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Things that were cut from the bible as we know it.

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TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#1: Dec 31st 2010 at 8:09:22 PM

I am sure you have heard of things removed from bible prior it's adoption. Let us discuss what was removed, why it was removed, and its possible impact on Christianity if it was left in if any.

Who watches the watchmen?
BobbyG vigilantly taxonomish from England Since: Jan, 2001
vigilantly taxonomish
#2: Dec 31st 2010 at 8:15:36 PM

You mean books that were rejected, or actual alterations?

With regards to the latter, I think the thing about Barabbas originally being called "Jesus" is interesting given that if the Jews were calling for Jesus' freedom, the blame for His death ought to lie with the Romans and the Pharisees rather than the Jewish people (who were traditionally blamed).

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Tzetze DUMB from a converted church in Venice, Italy Since: Jan, 2001
DUMB
#3: Dec 31st 2010 at 8:20:03 PM

It wasn't so much removed as never canonized as true. There wasn't some proto-Bible with more books. There was a vague collection, before Marcion showed up and forced things to go into high gear. Of course development of the canon was still vague and slow.

edited 31st Dec '10 8:20:46 PM by Tzetze

[1] This facsimile operated in part by synAC.
silver2195 Since: Jan, 2001
#4: Dec 31st 2010 at 8:31:53 PM

It wasn't so much removed as never canonized as true. There wasn't some proto-Bible with more books. There was a vague collection, before Marcion showed up and forced things to go into high gear. Of course development of the canon was still vague and slow.

This. It really annoys me how every new Gnostic text that's unearthed is touted as "the TRUE story".

Currently taking a break from the site. See my user page for more information.
Tzetze DUMB from a converted church in Venice, Italy Since: Jan, 2001
BobbyG vigilantly taxonomish from England Since: Jan, 2001
vigilantly taxonomish
#6: Dec 31st 2010 at 8:34:07 PM

I think it strange that Enoch wasn't included. He's mentioned, and Paul quotes the book.

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TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#7: Dec 31st 2010 at 8:34:55 PM

Interesting to learn so what sort of items were not made into canon.

Explain about Enoch.

edited 31st Dec '10 8:35:07 PM by TuefelHundenIV

Who watches the watchmen?
Tzetze DUMB from a converted church in Venice, Italy Since: Jan, 2001
DUMB
#8: Dec 31st 2010 at 8:35:33 PM

Well, there's already Revelations, do you really need two bad trips in the same book? tongue

[1] This facsimile operated in part by synAC.
Bur from Flyover Country (Living Relic) Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#9: Dec 31st 2010 at 9:04:51 PM

Is Enoch the one about angels going around having sex with everything?

silver2195 Since: Jan, 2001
#10: Dec 31st 2010 at 9:07:02 PM

Tzetze pretty much sums it up. Enoch is too weird. Perhaps a worse problem for Enoch is that Enoch was supposed to have lived before The Great Flood; the book is too obviously written by someone else. (Some of the other Bible books are probably pseudonymous, but none that clearly so.)

Currently taking a break from the site. See my user page for more information.
Tzetze DUMB from a converted church in Venice, Italy Since: Jan, 2001
DUMB
#11: Dec 31st 2010 at 9:07:32 PM

It's where the Grigori and Nephilim are explained, yes, but most of it is some shots of Heaven from what I remember.

[1] This facsimile operated in part by synAC.
BlackHumor Since: Jan, 2001
#12: Dec 31st 2010 at 10:32:31 PM

With regards to the latter, I think the thing about Barabbas originally being called "Jesus" is interesting given that if the Jews were calling for Jesus' freedom, the blame for His death ought to lie with the Romans and the Pharisees rather than the Jewish people (who were traditionally blamed).

Uh... the Pharisees WERE the Jewish people.

Or at least, the Pharisees were the Jewish people who were traditionally blamed for Jesus' death.

FrodoGoofballCoTV from Colorado, USA Since: Jan, 2001
#13: Jan 1st 2011 at 12:00:40 AM

FYI,

lordGacek Since: Jan, 2001
#14: Jan 1st 2011 at 5:07:20 AM

Cracked.com offers an explanation:

Sure, miracles like bread splitting or wine making might seem a bit dull, but that's just because the church decided that the part where Jesus became the snake-melting dragonmaster was a little too terrifying for your delicate sensibilities.

(It's here.)

wink

BobbyG vigilantly taxonomish from England Since: Jan, 2001
vigilantly taxonomish
#15: Jan 1st 2011 at 5:28:24 AM

@ Black Humor: The entire Jewish people were subject to discrimination and popularly regarded as responsible for Jesus' death, and the scene with Barabbas is the scene which portrays the population in the most negative light.

Not all non-canonical books are apocryphal. Apocrypha has traditionally been fairly respectable in comparison to, say, Gnostic writings which are traditionally considered heresies.

edited 1st Jan '11 5:29:58 AM by BobbyG

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TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#16: Jan 1st 2011 at 6:25:24 PM

Frodo: Are those links free material? If so I have reading material at work.

Who watches the watchmen?
Tzetze DUMB from a converted church in Venice, Italy Since: Jan, 2001
FrodoGoofballCoTV from Colorado, USA Since: Jan, 2001
#18: Jan 1st 2011 at 8:55:41 PM

Frodo: Are those links free material? If so I have reading material at work.
Yes, it's the internet.... all but the last are Wikipedia... I'm wondering if I don't understand your question.

TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#19: Jan 1st 2011 at 9:18:57 PM

Well the last link I am making sure its not a click and pay scheme where you pay a nominal fee to read the sources.

Who watches the watchmen?
Tzetze DUMB from a converted church in Venice, Italy Since: Jan, 2001
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#21: Jan 1st 2011 at 9:20:17 PM

Ok thanks.

Who watches the watchmen?
deathjavu This foreboding is fa... from The internet, obviously Since: Feb, 2010
This foreboding is fa...
#22: Jan 2nd 2011 at 7:56:02 PM

I always thought it was crazy that people who study this stuff estimate that there used to be 100+ Christian gospels floating around...

And we ended up with 4 cannon (the earliest supposedly being written ~30 AD) and, what, 30 total?

All because the other 70+ weren't suitable for founding a large organized religion.

Look, you can't make me speak in a logical, coherent, intelligent bananna.
Yuval Since: May, 2013
#23: Jan 2nd 2011 at 9:26:00 PM

Enoch is great for getting fourteen-year-old boys interested in the Old Testament. Everybody wants to hear about the slutty angels and their killer hybrid offspring. It portrays YHWH as being a bit of an unforgiving authoritarian douche, but that's hardly new, and the Nephilim were, like, eating everybody.

I can understand why they cut it from accepted canon, but it's still a shame.

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#24: Jan 3rd 2011 at 6:17:26 AM

I don't understand how people can accept the notion of "Unaltered literal divine word of God" when books were cut from it.

Bur from Flyover Country (Living Relic) Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#25: Jan 3rd 2011 at 7:07:16 AM

Nothing's worse than people who think the KJV is the only Bible that ever Bibled.


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