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RabidRainbow from somewhere on land. Since: May, 2009
#51: Jul 7th 2011 at 12:13:12 AM

I've tried to get into the EU but I've never seen what the big deal was about it...although I suppose I was already burned out before even starting, after hearing one too many fanboys tell me I wasn't a "real fan" because I hadn't read the EU.

I started with Zahn's Thrawn Trilogy and Hand Of Thrawn books and eh, I just wasn't feeling it. Part of it was that the story just didn't draw me in the way the movies did; it just didn't have the sense of adventure and fantasy. And part of it was that I just couldn't get past my dislike of Mara Jade ("Oh look at me I'm a super awesome Force user who secretly worked for the emperor and I was totally at Jabba's palace to kill you even though you never saw me and it's a good thing circumstances conspired to keep me away from the Pit of Carkoon battle otherwise Luke totally would have died and now I'm going to hate you but grudgingly save your life even though I want to kill you.") and then in Hand of Thrawn she comes back and is apparently ~*~*more in touch with the Force*~*~ and can tell why Luke is having trouble with the Force. Mainly, the whole "I was totally there during the movies!" aspect is what really rubs me the wrong way with her character.

Plus, I just can't ever see Luke getting married and having kids, so that was the final straw for me. And...well I have a lot of feelings on the matter but I don't want this rant to become even longer than it already is. /has a lot of opinions on Mara Jade

I did quite like the Tales from Jabba's Palace as well as the Revenge Of The Sith novelization though (which greatly improved the movie and Anakin in my mind).

Basically, I treat the EU as fanon (since it is just published fanfiction) and if I come across details or books that I like and that I believe fit in with the movies then I'll add it to my personal headcanon. But otherwise? The EU is not for me.

edited 7th Jul '11 12:14:11 AM by RabidRainbow

these are the voyages...
Firebert That One Guy from Somewhere in Illinois Since: Jan, 2001
That One Guy
#52: Jul 7th 2011 at 6:23:31 AM

... Well at least you liked the Revenge Of The Sith novelization too.

edited 7th Jul '11 6:23:39 AM by Firebert

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Lawyerdude Citizen from my secret moon base Since: Jan, 2001
Citizen
#53: Jul 7th 2011 at 8:48:00 AM

I got into the Thrawn Trilogy as they were being published, and really liked them. After that, I read the Jedi Academy trilogy, Crystal Star (sucked), Truce at Bakura, Spectre of the Mind's Eye (sucked), the Han Solo Trilogy (good), and Dark Empire (decent but weird). I never read the Hand of Thrawn, though.

I think the consensus here is that Crystal Star was terrible. It didn't even feel like a Star Wars book. It was more like somebody took Star Wars elements and stuffed them sideways into the author's own world.

Because I loved the Thrawn books so much, I tried to find something that was that well done, but nothing ever measured up for me. I gradually lost interest in EU materials during the 90s and haven't picked one up in years.

For me, I have my own "personal" canon that I'm building on for a Star Wars RPG campaign. The great thing about fiction is that you can take or leave what you prefer since it's all imaginary anyway.

What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly.
Firebert That One Guy from Somewhere in Illinois Since: Jan, 2001
That One Guy
#54: Jul 7th 2011 at 9:12:12 AM

So far, I've only read Timothy Zahn's novels, the Revenge Of The Sith novelization, Wraith Squadron, and some Darth Maul book. It does seem like the EU is really hit or miss, though.

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Liisiko Just a teapot Since: Jan, 2010
Just a teapot
#55: Jul 8th 2011 at 10:38:30 AM

I've read few of the books (can't remember all the titles) and played The Force Unleashed. Most of what I know about the wider expanded universe comes from Tv Tropes.

edited 8th Jul '11 10:38:42 AM by Liisiko

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WarriorEowyn from Victoria Since: Oct, 2010
#56: Jul 15th 2011 at 3:37:08 PM

If you liked the Revenge of the Sith novelization, try Shatterpoint by the same author. It's set during the Clone Wars, has Mace Windu as the viewpoint character, and is basically Heart of Darkness with Jedi.

edited 15th Jul '11 3:37:46 PM by WarriorEowyn

Liisiko Just a teapot Since: Jan, 2010
Just a teapot
#57: Jul 21st 2011 at 12:32:14 PM

[up]I read the novelization, it was very good. I loved the style, how well it boiled down who each character was perfectly. I may need to look for Shatterpoint.

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TiggersAreGreat Since: Mar, 2011
#58: Aug 4th 2011 at 4:37:36 PM

Man, I've followed a number of the books. I was a big fan of Star Wars...until the NJO series. The death of Chewbacca, the death of Anakin Solo, and just a huge shake-up of the status quo ended up making me burn out. Then Legacy Of The Force comes along and Jacen Solo decides "Oh, I need to become a Darth Vader wannabe and save everyone!" The fact that he killed off Mara Jade was just upsetting - even though she did finally see what a little Sith he had turned into and decided that enough was enough. Well, at least Ben Skywalker ended up with some needed Character Development and Jaina Solo finally got a spine and killed off her bratty little twin brother Jacen Solo. The sad thing was, I wanted to celebrate his death, but when it finally occurred, I simply felt empty inside.

Oh yeah, and Tahiri killed off Gilad Pellaeon. Pellaeon was a character that I had mixed feelings over. On one hand, he always served the Empire, never defected, and was racist toward Noghri and Mon Calamarians. On the other hand, he was probably the only moderate and rational leader the Empire ever had (unlike many a Complete Monster, Smug Snake, Ax-Crazy person, or hardliner who served as leader), he knew when the Empire couldn't win, and even made sure that a peace accord was signed between the New Republic and the Empire, ending the war. His death was just a major Oh, Crap! moment. Now Tahiri has to face the consequences in Fate Of The Jedi. Rest in peace, Gilad Pellaeon.

Also, Daala being put in charge of the Galactic Alliance just rubbed me the wrong way. To it bluntly, I hate her guts. I have a good reason for this. The reason is this: she was Alderaan-killer Tarkin's lover, she committed genocide on several worlds, and attempted to do the same to other worlds (Why? Because she found out that her lover was dead and she had this need to avenge his death), and then she acts like a Hypocrite by saying that Kyp Durron is a Karma Houdini who committed genocide on Imperial worlds, while blatantly waving aside or ignoring the fact that she is just as much a Karma Houdini as he is. If she truly believed that, she should have turned herself in to be put on trial for her crimes. By the way, her Character Derailment in Legacy Of The Force seemed weird, but a thought has occurred to me: maybe she is being a Bitch in Sheep's Clothing. Yeah, she is acting like she became a better person (when she hasn't), but the pressure of being in charge of the Galactic Alliance ended up ruining her disguise. She did get knocked out of her seat, but Boba Fett broke her out of prison (curse you, Boba Fett!). I bet she's going to do the same stunts she pulled in previous Star Wars books.

edited 5th Aug '11 5:38:10 AM by TiggersAreGreat

Oh, Equestria, we stand on guard for thee!
doineedaname from Eastern US Since: Nov, 2010
#59: Aug 4th 2011 at 5:03:08 PM

[up] Daala gets even worse when you consider that she's more to blame for damage the insane Jedi have done then any member of the Jedi Order and could've saved everyone a lot of trouble if she bothered to mention that her Maw Colony Force sensitives spies had similar things happen to them.

edited 4th Aug '11 5:03:46 PM by doineedaname

TiggersAreGreat Since: Mar, 2011
#60: Aug 5th 2011 at 5:32:53 AM

I noticed how one trope seems to be a running theme in Star Wars: Poor Communication Kills. Maybe a lot of death and destruction could have been avoided had Revan simply warned people about the True Sith. A number of characters had to learn this in the hardest way possible in the Darth Bane trilogy. These characters could have warned the arrogant, know-nothing Jedi that the Sith were still alive. Indeed, up to and including the prequel trilogy, it seems that people had heard claims about the Sith being around and no one even bothered to say anything to the Jedi. Not to mention some characters knew about Palpatine being a Sith Lord and not telling anyone (Just ask Vergere and Boba Fett if you can). Unfortunately, a number of people who did find out invariably told nobody else and ended up dead. Also, a number of them were selfish villains who apparently have the special power to keep their lips sealed on certain topics. A number of characters knew about the Yuuzhan Vong threatening to invade, and yet either said nothing or just gave cryptic and unhelpful hints to characters like Luke and Mara. Jacen Solo probably could have avoided becoming a Sith if he simply tried to warn people about Abeloth and the possibility of Ben Skywalker falling to the Dark Side. Mara Jade could have at least said before trying to kill Jacen that Jacen had become a Sith. Darth Krayt knew about Anakin Skywalker killing the Sand People tribe and said nothing (he even put on Lampshade Hanging on Poor Communication Kills), and he knew about the Yuuzhan Vong presence and Vergere being a Sith and said nothing. Are we seeing a rather disturbing pattern here?

edited 5th Aug '11 5:36:10 AM by TiggersAreGreat

Oh, Equestria, we stand on guard for thee!
WarriorEowyn from Victoria Since: Oct, 2010
#61: Aug 6th 2011 at 8:17:54 PM

Problem with prequels. Authors find it cool to make characters in prequels who know what's was going on, without considering the implications of this (that they just kept hugely important information to themselves).

The problems in the Jacen-goes-evil arc (can't remember what it's called) are just plain bad writing, though. I tolerated the Yuzzhan Vong arc (and actually enjoyed Greg Bear, Elaine Cunningham and Aaron Allston parts) despite massive frustration about them killing off Anakin just when things were getting interesting, but I stopped reading the EU after the first few chapters of Betrayal revealed that Jacen was already operating on Insane Troll Logic. (It's okay to wantonly kill people if you're calm when you do it!) and that Luke was carrying the Idiot Ball (ooh, I'm having dreams that a male person I'm close to, probably family, will cause great grief! Well, that narrows it down to Jacen and Ben, the latter is the former's apprentice, so maybe keeping an eye on Jacen would be a good idea?).

TiggersAreGreat Since: Mar, 2011
#62: Aug 7th 2011 at 8:25:29 AM

I firmly believe that Legacy Of The Force demonstrated that having 3 different authors write 3 books each and make 9 books in total is a system that sounds good in theory and in practice can fall apart horribly. Aaron Allston, Karen Traviss, and Troy Denning. Aaron Allston did a good job, in my opinion, at least as good a job as he was going to get with Legacy Of The Force. Karen Traviss killed off Mara Jade, which may have gotten her a certain amount of hatred, but that pales in comparison to her pushing the Mandalorians into the plot, focusing on them seemingly at the expense of everything else, and making it seem like Jaina could only be effective if she learned Mandalorian techniques. Karen Traviss has become *gasp* a Fallen Creator. Troy Denning has a rather cynical approach to Star Wars (he wrote the book in which Anakin Solo was killed off). Some reviewers pointed out that in the last book of Legacy Of The Force, which was written by him, Jaina fought Jacen twice and both times, and she did not really apply what she learned from the Mandalorians in those fights. It can be inferred from this that Troy Denning did not like Karen Traviss and her devotion to the Mandalorians, so he delibrately avoided having Jaina use Mandalorian techniques just to give Karen Traviss the finger. Oh, and a number of people think that Troy Denning is going to become *gasp* a Fallen Creator.

Fortunately, Karen Traviss got the boot, and Christie Golden took her place in writing Fate Of The Jedi with Aaron Allston and Troy Denning. Oh, the authors writing Fate Of The Jedi have taken great pleasure in tearing down Karen Traviss's vision of the Mandalorians.

As you can see, three different writers writing 3 books each need to be able to work together. There are strong indications that relations were less than cordial between two of the authors with regards to Legacy Of The Force. If they're going to abandon that system after Fate Of The Jedi, I will call it a wise move.

edited 7th Aug '11 9:14:30 AM by TiggersAreGreat

Oh, Equestria, we stand on guard for thee!
WarriorEowyn from Victoria Since: Oct, 2010
#63: Aug 7th 2011 at 11:19:19 AM

I think Betrayal was by Aaron Allston, and it didn't show any potential. He's good at writing X-Wing pilots. Jedi, not so much.

TiggersAreGreat Since: Mar, 2011
#64: Aug 8th 2011 at 2:55:11 PM

I beg to differ. Aaron Allston has actually demonstrated an understanding of the Jedi in the book Conviction. He said regarding that book that except for Leia, none of the Jedi have actually sat in the seat of the government. You know something? That's an absolute truth! Almost none of the Jedi have ever been career politicians. They managed to remove Daala from the seat via a coup, but now they have to figure out how to handle being in charge of a government. Think about Episode III, where the Jedi tried to remove Palpatine from power. Sure, they failed, but what if they had succeeded? They would probably have had to put themselves in charge of the Old Republic, and where would that have led to? Aaron Allston is demonstrating what happens when a Jedi has to actually be a politician, and not just interacting with one. That is a major accomplishment, and I have to take off my hat to him.

Oh, Equestria, we stand on guard for thee!
doineedaname from Eastern US Since: Nov, 2010
#65: Aug 9th 2011 at 6:32:18 PM

So anyone else gotten Ascension yet? Quite a few CMOF in it, along with more stupidity courtesy of Daala

Daala tries to assassinate Jag and take over as Head of State of the Remnant. Then Jag sics the Vanguard of The Empire of The Hand on her, while she's ironically aboard the Chimaera and Pellaeon's old aid Vitor Reige shows up in command of the Bloodfin demanding that Daala surrender to Jag.

The excerpt from Apocalypse was interesting. Raynar is sent to the Killiks to learn what they know about Abeloth...who the Killiks know by name and claim to have imprisoned. Once they're told she escaped their response is "it's the end of the world as we know it."

edited 9th Aug '11 8:40:45 PM by doineedaname

TiggersAreGreat Since: Mar, 2011
#66: Aug 10th 2011 at 4:04:01 PM

That is just what I like to hear! Daala obviously experienced Character Derailment in Legacy Of The Force, but Fate Of The Jedi is clearly using Character Rerailment on the character book by book.

Oh, Equestria, we stand on guard for thee!
doineedaname from Eastern US Since: Nov, 2010
#67: Aug 10th 2011 at 5:10:26 PM

[up] It gets better, Daala was able to do that by blackmailing and threatening to kill some Moffs like Lecersen and gathering what was left of the Maw Fleet, and learned all about the conspiracy trying to get rid of her and take over.

Too bad for her the Jedi have completely left Coruscant, while the next Chief of State is elected, to hunt Abeloth and let the Lost Tribe's leaders infiltrate the Senate so they can take them all out at once as soon as Abeloth is gone.

Abeloth had the same idea as the Lost Tribe unfortunately and is impersonating a Senator and used the Force to control the Senate while manipulating the Lost Tribe to make herself Chief of State. Almost makes you wish Daala was back in charge.

edited 10th Aug '11 5:22:42 PM by doineedaname

Mort08 Pirate AND writer! from Oklahoma Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Pirate AND writer!
#68: Aug 11th 2011 at 12:53:30 PM

I was interested in learning about what happens in the EU. Then I took a look around Wookieepedia and my brain pretty much burned out. Wow.

Having managed to identify the Battle of Yavin and distinguish BBY from ABY, I'm going back to the films and then trying again. Possibly.

edited 11th Aug '11 12:53:59 PM by Mort08

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TiggersAreGreat Since: Mar, 2011
#69: Aug 11th 2011 at 5:52:37 PM

I like how in Fate Of The Jedi, Tahiri's Character Derailment from Legacy Of The Force is being addressed. She is going through Character Rerailment book by book. It was interesting to see how at her trial, she got to see footage of her killing Pellaeon. She essentially admits in her head that O.O.C. Is Serious Business, and that she can't believe such stupid and nonsensical things were coming out of her mouth at that time. I wonder what will become of her when Fate Of The Jedi is wrapped up.

Oh, Equestria, we stand on guard for thee!
TiggersAreGreat Since: Mar, 2011
#70: Aug 16th 2011 at 12:33:25 PM

[up] I have noticed that the relationship between Vestara Khai and Ben Skywalker in Fate Of The Jedi has some people referring to it as Strangled by the Red String. I admit that it does seems strange for a Sith and a Jedi to be suddenly in love. However, in the book Ascension, Vestara decided that she wanted to be a Jedi. Unfortunately, she crossed the Moral Event Horizon by killing off fellow Jedi Natua Wan to save Ben from a giant insect creature. Ben was unconscious when that happened, so he doesn't know about it...yet. Vestara doesn't plan to tell Ben about what she did. Vestara does realize that she could have found another way, and that she will never be a Jedi. She knows that she and Ben will become enemies, and that it will end in death. In short, there are indications that Strangled by the Red String is going to be subverted and subverted brutally by the end of Fate Of The Jedi.

edited 16th Aug '11 12:34:20 PM by TiggersAreGreat

Oh, Equestria, we stand on guard for thee!
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#71: Aug 16th 2011 at 4:07:18 PM

[up] Aww man, she wanted to go Light? That's a bummer. I would have preferred it had she stayed Dark. Wouldn't that be something, eh? She loves him, but not so much that she'd give up her beliefs for him, and he respects that. Wouldn't that be a cool Romance Arc?

TiggersAreGreat Since: Mar, 2011
#72: Aug 16th 2011 at 5:47:30 PM

Christie Golden is proving to be an interesting writer. I personally thought that the book Ascension was entertaining. Of course, I have noticed how some reviewers are crying foul over parts of the book, like the controversial Domestic Abuse(?) scene between Ben and Vestara. I would like to argue back that both of them are, what, 16 years old? They both have the hots for each other, and pretty much immature in a number of ways (as would be expected from someone 16 years old). Christie Golden probably did not intend the scene to look like Domestic Abuse, but it could qualify as Unfortunate Implications.

Some of the reviewers were not pleased that 8 out of 9 books have been released, and very little about Abeloth has been revealed. It could be argued that this is intentional, because Abeloth is an Eldritch Abomination, and such entities are supposed to be beyond comprehension. I'm willing to bet you, though, that information on Abeloth will finally be revealed in the last book Apocalypse. This book is supposed to be released on April 3, 2012 (why it's going to be released well into next year is beyond me).

One point reviewers have brought up is Christie Golden's odd statement about how Daala is a Tragic Hero. I have to say that I found that statement to be a little weird myself, considering how Daala is a villain, and hardly seems to be that much of a Tragic Hero. I have read the book, and I think it could be argued that Daala thinks she's a Tragic Hero (which she isn't) and the author could defend her statement by saying that this is what Daala believes herself to be, and not what she is.

This book really seems to have a number of readers divided up.

Oh, Equestria, we stand on guard for thee!
TiggersAreGreat Since: Mar, 2011
#73: Aug 18th 2011 at 7:25:28 AM

[up] I noticed that Saba was considered The Wesley to some. I don't see her that way. Okay, she was put into the Triuumvirate, despite having no familiarity with politics and despite the fact that Leia would be more suited for the position. At least Ascension fixed that by first having Leia handle the political stuff, then keeping Saba's role rather small, and then by having the Triuuvirate disbanded, which would subvert Saba being The Wesley.

I would like to share my views with Luke Skywalker being considered a scheming Chessmaster and Magnificent Bastard. I think the authors are trying to portray him as a Guile Hero. Maybe Bad Writing is messing with it, but Luke would have to be one, considering the position he's in. I don't think his strategies of searching Sith planets and pulling the Jedi off Coruscant are bad things in and of themselves. If I was looking for Sith, I would check the planets that they have historically lived on first. Also, he did say something about how if you can't find what you're hunting, then you should set bait for it and lure it out.

The fact that the Jedi don't seem to notice something wrong with the Senate on Coruscant does seem a little strange. Come to think of it, isn't this a little similar to the situation that occurred in the Prequel Trilogy? Well, it's like Aaron Allston said, the Jedi have no familiarity with politics (except for Leia). If you are not familiar with how politics work, then how can you notice that something is wrong with the Senate or the like?

Oh, Equestria, we stand on guard for thee!
MickeyFrogeater Since: Oct, 2012
#74: Sep 29th 2013 at 1:31:18 PM

A pity no one in the Republic's Senate introduced Legislation to create a Dark Side order that wasn't Sith(as Sith were apparently banned) yet focused on augmenting Life with Force Alchemy using Dark Side Dragons/Hssiss(which the Jedi accidentally created) as the control specimen.

An order with that goal and trained to see Political Power as weakness could have helped the Jedi to defeat Darth Sidious before the Galactic Empire's creation.

Journeyman Overlording the Underworld from On a throne in a vault overlooking the Wasteland Since: Nov, 2010
Overlording the Underworld
#75: Sep 29th 2013 at 5:54:59 PM

The Dark Side is the Dark Side. It doesn't matter your purpose, according to the rules, if you mess with it, you're most likely going to become a Card-Carrying Villain. Few have turned back from the Dark outside of using the Power of Love.


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