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Why are so many people anti-feminist?

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jewelleddragon Also known as Katz from Pasadena, CA Since: Apr, 2009
Also known as Katz
#76: Jan 2nd 2011 at 11:04:32 PM

This 2002 article states:

Although it is argued that men are likely to under-report being hit by a female partner, while women are likely to over-report to serve their own interests, the available data suggests otherwise. Men tend to under-estimate their use of violence, while women tend to over-estimate their use of violence. Simultaneously men tend to over-estimate their partners use of violence while women tend to under-estimate their partners use of violence. Thus, men will likely over-estimate their victimization, while women tend to underestimate theirs. As evidence of this, men are more likely to call the police, press charges and less likely to drop charges than are women.

It cites four different studies.

edited 2nd Jan '11 11:04:52 PM by jewelleddragon

LeighSabio Mate Griffon To Mare from Love party! Since: Jan, 2001
Mate Griffon To Mare
#77: Jan 2nd 2011 at 11:20:17 PM

Your sources, sir...  *

Also:

In the United States, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics in 1995 women reported a six times greater rate of intimate partner violence than men.[4][5] However studies have found that men are much less likely to report victimization in these situations.[3]

edited 2nd Jan '11 11:22:52 PM by LeighSabio

"All pain is a punishment, and every punishment is inflicted for love as much as for justice." — Joseph De Maistre.
jewelleddragon Also known as Katz from Pasadena, CA Since: Apr, 2009
Also known as Katz
#78: Jan 2nd 2011 at 11:43:46 PM

Wikipedia, About.com, and Cracked? Really?

MilosStefanovic Decemberist from White City, Ruritania Since: Oct, 2010
Decemberist
#80: Jan 3rd 2011 at 2:31:10 AM

I don't consider modern feminists dangerous at all, they're simply damn annoying - like an army of Jerk Sues come to life. Face it, in the contemporary western society, women have achieved, more or less, complete equality. I know a few feminists, and their ideals could be boiled down to turning men into a legion of non-complaining pack-mules.

The sin of silence when they should protest makes cowards of men.
LoniJay from Australia Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
#81: Jan 3rd 2011 at 2:36:30 AM

[up] I'm not entirely convinced that women have complete equality - there are still quite a few pockets of sexism in our society and its views.

Well, I consider myself a feminist, and I don't think anything like that. Feminist, as I understand it, means "I believe that women deserve the same rights as men".

Really, though, the movement needs a new name, like Gender Egalitarianism.

Be not afraid...
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#82: Jan 3rd 2011 at 2:45:14 AM

I'm not anti-feminist, but I am against the "feminazi" types who call themselves feminists. By that, I mean the women who don't believe it's possible for a man to be abused or raped, who believe that the only good man is a dead one, who treat the Lifetime Movie of the Week as gospel truth. Those women have driven the name of the movement straight into the ground.

Are women equal? More than ever before. In some ways, they are still behind - more likely to be abused, still behind in pay in some jobs. In a few, they're ahead - just ask any father who's tried to get sole or even primary custody of their children. I'm not sure it's enough to declare full equality, or that it'll even happen in my lifetime, as discrimination seems to be an ingrained part of human psychology.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
MilosStefanovic Decemberist from White City, Ruritania Since: Oct, 2010
Decemberist
#83: Jan 3rd 2011 at 2:45:59 AM

[up][up], [up] I agree with your views. The phenomenon of Vocal Minorities is quite annoying - nothing can cloud a person's judgement as much as the ramblings of a hard-line Vocal Minority can. I didn't say it was full equality, though, but that it's relatively close to it.

edited 3rd Jan '11 2:47:23 AM by MilosStefanovic

The sin of silence when they should protest makes cowards of men.
Tongpu Since: Jan, 2001
#84: Jan 3rd 2011 at 3:04:27 AM

Maybe it's just me, but here's a guess about one factor in anti-feminism: it's relatively easy to root for feminists when they're fighting an overt discriminatory institution, but the number of de jure targets left has dwindled, so the battle is now being waged more and more against relatively ambiguous targets like "offensive" media content, non-malicious subtle forms of sexism that are much more common than the extreme sort, and things we don't necessarily even notice like "male privilege". While the ultimate goals of this battle, as far as I can tell, are generally inoffensive (e.g. less rape), the means of achieving them seem to involve an off-putting quantity of thought policing and shaming of males who thought they'd already made their contribution to equality.

IanExMachina The Paedofinder General from Gone with the Chickens Since: Jul, 2009
The Paedofinder General
#85: Jan 3rd 2011 at 4:02:47 AM

Link to newspaper article about domestic violence against men from September 2010

Data from Home Office statistical bulletins and the British Crime Survey show that men made up about 40% of domestic violence victims each year between 2004-05 and 2008-09, the last year for which figures are available. In 2006-07 men made up 43.4% of all those who had suffered partner abuse in the previous year, which rose to 45.5% in 2007-08 but fell to 37.7% in 2008-09.

There is also an interesting point made about the number of refuges provided for each sex, and a case study.

edited 3rd Jan '11 4:04:36 AM by IanExMachina

By the powers invested in me by tabloid-reading imbeciles, I pronounce you guilty of paedophilia!
snailbait bitchy queen from psych ward Since: Jul, 2010
bitchy queen
#86: Jan 3rd 2011 at 5:15:26 AM

I thread hopped, but basically I agree with Loni Jay saying how feminism should change its name to a more accurate description. I described myself as feminist for about a second until I discovered the term "equalist". Seems like a better word to me.

"Without a fairy, you're not even a real man!" ~ Mido from Ocarina of Time
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#87: Jan 3rd 2011 at 6:25:34 AM

Jewel: Don't bellyache about sources unless you have the balls to just flat-out say that the data is inaccurate.

saladofstones :V from Happy Place Since: Jan, 2011
:V
#88: Jan 3rd 2011 at 3:09:12 PM

Its weird since I've met a fair amount of feminists, in real life, who hold that women are superior than men and men should be second-class citizens.

I'm not sure if this is revenge politics.

Well he's talking about WWII when the Chinese bomb pearl harbor and they commuted suicide by running their planes into the ship.
BlackHumor Since: Jan, 2001
#89: Jan 3rd 2011 at 4:55:26 PM

Tongpu, as usual nowadays, is exactly right.

@saladofstones: Essentially, yeah. (Only the "extreme" feminists nowadays don't tend to be actively crazy so much as overly zealous, so there aren't actually that many overt manhaters now.)

Erock Proud Canadian from Toronto Since: Jul, 2009
Proud Canadian
#90: Jan 3rd 2011 at 5:00:40 PM

I'd like to bring up new surveys that find that good looking men actually get a higher discrepancy in wages then women, probably becaue of better attidtudes or more women in higher jobs.

Major Tom mentioned women not being steelworkers for an example. Well, considering boys are dropping out a lot more, a lot more men will have to settle for low-uncome jobs.

A problem I have s that when people insist on the pay gap being still large when they never actually have data or use old stuff. And since, Leigh completely owned that concept with her winpost, I actually think women probably get more now, considering they work less.

The thing about women being encouraged to work less to take care of family has a very simple reason: there are m any more single moms then dads.

edited 3rd Jan '11 5:00:52 PM by Erock

If you don't like a single Frank Ocean song, you have no soul.
Erock Proud Canadian from Toronto Since: Jul, 2009
Proud Canadian
#91: Jan 3rd 2011 at 5:04:07 PM

Well one of the studies says women bot report being victims and perps more, so maybe it's an honesty thing.

Quoting %s of women and men victims leaves a out a critical point: it doesn't count the number of incidents.

If you don't like a single Frank Ocean song, you have no soul.
Aprilla Since: Aug, 2010
#92: Jan 3rd 2011 at 5:07:20 PM

I consider myself to be a feminist at least on a low level, and I adhere to academic feminism more than what educators and social commentators call "pseudo-feminism"; the kind of feminism a lot of people on this thread are complaining about. For me and some like-minded people, feminism is about establishing and safeguarding choices for both women and men. Perhaps more importantly, it's about challenging unnecessary hierarchical relationships between the genders and forming an atmosphere of cooperation and harmony.

Sexual discrimination harms both genders, and there are feminists who are attempting to address and solve this problem. One professor I work with very intelligently pointed out that academic feminism should more accurately be described as a sub-field of gender studies, and there are numerous real-world examples to support this idea. Susan Romaine, for example, recently wrote a very compelling essay that talks about how not letting women participate in ground combat negatively affects both genders. I'm not about to join this citation battle, so look that up on your own.

I used to have a Berserk Button for people who downplay or condemn the importance of contemporary feminism or civil rights in general, but I've learned that people who fall back on saying "feminism is just bullshit" ought to be ignored. It's also worth pointing out (and I'm surprised no one has mentioned this) that fairness is probably more important than equality when it comes to gender or anything else. Women are different from men in certain ways, but throughout thousands of years, we have come to politicize those differences in such a way that adversarial (or rather anti-egalitarian) power dynamics have been formed and continue to this day and age. I can see both sides of the argument on this thread, and a good number of people here have made valid points. I also think we can all agree that exaggerating contemporary imbalances in gender issues is just as quixotic and harmful as underrating or denying their significance in shaping societies for better or worse.

The vocal minority issue has already been explained, so I won't repeat that.

Edit: I don't have the link for this data, so don't get pissy when I say that women are statistically more likely to use a lethal weapon than men in domestic violence situations. This would explain why men are more likely to press charges against women in such cases. It's something think about.

edited 3rd Jan '11 5:11:26 PM by Aprilla

BlackHumor Since: Jan, 2001
#93: Jan 3rd 2011 at 5:19:56 PM

@Erock: I'm seeing that you ignored that women work less probably because they're expected to take care of all this family stuff that men can safely ignore.

Also that the Leigh did say explicitly at least a little of the wage gap was pure discrimination.

@Aprilla: Basically I agree with you; nothing more specific to say.

EDIT @Desertopa: Wikipedia says that the study Leigh's talking about was conducted in 2009, so probably it has not changed since then.

edited 3rd Jan '11 5:21:39 PM by BlackHumor

LeighSabio Mate Griffon To Mare from Love party! Since: Jan, 2001
Mate Griffon To Mare
#94: Jan 3rd 2011 at 5:32:40 PM

@ Aprilla: I don't think academic feminists are man-hating. But academic feminism seems to assume that all power structures today work in favor of men and are influenced by bias against women, when in reality, not all are. Some power structures nowadays are egalitarian, and some are biased against men.

"All pain is a punishment, and every punishment is inflicted for love as much as for justice." — Joseph De Maistre.
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#95: Jan 3rd 2011 at 5:39:44 PM

Like the porn industry! I mean, what's a guy in a video but a generic meatstick? He's not the one who sells the damned stuff-he's hardly even in the credits!

BlackHumor Since: Jan, 2001
#96: Jan 3rd 2011 at 5:41:54 PM

Eh, and then the women is explicitly called a whore.

It's kind of egalitarian in a bad way.

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#97: Jan 3rd 2011 at 5:43:25 PM

The solution there is to treat porn stars as sexy goddesses!

BlackHumor Since: Jan, 2001
#98: Jan 3rd 2011 at 5:45:28 PM

But then I never get to get off!

If you don't get this, dig through Fetishes.

neoYTPism Since: May, 2010
#99: Jan 3rd 2011 at 6:17:18 PM

"The solution there is to treat porn stars as sexy goddesses!" - Tomu

Who says they aren't regarded as such?

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#100: Jan 3rd 2011 at 6:25:37 PM

The people who just regard them as common whores.

Though I guess you could start by treating whores better too-


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