.

I think it's safe to say that Square didn't have any more ideas and just let the franchise rest. Which they should have done after Chrono Trigger anyway but whatever.

terumokou Pitiable and Illegally Dumped Object from In a bamboo forest full of bunnies, California Since: Sep, 2013 Relationship Status: Mu
Pitiable and Illegally Dumped Object
#1490: Mar 27th 2022 at 11:11:11 AM

Also didn't help that the staff ended up leaving Square to form Monolith Soft.

Burning love!
ObligatorySarcasm Since: Aug, 2016
#1491: Mar 27th 2022 at 11:26:30 AM

Square also seems rather distant and dismissive towards the series. Despite Trigger being a massive fan favorite and cherished game, Square doesn't DO anything with it outside of a DS port (which happens right at the time of that famous fangame which I always felt was weird timing for a coincidence, but that's just my rambling). Now, is it possible they can't do anything because of the art style coming from Toryiama? Maybe, and wouldn't be that surprising considering how many times Square is associated with legal hell with collaborations.

But they don't do anything with the series. Even if Smash: all major players were on board, so you would think that a Crono swordfighter Mii costume would be coming. But nope, literally nothing. And yet,, Square is very critical of fan content with the series. They act very protective on an IP that they don't care about.

-Witty line-
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#1492: Mar 27th 2022 at 11:31:01 AM

[up][up][up]2 million isn't enough for Square. Back when the DS version of Chrono Trigger came out, they told everyone that if they really wanted a new game, they'd better buy enough copies of DS to fill a ditch.

Not their exact words, but you get the idea.

Edited by kkhohoho on Mar 27th 2022 at 2:14:23 PM

MightyMatilda Mr. Clueless from New Jersey, USA Since: Jan, 2015
Mr. Clueless
#1493: Mar 27th 2022 at 11:35:56 AM

Or when Tomb Raider sold over 3 million copies in one month, yet Square-Enix considered it a disappointment.

De Romanīs, lingua Latina gloriosa non fuī.
KuroBaraHime ☆♥☆ Since: Jan, 2011
☆♥☆
#1494: Mar 27th 2022 at 11:56:46 AM

Chrono Cross unquestionably sold well for the time. Sales and expectations weren't as high back then. Square-Enix's more recent thing with having stupidly high expectation for sales only seems to really apply to the games made by their Western subsidiaries. They seem to have more reasonable expectations for the games they make themselves or by their Japanese subsidiaries/partners, it's only their games like Tomb Raider and Deus Ex they get disappointed about. I'm going to guess because the executives think that they should sell massive Call of Duty-like numbers just because they're Western AAA games that should appeal more to American tastes.

When it comes to the DS version of Chrono Trigger, it sold pretty okay, especially considering it's was likely cheaper than average to make being a port. But there was really no indication that Square had any ideas for a new Chrono game or any resources put into thinking up one, and many of the people who worked on Trigger and Cross had already left the country. My feeling is that the comment about it not selling enough was only said because they had no intention of making more Chrono games in the first place and he thought blaming the fans for would sound better for some reason. Like when Capcom said they cancelled Megaman Legends 3 because there wasn't enough fan interest, when it was actually cancelled because work on it was never greenlit in the first place and the team was left with no direction after Inafune left.

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#1495: Mar 27th 2022 at 1:51:45 PM

People occasionally point at that trademark Square Enix made and renewed a couple times for "Chrono Break" but that doesn't mean much at all, it just means they didn't want anyone else swooping in and grabbing that title in case they did decide to make a third game. It's like how Namco Bandai trademarks a ton of "Tales of [blank]" titles in case they want to use one, they generally don't actually intend to use all of them. It probably doesn't help that Square Enix didn't really have any reason to push for a Chrono Break game. Most of the core players in the series had moved on and the main writer was busy doing FFXI stuff for them.

Square (and Enix, for that matter) was also a lot less, uh, franchise-happy in the PS 1 period. They had a ton of one off titles they never bothered picking back up again and a few that got one sequel and nothing else with Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest being the main through-lines (and even Dragon Quest only got like...three main line games in that whole time period.)

Edited by Zendervai on Mar 27th 2022 at 4:52:55 AM

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#1496: Mar 27th 2022 at 3:15:16 PM

It's doing that right now. I'm not the one with the axe to grind here — I didn't bring it up to begin with, and I'd well and truly rather talk about literally anything else.

~Native Jovian, what do you like about Chrono Cross, what do you think are it's flaws as a whole?

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#1497: Mar 19th 2023 at 12:19:51 PM

Internet: Oh man, that Chrono Cross remaster was a bust! No 60 FPS? What a joke! They'll never fix it!

Square-Enix: Hold our beer.

While the community might have beat them to the punch on fixing The Radical Dreamers Edition two weeks after it came out, SE still went and patched the game substantially all the same!

Game Update

We have released a patch that adjusts the game's balance and improves its performance. We hope this allows you to have an even better time playing CHRONO CROSS: THE RADICAL DREAMERS EDITION.

Update Details ● Improved performance and optimised the game

The frame rate during battles is now set to a maximum of 60 fps* on all platforms.

  • The final battle on the Switch version will have a maximum frame rate of 30 fps. Please note that the speed of some Element animations may vary by platform, but this has no significant impact on the gameplay.
When using the hardware stated in the recommended specs for the Steam version, you can expect the game to run at an average of 60FPS (30FPS maximum outside of battle scenes). However, due to the rendering system used in the game, it is possible that when using certain graphics cards, some scenes with particularly high load may not run at 60FPS. The cards we have observed this occurring with are in the AMD Radeon RX 6000 series. ● Adjusted Pip's stats/Element Grid settings

If Pip obtains a level-growth star after evolving into one of his Devil, Angel, Demonic Beast, Holy Beast, or Divine Beast forms, his stats will grow* in accordance with his form.

  • This applies from the second level-growth star obtained post-evolution. Pip's pre-evolution growth rate will still apply on obtaining the first star post-evolution.

When starting a Continue+ file, if Pip's stats in your completed-game save data are better than the selected save data for Continue+, they will be carried over as they are.

When starting a Continue+ file, if Pip's form in your completed-game save data has unlocked more of his Element Grid than it has in the selected save data for Continue+, his Element Grid will be carried over as it is.

If a new Element Grid is unlocked later after Pip evolves into a new form, all its levels will be unlocked.

Example: If Pip is in his Demonic Beast form in your completed-game save data, he will carry over his Element Grid as it was even if he starts out in Normal form. Example: If you start a Continue+ game with completed-game save data with Pip in Demonic Beast form, evolve him into his Divine Beast form, and obtain level-growth stars, you will unlock the Element Grids for both his Demonic Beast and Divine Beast forms.

If Pip is evolved while possessing 99 level-growth stars, the stats for his new form will be applied and his new Element Grid will be unlocked post-battle.

If Pip already has 99 level-growth stars and has evolved before you apply the update, the stats for his current form will be applied and his Element Grid will be unlocked when you load your save data post-update.

  • Fixed minor bugs

    • The new post-patch application version numbers are as follows:
      • Nintendo Switch™: 1.0.2
      • PlayStation®4: 1.01
      • Xbox One: 1.0.0.2
      • Steam®: 1.0.1.0

So...cool?

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Mar 19th 2023 at 4:08:41 AM

MightyMatilda Mr. Clueless from New Jersey, USA Since: Jan, 2015
Mr. Clueless
#1498: Mar 19th 2023 at 12:33:50 PM

Let me tell you, that Pip Element Grid glitch fix is huge, and I don't mean that they spent a lot of text explaining it. Originally, the glitch could only be bypassed through trickery involving two separate save files.

De Romanīs, lingua Latina gloriosa non fuī.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#1499: Mar 19th 2023 at 12:37:48 PM

Oooo. I bought and downloaded Chrono Cross's remaster but have yet to start playing it because I keep getting interrupted by other things. It's on my list.

Guess I lucked out by waiting so long.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Mar 19th 2023 at 12:38:11 PM

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#1500: Jul 10th 2024 at 9:20:12 PM

Random Bump.

It's taken me years to notice that Lucca and Crono wear similar Tunics.

Also, I've been bingeing Chrono Trigger: The Musical. It's great.

One Strip! One Strip!

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