Also:
edited 2nd Jan '11 11:22:52 PM by LeighSabio
"All pain is a punishment, and every punishment is inflicted for love as much as for justice." — Joseph De Maistre.I don't consider modern feminists dangerous at all, they're simply damn annoying - like an army of Jerk Sues come to life. Face it, in the contemporary western society, women have achieved, more or less, complete equality. I know a few feminists, and their ideals could be boiled down to turning men into a legion of non-complaining pack-mules.
The sin of silence when they should protest makes cowards of men.
I'm not entirely convinced that women have complete equality - there are still quite a few pockets of sexism in our society and its views.
Well, I consider myself a feminist, and I don't think anything like that. Feminist, as I understand it, means "I believe that women deserve the same rights as men".
Really, though, the movement needs a new name, like Gender Egalitarianism.
Be not afraid...I'm not anti-feminist, but I am against the "feminazi" types who call themselves feminists. By that, I mean the women who don't believe it's possible for a man to be abused or raped, who believe that the only good man is a dead one, who treat the Lifetime Movie of the Week as gospel truth. Those women have driven the name of the movement straight into the ground.
Are women equal? More than ever before. In some ways, they are still behind - more likely to be abused, still behind in pay in some jobs. In a few, they're ahead - just ask any father who's tried to get sole or even primary custody of their children. I'm not sure it's enough to declare full equality, or that it'll even happen in my lifetime, as discrimination seems to be an ingrained part of human psychology.
That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw![]()
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I agree with your views. The phenomenon of Vocal Minorities is quite annoying - nothing can cloud a person's judgement as much as the ramblings of a hard-line Vocal Minority can. I didn't say it was full equality, though, but that it's relatively close to it.
edited 3rd Jan '11 2:47:23 AM by MilosStefanovic
The sin of silence when they should protest makes cowards of men.Maybe it's just me, but here's a guess about one factor in anti-feminism: it's relatively easy to root for feminists when they're fighting an overt discriminatory institution, but the number of de jure targets left has dwindled, so the battle is now being waged more and more against relatively ambiguous targets like "offensive" media content, non-malicious subtle forms of sexism that are much more common than the extreme sort, and things we don't necessarily even notice like "male privilege". While the ultimate goals of this battle, as far as I can tell, are generally inoffensive (e.g. less rape), the means of achieving them seem to involve an off-putting quantity of thought policing and shaming of males who thought they'd already made their contribution to equality.
Link to newspaper article about domestic violence against men from September 2010
There is also an interesting point made about the number of refuges provided for each sex, and a case study.
edited 3rd Jan '11 4:04:36 AM by IanExMachina
By the powers invested in me by tabloid-reading imbeciles, I pronounce you guilty of paedophilia!I thread hopped, but basically I agree with Loni Jay saying how feminism should change its name to a more accurate description. I described myself as feminist for about a second until I discovered the term "equalist". Seems like a better word to me.
"Without a fairy, you're not even a real man!" ~ Mido from Ocarina of TimeIts weird since I've met a fair amount of feminists, in real life, who hold that women are superior than men and men should be second-class citizens.
I'm not sure if this is revenge politics.
Well he's talking about WWII when the Chinese bomb pearl harbor and they commuted suicide by running their planes into the ship.I'd like to bring up new surveys that find that good looking men actually get a higher discrepancy in wages then women, probably becaue of better attidtudes or more women in higher jobs.
Major Tom mentioned women not being steelworkers for an example. Well, considering boys are dropping out a lot more, a lot more men will have to settle for low-uncome jobs.
A problem I have s that when people insist on the pay gap being still large when they never actually have data or use old stuff. And since, Leigh completely owned that concept with her winpost, I actually think women probably get more now, considering they work less.
The thing about women being encouraged to work less to take care of family has a very simple reason: there are m any more single moms then dads.
edited 3rd Jan '11 5:00:52 PM by Erock
If you don't like a single Frank Ocean song, you have no soul.I consider myself to be a feminist at least on a low level, and I adhere to academic feminism more than what educators and social commentators call "pseudo-feminism"; the kind of feminism a lot of people on this thread are complaining about. For me and some like-minded people, feminism is about establishing and safeguarding choices for both women and men. Perhaps more importantly, it's about challenging unnecessary hierarchical relationships between the genders and forming an atmosphere of cooperation and harmony.
Sexual discrimination harms both genders, and there are feminists who are attempting to address and solve this problem. One professor I work with very intelligently pointed out that academic feminism should more accurately be described as a sub-field of gender studies, and there are numerous real-world examples to support this idea. Susan Romaine, for example, recently wrote a very compelling essay that talks about how not letting women participate in ground combat negatively affects both genders. I'm not about to join this citation battle, so look that up on your own.
I used to have a Berserk Button for people who downplay or condemn the importance of contemporary feminism or civil rights in general, but I've learned that people who fall back on saying "feminism is just bullshit" ought to be ignored. It's also worth pointing out (and I'm surprised no one has mentioned this) that fairness is probably more important than equality when it comes to gender or anything else. Women are different from men in certain ways, but throughout thousands of years, we have come to politicize those differences in such a way that adversarial (or rather anti-egalitarian) power dynamics have been formed and continue to this day and age. I can see both sides of the argument on this thread, and a good number of people here have made valid points. I also think we can all agree that exaggerating contemporary imbalances in gender issues is just as quixotic and harmful as underrating or denying their significance in shaping societies for better or worse.
The vocal minority issue has already been explained, so I won't repeat that.
Edit: I don't have the link for this data, so don't get pissy when I say that women are statistically more likely to use a lethal weapon than men in domestic violence situations. This would explain why men are more likely to press charges against women in such cases. It's something think about.
edited 3rd Jan '11 5:11:26 PM by Aprilla
@Erock: I'm seeing that you ignored that women work less probably because they're expected to take care of all this family stuff that men can safely ignore.
Also that the Leigh did say explicitly at least a little of the wage gap was pure discrimination.
@Aprilla: Basically I agree with you; nothing more specific to say.
EDIT @Desertopa: Wikipedia says that the study Leigh's talking about was conducted in 2009, so probably it has not changed since then.
edited 3rd Jan '11 5:21:39 PM by BlackHumor
@ Aprilla: I don't think academic feminists are man-hating. But academic feminism seems to assume that all power structures today work in favor of men and are influenced by bias against women, when in reality, not all are. Some power structures nowadays are egalitarian, and some are biased against men.
"All pain is a punishment, and every punishment is inflicted for love as much as for justice." — Joseph De Maistre.

This 2002 article states:
It cites four different studies.
edited 2nd Jan '11 11:04:52 PM by jewelleddragon