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SavageOrange tilkau from vi Since: Mar, 2011
tilkau
#1226: Apr 26th 2011 at 5:18:19 PM

@Haldo:

they believe people choose their sexual orientation. Why on earth would somebody choose to be gay?
I have heard that particular angle on it before — mostly from people who think there is something wrong with gayness — eg religious mundafentalists. (personally I don't see why someone would choose to be specifically gay. I'm biased though wink. Buut, if there are significantly more awesome men than awesome women, that seems like a fairly compelling argument.)

I dunno, maybe it's different for different people.

I will always bet on THAT! wink Personally, what Kino said matches my experience very well. Sure, occasionally someone comes along that immediately seems mighty fine in some weird vague way, but largely, it's like I start off with a certain baseline level of attraction for anyone who doesn't repel me, and then opt to notice various aspects about them which increase my attraction. (one common thread I have noticed in people who profess this kind of sexual 'mentality'.. is significantly above average general self awareness.) *

**

I get the impression for many people, it's more like their crotch grabs their brain and shakes it vigorously. [lol] (for me, that happens AFTER I've decided to pursue an attraction wink)

@Deathonabun: You have the most awesome MLP avatar around here[awesome]. *

@people: Why doesn't Spoonerism auto-link.. like, "[[Spoonerism mundafentalists]]"? Is it is because it's only one word? I ended up using an 'external link'.. to that page on Tv Tropes ~_~

edited 26th Apr '11 6:18:09 PM by SavageOrange

'Don't beg for anything, do it yourself, or else you won't get anything.'
BobbyG vigilantly taxonomish from England Since: Jan, 2001
Deathonabun Bunny from the bedroom Since: Jan, 2001
Bunny
#1228: Apr 26th 2011 at 5:24:27 PM

[up][up]Thanks. I try!

One of my few regrets about being born female is the inability to grow a handlebar mustache. -Landstander
Haldo Indecisive pumpkin from Never never land Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
Indecisive pumpkin
#1229: Apr 26th 2011 at 5:25:21 PM

[up][up][up] I don't think there's anything wrong with gayness, it's just that there are some problems that gay people have to face which would probably make it an unappealing option... you know what I mean?

edited 26th Apr '11 5:25:38 PM by Haldo

‽‽‽‽ ^These are interrobangs. Love them. Learn them. Use them.
LoniJay from Australia Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
#1230: Apr 26th 2011 at 5:29:42 PM

I thought attraction was something that was regulated by unconscious parts of your brain and your hormones. You might be able to make yourself attracted to something with a concerted effort for a long period of time, I guess.

I mean, it's a mainly physical and physiological response. We don't have much conscious control over it.

Be not afraid...
Haldo Indecisive pumpkin from Never never land Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
Indecisive pumpkin
#1231: Apr 26th 2011 at 5:31:09 PM

[up] That's pretty much how I see it.

‽‽‽‽ ^These are interrobangs. Love them. Learn them. Use them.
belgarathmth Since: Apr, 2011
#1232: Apr 26th 2011 at 6:00:15 PM

I agree that we do not choose to whom we are attracted. What straight person ever thinks "hmm, it makes quite a bit of practical sense for me to be with him/her; I therefore will now be attracted" ?

Sometimes it amazes me how straight people who don't accept or who outright hate gay people cannot see this critical point!

Does anyone deciding to do anything at all ever think "I am specifically going to do this now because it is considered to be immoral, sick, sinful, etc. "?

Maybe in very rare cases, but, come on? You do things because you enjoy them, they bring you pleasure, they bring you money (food,clothing,shelter,luxuries) or status, or they bring you joy, or love, or else because they are required by your personal sense of duty, altruism, morality, etc.

We gay people are gay because we have feelings of attraction to people of the same sex, and lack feelings of attraction to the opposite sex. We never chose it, or decided it, for better or worse. It simply is what it is, for currently unknown (although heatedly argued) reasons.

"There are two refuges from the miseries of life: music, and cats." Albert Schweitzer
tehjinx i'm delicious from new jersey Since: Apr, 2011 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
i'm delicious
#1233: Apr 26th 2011 at 6:09:06 PM

First post here. Straight. And according to a female friend, it's nice that I can agree at times with her on which male fictional characters are attractive. Yep. With no hesitation, I can say "he's hot" and not feel like my heterosexuality is in jeopardy. I just don't feel like I need to worry there, and it saddens me that some people feel like they do. Nice to meet you all. waii

"Just because someone showers doesn't mean they don't play games. " - lolacat
Poisonarrow Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: In love with love
#1234: Apr 26th 2011 at 6:20:05 PM

[up]I wish more people were like you.

Feminist in the streets, sex slave in the sheets
tehjinx i'm delicious from new jersey Since: Apr, 2011 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
i'm delicious
#1235: Apr 26th 2011 at 6:23:13 PM

[up]I appreciate the thought. Sometimes I make myself laugh, though. I have moments of wondering if I'm too straight, if that makes sense. I'll see a gorgeous girl, fictional or not, and be rendered dumbfounded for a few moments.

"Just because someone showers doesn't mean they don't play games. " - lolacat
SavageOrange tilkau from vi Since: Mar, 2011
tilkau
#1236: Apr 26th 2011 at 6:27:57 PM

[up][up][up]

practical sense for me to be with him/her; I therefore will now be attracted"
Practical sense? In my attraction? INCONCEIVABLE!

For me, it's more like.. this person is awesome. Could sex and/or a relationship with this person be even more awesome? Answer is frequently: Yes! (in my imagination, obviously. clearly it doesn't always turn out that way in practice wink)

Of course, I'm inherently stuck in my perspective, which is pansexual ("I'm attracted to awesome people") so YMMV. I just wanted to point out that the Po V you are commenting on seems exaggerated to the point of parody, rather than a real Po V that either Kino or myself, the known in-thread representatives of the 'choice' Po V, hold.

[up][up] Hear hear!

[up] You know, I've just started taking cold showers every morning (7 days ago now). This may seem un-apropos, But.. the reason I started, was because I read this, which suggests it as a means of improving your emotional resilience *

. It seems to be working* . I actually adopted it to help myself feel slightly less like I've been hit in the gut by a sledgehammer when I'm around certain exciting people. If you really think your situation is a bit excessive, consider trying that.

edited 26th Apr '11 6:39:50 PM by SavageOrange

'Don't beg for anything, do it yourself, or else you won't get anything.'
belgarathmth Since: Apr, 2011
#1237: Apr 26th 2011 at 6:35:40 PM

@Savage, well, I didn't mean to make a "Straw Man", but, my position is that if a person wants to condemn gays based on a moral argument, then that person needs to prove that the orientation itself is willfully chosen.

Are you taking the position that homosexuality is "wrong", or are you a gay person or sympathizer who is taking the "They Choose It" position?

edited 26th Apr '11 6:36:30 PM by belgarathmth

"There are two refuges from the miseries of life: music, and cats." Albert Schweitzer
Enzeru icon by implodingoracle from Orlando, FL ¬ôχಠ♥¯ Since: Mar, 2011
icon by implodingoracle
#1238: Apr 26th 2011 at 6:51:33 PM

[up][up][up]You are by far the best user of your heterosexuality EVER. (Now I'm curious about your offspring policy.)

edited 26th Apr '11 6:51:47 PM by Enzeru

Deathonabun Bunny from the bedroom Since: Jan, 2001
Bunny
#1239: Apr 26th 2011 at 6:52:32 PM

Yes, we need more straight people like the newbie, here.

One of my few regrets about being born female is the inability to grow a handlebar mustache. -Landstander
Haldo Indecisive pumpkin from Never never land Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
Indecisive pumpkin
#1240: Apr 26th 2011 at 6:52:59 PM

agreed, tehjinx is a pretty cool guy

‽‽‽‽ ^These are interrobangs. Love them. Learn them. Use them.
Kino Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Californicating
#1241: Apr 26th 2011 at 6:53:14 PM

There are around 4 straight people in this thread.

Deathonabun Bunny from the bedroom Since: Jan, 2001
Bunny
#1242: Apr 26th 2011 at 6:53:45 PM

Do I count as half a straight person?

One of my few regrets about being born female is the inability to grow a handlebar mustache. -Landstander
Kino Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Californicating
Deathonabun Bunny from the bedroom Since: Jan, 2001
Bunny
#1244: Apr 26th 2011 at 6:55:07 PM

Bah.

Fine.

One of my few regrets about being born female is the inability to grow a handlebar mustache. -Landstander
Kino Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Californicating
#1245: Apr 26th 2011 at 6:55:40 PM

I don't make the rules, I just arbitrarily enforce them.

Haldo Indecisive pumpkin from Never never land Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
Indecisive pumpkin
#1246: Apr 26th 2011 at 7:00:53 PM

@Kino XD

‽‽‽‽ ^These are interrobangs. Love them. Learn them. Use them.
Deathonabun Bunny from the bedroom Since: Jan, 2001
Bunny
#1247: Apr 26th 2011 at 7:01:18 PM

His avatar goes so well with what he's saying right now...

One of my few regrets about being born female is the inability to grow a handlebar mustache. -Landstander
SavageOrange tilkau from vi Since: Mar, 2011
tilkau
#1248: Apr 26th 2011 at 7:07:32 PM

@ Belgarath:

True. However, winning an argument by redefining the terms ('gayness is not a choice' vs the actual fact 'gayness is.. something we still don't understand well enough to correctly designate it's origins') is a troll tactic. It's not something that is credible, and IMO it's just bad practice to use this as an argument against whatever moral mishmash devised by opponents. You need to argue in good faith, even if your opponents aren't.*

You could argue that it's a long established practice that hasn't notably caused harm. You could argue that cultivating close relationships between men reduces the likelihood of violence, and between the same sex in general improves social cohesion. etc. In short, their proposition being 'Gayness is a choice, a BAD CHOICE', you don't have to refute the 'choice' part to defeat their argument, only the 'BAD' part.

as for the latter part of your post: I'm pansexual and have definite attractions to both men and women. I don't hate myself, so not an opponent wink; And I think that saying that all people choose their sexuality is going too far — A majority of people are just tossed around by life without really getting a handle on the internal workings of some of the important aspects of their life.

Saying that most people have the potential to be able to choose knowingly, and many people choose unknowingly — that's pretty much what I mean.

edited 26th Apr '11 7:21:15 PM by SavageOrange

'Don't beg for anything, do it yourself, or else you won't get anything.'
tehjinx i'm delicious from new jersey Since: Apr, 2011 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
i'm delicious
#1249: Apr 26th 2011 at 7:07:36 PM

Wait. I got called cool, and people are gelling with my opinions? Oh, Crap!. I think I'm in The Twilight Zone. Now to wait for the twist... If I wore glasses, they'd have broken by now. My opinion on offspring is simple: if you can handle bringing them in the world and raising them until you finish paying the government what you owe for having them, do so. If you can't... A Date with Rosie Palms.

"Just because someone showers doesn't mean they don't play games. " - lolacat
Enzeru icon by implodingoracle from Orlando, FL ¬ôχಠ♥¯ Since: Mar, 2011
icon by implodingoracle
#1250: Apr 26th 2011 at 7:13:19 PM

Ah. Not quite sure I follow, but I guess I can [verb] with that.


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