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rename and clean up description: You Are Batman

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SeanMurrayI Since: Jan, 2010
#1: Jan 1st 2011 at 11:41:26 AM

Fresh launch from YKTTW.

The [Trope Name] doesn't do a very good job at conveying the trope's concept; really, if you're not very familiar with Batman comics, then this could mean anything.

Even if this page's concept is valid, the description can definitely use some tweaking. The opening sentences are way too broad for what the trope is specifically covering and inconsistent with everything else on the page.

suedenim Teutonic Tomboy T-Girl from Jet Dream HQ Since: Oct, 2009
Teutonic Tomboy T-Girl
#2: Jan 1st 2011 at 12:03:41 PM

I think it's conceptually bad, regardless of the name. It's not really a subtrope of Take Up My Sword so much as a slight variation of it, I think.

Even the Batman example isn't actually a very good one. Bruce Wayne did leave instructions, it's just that they were "DO NOT become Batman." He does anyway, as part of a Broken Aesop (basically "No matter how good Nightwing or Robin or Huntress or any number of heroes are, if one if them isn't running around dressed like a bat, Gotham City will be absolutely destroyed within 20 minutes.")

edited 1st Jan '11 12:08:30 PM by suedenim

Jet-a-Reeno!
Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#3: Jan 1st 2011 at 2:24:53 PM

Just took a look at the page. Vote cut and send back to YKTTW.

Fight smart, not fair.
Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#4: Jan 1st 2011 at 4:24:57 PM

Its a sib trope to Take Up My Sword, not a subtrope of it. It's really wordy and rambling. It's a valid trope. Looks like it spent the minimum three days in YKTTW — it only has six replies, and 3 of them are suggestions that it's largely covered by other tropes.

Hmm. Yeah. Back to YKTTW for more work.

edited 1st Jan '11 4:27:00 PM by Madrugada

suedenim Teutonic Tomboy T-Girl from Jet Dream HQ Since: Oct, 2009
Teutonic Tomboy T-Girl
#5: Jan 1st 2011 at 5:38:00 PM

It looks to me like the kind of sibling trope situation that will (assuming the new one thrives at all) be one of those pairs where each trope winds up with a nearly-identical list of examples.

Take Up My Sword itself needs a rewrite, incidentally, if for no other reason than removing TV-centric language like "When it happens later in the season (or in later seasons)" and the like.

Jet-a-Reeno!
Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#6: Jan 1st 2011 at 6:06:12 PM

Hmmm. I see a clear difference:

  • Take Up My Sword: the departing character asks or tells the remaining character to follow in his footsteps/take up my sword/continue the battle in my name/etc.
  • What ever this one becomes: The remaining character decides on his or her own to step into the role left by the departing character. This may even go against the departing character's express desires.

The descriptions will probably need to be pared way down to keep that from being lost in the verbiage, though.

sgrunt Sigil Spam from the depths of your mind Since: Apr, 2009
#8: Jan 1st 2011 at 7:39:42 PM

The New Batman?

I Am Now Batman?

Do we want to use Batman as an example in the trope name? Is there a phrase we can pull that would serve as a title?

If not, perhaps The New Hero or similar will work?

This space for rent. Cost: your soul.
CyganAngel Away on the wind~ from Arcadia Since: Oct, 2010
Away on the wind~
#9: Jan 1st 2011 at 7:43:11 PM

Take Up The Mantle?

There are too many toasters in my chimney!
XRay2 X Ray 2 from My chair Since: Nov, 2010
#10: Jan 1st 2011 at 7:47:30 PM

Oh dear...

Whoops. sad

Well, if you want me, the guy who posted the YKTTW which started it, to, you know, rewrite the description, I can do that...

Incidentally, I think "You Are Batman" sounds a heck of a lot cooler than the above suggested examples.

Sincerely, X Ray 2.

Hi, I'm X Ray 2. I'm a high school student, and I am AWESOME.
CyganAngel Away on the wind~ from Arcadia Since: Oct, 2010
Away on the wind~
#11: Jan 1st 2011 at 7:48:25 PM

It sounds cooler, but it's not descriptive of the Trope.

There are too many toasters in my chimney!
SilentReverence adopting kitteh from 3 tiles right 1 tile up Since: Jan, 2010
adopting kitteh
#12: Jan 1st 2011 at 8:05:57 PM

I think the "you are" is misguiding for the purposes of this trope (it would better fit Take Up My Sword). Maybe I Will Be Batman or somethign like I Will Take The Sword would be a better name, but it is still somewhat misguiding as well.

Fanfic Recs orwellianretcon'd: cutlocked for committee or for Google?
helterskelter Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#13: Jan 1st 2011 at 8:23:02 PM

The title should convey the trope. Sounding good is nice, but if it's misleading and abstract, it needs a better title. The image is also JAFAAC.

I like Take Up The Mantle.

edited 1st Jan '11 8:23:35 PM by helterskelter

Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#14: Jan 1st 2011 at 8:27:16 PM

For me, Take Up The Mantle is too similar to Take Up My Sword. Personally I'd prefer to have the name be clearer that this one is completely voluntary.

CyganAngel Away on the wind~ from Arcadia Since: Oct, 2010
Away on the wind~
#15: Jan 1st 2011 at 8:37:11 PM

Hmmm...

How about Successor To The Title, or something along these lines?

There are too many toasters in my chimney!
GoggleFox rrrrrrrrr from Acadia, yo. Since: Jul, 2009
rrrrrrrrr
#16: Jan 1st 2011 at 8:44:49 PM

If you check Take Up My Sword, you'll find that not only does the description not imply that the departing character has to tell the new hero/villain/kumquat to take the sword, but many of the examples also do not involve such a speech or action. An awful lot of the decisions are made post-mortem, although some of the famous examples are not.

I really don't think there's enough variation between the two to warrant a second trope.

Sakamoto demands an explanation for this shit.
Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#17: Jan 1st 2011 at 9:13:59 PM

But they're often handled very differently, and usually involve a somewhat different character combination. When the departing character specifically asks the remaining character to take on the responsibility, the younger/newer character hasn't usually been the sidekick as such— he's usually been the apprentice or trainee, and there's an implication that the training has been to prepare him all along. If he's not fully prepared, it's because the transfer came sooner than expected.

XRay2 X Ray 2 from My chair Since: Nov, 2010
#18: Jan 1st 2011 at 9:34:11 PM

So, do you guys want me to rewrite it or not? And what does JAFAAC mean? (Somebody here said that the image was it)

X Ray 2.

Hi, I'm X Ray 2. I'm a high school student, and I am AWESOME.
sgrunt Sigil Spam from the depths of your mind Since: Apr, 2009
#19: Jan 1st 2011 at 9:38:54 PM

[up]Just A Face And A Caption.

I think we need to start with a new name and clearly define what we need this to be before contemplating a rewrite.

This space for rent. Cost: your soul.
0dd1 Just awesome like that from Nowhere Land Since: Sep, 2009
Just awesome like that
#20: Jan 1st 2011 at 11:59:07 PM

How about Substitute Hero? (Admittedly, I'm not too sure myself about this name...)

Insert witty and clever quip here. My page, as the database hates my handle.
KrisMahai Hm? Since: Jan, 2013
Hm?
#21: Jan 2nd 2011 at 12:03:40 AM

No, it sounds like someone's filling in temporarily, not permanently taking up the mantle.

“Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?”
CaissasDeathAngel House Lewis: Sanity is Relative from Dumfries, SW Scotland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
House Lewis: Sanity is Relative
#22: Jan 2nd 2011 at 7:46:00 AM

I actually got this one straight away, even without knowing much about Batman. That may have been a lucky guess though, or because the story linked in my sig is going to employ this trope in an upcoming chapter. Specifically, in-story there is a character everyone believes to be The Hero (he's set himself up as such deliberately), who will rise up and free himself and all his oppressed friends from certain death. But things go wrong, and he ends up as one of the first casualties. Another character realises that there's now a gap in the market for a hero, and, believing it could be her, takes the opportunity. She goes on to be the real hero of the story.

This scenario cannot be Take Up My Sword as the two characters do not actually interact during the events of the story, though flashbacks show they were friends previously. It's a unilateral decision on the girl's part, and has no involvement from the decoy hero who obviously did not intend dying, thus did not intend there to be any need for a hero other than him.

So this is definitely a trope in its own right, but it does need a better name. It also I think needs Jumped at the Call to be included in the description, because that trope can certainly cause this one (as in my example)

My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.
Dcoetzee from San Francisco Since: Jan, 2001
#23: Jan 2nd 2011 at 9:37:02 AM

Is this trope is to be a subtle variant on Take Up My Sword, the title should reflect how it differs from that trope - which it doesn't.

Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#24: Jan 2nd 2011 at 9:41:48 AM

It's not a variant. It's a sister trope.

Wulf Gotta trope, dood! from Louisiana Since: Jan, 2001
Gotta trope, dood!
#25: Jan 2nd 2011 at 10:39:56 AM

Hmm... where does this fit in with Legacy Immortality? 'Nother sister trope?

They lost me. Forgot me. Made you from parts of me. If you're the One, my father's son, what am I supposed to be?

AlternativeTitles: YouAreBatman
20th Apr '10 12:00:00 AM

Crown Description:

Vote up names you like, vote down names you don't. Whether or not the title will actually be changed is determined with a different kind of crowner (the Single Proposition crowner). This one just collects and ranks alternative titles.

Total posts: 121
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