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Beorc Ridley and Ridley from hither and yon Since: Sep, 2009 Relationship Status: I know
Ridley and Ridley
#276: May 3rd 2012 at 12:40:35 PM

[up]It really pisses me off how regardless of how much he's changed, the rest of the party (particularly Jade and Tear) will call out Luke for every little thing they think he's doing wrong throughout the entire game, and yet everyone else's mistakes are either looked over, or criticized once and then instantly forgiven.

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#277: May 3rd 2012 at 1:12:05 PM

[up]

While I've never played the game, I've always wondered if his initial behavior in the earlier parts of the game left such a mark on the others that they used what happened as an excuse to pounce on him, even if his reasons were understandable. That and the fact that at first, he completely denied responsibility.

That's not totally fair, nor am I excusing what happened, but that's my theory.

One Strip! One Strip!
MuuMiuMew ~Fabulous Max~ Since: Apr, 2011
~Fabulous Max~
#278: May 6th 2012 at 5:07:59 PM

[up][up] and [up][up][up] Yes exactly! Because trusting the only person in his life who ever actually treated him with any decency over the jerkasses who wouldn't tell him a damn thing and constantly berated and teased him CLEARLY makes him a terrible person. The whole thing just pissed me off terribly.

[up]I get what you're saying, Luke was certainly a bit of a douche, but I can't help but feel that it's completely understandable that he acts the way he does. The poor kid doesn't remember a damn thing except for the past seven years of his life, where he's been cooped up in a mansion with little social interaction during that entire time. But despite that, it's made clear that he's a good guy and he wants to do the right thing. Taking all that into consideration, it just makes me feel really bad for Luke and leaves a really bad taste in my mouth about the way everyone acts towards him.

@Nicktendonick ~ I just finished the whole business with Akzeriuth.

edited 6th May '12 5:11:18 PM by MuuMiuMew

Barrylocke Reaching the Future, the hard way from Thracia Since: Aug, 2009
Reaching the Future, the hard way
#279: May 6th 2012 at 5:14:13 PM

It bothered me a bit too, but keep going sir/mam. KEEP GOING!

I know it was to keep costs down, but it would have been nice if the American Version at least added voiced skits as an extra. I'd be all over that shit if it did, instead of telling people who never played to be all over that shit.

Taking a break from FE1, for the FE8 draft instead
Alfric Sailing the Skies! from Crescent Isle Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Sailing the Skies!
#280: May 6th 2012 at 8:01:31 PM

[up][up]I agree with Barry. Definitely keep going. While it isn't my favorite in the series (that goes to Symphonia, with this game a close second), I will say that it has my favorite characters, and the main characters do get better throughout the story.

As for the Akzeriuth aftermath scene, the party only turns on him after he begins shifting the blame and denying everything, and the only parts that bugged me were Anise (for reasons you'll learn later), and Tear (since her comment was just horrible). Guy seemed more disappointed in Luke's current behavior, Ion seemed understanding, Jade was more miffed about Luke's absolute denial, and Natalia's comment was more about his personality change after his memory loss, which his aforementioned denial seemed to illustrate perfectly. I'm not saying they were at all in the right, and Luke most definitely didn't deserve all that crap, but the party wasn't necessarily being completely unreasonable on their end, at least for most of them.

edited 6th May '12 8:03:00 PM by Alfric

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Barrylocke Reaching the Future, the hard way from Thracia Since: Aug, 2009
Reaching the Future, the hard way
#281: May 6th 2012 at 8:55:51 PM

[up] I know what you mean about Anise, but remind me exactly what Tear said

Taking a break from FE1, for the FE8 draft instead
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#282: May 6th 2012 at 9:01:20 PM

Ugh. Every time I think Luke is getting a bit better, he interacts with Mieu and makes me want to strangle him again. No amount of sheltering can excuse some of his behavior.

On the gameplay side of things, let's see if I understand Fields of Fonons. So, when two elemental attacks are used, it creates a usable, colored FOF, and if someone inside that uses a skill compatible with the element, it turns into a much stronger Arte, yes? So, does it have to be the same person using both elemental Artes? Like, I can't have Jade use Stalagmite, and then Tear use Invoke Aqua to make a water Field, yes? It needs to be two skills from the same person?

I just want to make sure I know how to do this right. I think that Tear's Invoke [element] spells are going to be useful, since I can just center them on Luke to power up his artes when needed.

I think I understand it, I used a lot of Frigid Blasts against Dist's little robot on the ship by having Jade spam Splash.

edited 6th May '12 9:39:57 PM by Enlong

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Beorc Ridley and Ridley from hither and yon Since: Sep, 2009 Relationship Status: I know
Ridley and Ridley
#283: May 6th 2012 at 9:50:57 PM

I'm fairly certain two different people's spells can combine to make a Field of Fonons.

edited 6th May '12 9:51:07 PM by Beorc

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ComicX6 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#284: May 6th 2012 at 9:57:40 PM

I never really bothered with forming the Fields through dual layering, since later on in the game the spells are powerful enough to leave a completed Field in one go.

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Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#285: May 6th 2012 at 10:16:35 PM

Oh really now? I must say I'm looking forward to that.

Wait, wouldn't that make Tear's Invoke spells worthless later on?

And does Luke ever gain elemental physical attacks? It sure would be nice to be able to quickly generate Fields, like in Knight of Ratatosk, where Emil could get elemental moves to quickly and easily change the battlefield's Element.

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Alfric Sailing the Skies! from Crescent Isle Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Sailing the Skies!
#286: May 7th 2012 at 3:54:22 AM

Tears invoke spells help with a fun mechanic later on. Basically, through a rare item called a Sunlight Chamber (the rarest of four types of "Chambers" which you will learn of) that can be used on specific artes later, you can use uncolored Fo F's with that arte. The Invoke spells can be used for that, although I find them mostly useless.

As for the other stuff, Fo F's appear based on ambient fonons, so if Jade uses Stalagmite, then the earth fonons would just chill until Jade casted Stalagmite again or someone else used an earth elemental arte and jumpstarted the earth fonons in the area to create a usable Fo F.

Both Luke and Guy get an elemental attack, although Luke gains two in a sidequest. His normally learned one is Fire elemental, while Guys is Wind (and is his only one), while Luke can get two Wind artes and one Earth arte through the sidequest.

@Barry: Finally, as for what Tear said, her quote is directly "I was stupid for starting to think you had some good in you." Seriously. I thought Luke was insufferably obnoxious on my first run, and that line made me think that Tear was being a total bitch.

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#287: May 7th 2012 at 6:21:38 AM

[up]

Ouch. Again, I still need to play the games myself but I honestly wonder if Luke's little mistake (understandable as it is) left everyone in shock and looking to blame someone, and he just was an easy target.

doesn't make it right at all, but still.

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Alfric Sailing the Skies! from Crescent Isle Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Sailing the Skies!
#288: May 7th 2012 at 1:34:04 PM

That's quite likely, since not only was he being a complete ass during the trip there, but once his mistake took effect, he began whining and denying everything, which showed his complete inability to take responsibility. Doesn't excuse the party, but Luke isn't entirely blameless either, since he blindly followed Van without any questions at all (though that is due to the slight bit of brainwashing going on with him).

edited 7th May '12 1:34:26 PM by Alfric

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Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#289: May 7th 2012 at 1:36:31 PM

Who's a better healer, at the end of the day? Tear or Natalia?

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Beorc Ridley and Ridley from hither and yon Since: Sep, 2009 Relationship Status: I know
Ridley and Ridley
#290: May 7th 2012 at 2:10:58 PM

Tear. Definitely Tear. She can heal multiple people with her artes, and while the disadvantage is supposed to be that they heal less, and only take place in an area of effect (unlike Natalia's artes which only heal one person), the amount healed seems pretty negligible, and while the area of effect could be a little troublesome, by the end it doesn't matter much when Tear has healing artes that can cover most of the field.

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ComicX6 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#291: May 7th 2012 at 2:59:17 PM

Honestly, I stuck with Luke, Tear, Jade, and Guy throughout the entire game, occasionally swapping Natalia for extra healing for one or two particularly brutal boss battles mid-way through. Those four really cover all of the bases you need.

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Alfric Sailing the Skies! from Crescent Isle Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Sailing the Skies!
#292: May 7th 2012 at 3:18:28 PM

Generally, Tear is a necessity in the party, being the power-healer of the group, while Natalia is both a healer and a buff/debuffer. I find that many types of teams work, so long as they have Tear in them. My friend and I use Guy and Natalia respectively, with Tear and either Luke or Jade filling the final slot.

Natalia can also get the super awesome Revive spell as well, which is basically an Auto-Life buff, which is really helpful in Unknown mode.

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Barrylocke Reaching the Future, the hard way from Thracia Since: Aug, 2009
Reaching the Future, the hard way
#293: May 7th 2012 at 3:35:37 PM

Combatwise, Anise has her uses too,since almost all of her spells are either darkness or light. This makes her less useful when it comes to hitting hte enemies weakness compared to Jade, but it's also excellent for people that like to Fo F (Dark Fo Fs count as both Earth and Water Fo Fs, while Light Fo Fs count as Wind and Fire Fo Fs.) And IIRC, she has surprisingly solid HP and Defense for a mage character (made up for by the fact that Tokunaga is both large and slow).

Personally, I generally swapped between Luke and Guy, with a little Natalia, and since there's only 6 party members, it was easy for me to use everyone fairly regularly. Anise was the one used the least though, since she can only hit 2 elemental weaknesses.

Taking a break from FE1, for the FE8 draft instead
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#294: May 7th 2012 at 8:50:16 PM

So I just hit the major spoiler scene, and while I do think that part of how they went about things was rather harsh, it helps to put things into perspective. Luke's actions, intentional or not, killed thousands of people. From what I could tell, they only turned on him when he started to deny any responsibility in what happened. Heck, he kept trying to deny Van's responsibility and intentions, too. Actually, at one point, he even tried to backpedal on that and said it was all Van's doing, and then switched to denial about him again when they reached Yulia City. Not to put too fine a point on it, but he came across as a spoiled child playing at being a hero, and refusing to accept that his actions have consequences. It's less about blaming him for who he trusted, and more about wanting him to just stop saying Never My Fault.

The closes thing I can think to compare it to is the raid of Iselia at the start of Tales of Symphonia. Lloyd took responsibility for what happened, his intent or not, right from the start, and tried to do something to atone. I'm not much further, and I'm assured that Luke gets better, but as of where I am, he's still sulking and acting like it's not his fault.

I mean, yeah, I'd much rather be with the Symphonia cast than the Abyss cast, for personalities, but Luke is just... argh.

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jec Since: Jul, 2009
#295: May 7th 2012 at 9:49:09 PM

My first time through Abyss, I could not stand Luke at all. I spent the whole time playing glancing at his short-haired picture on the game's cover and wishing the plot would hurry along to his Important Haircut moment, which I was sure would Fix Everything Ever. ( and it is the first step in that direction, definitely.)

Second time through, the game seemed to go much faster and I never once got mad at him. The rest of the party kinda iffed me, actually, although their initial patience is noble. I don't think they ever really redeemed themselves after the Akzeurith incident, even once they'd found out the truth about Luke. (Actually, I'm surprised no one told Luke to stay home. The issue that they were being led into war by a seven-year-old who'd already screwed up majorly and had severe mental trauma from it never came up! Shouldn't it at least have gotten a mention?) Really, it's a great game to replay ( especially if you're playing with a friend who hasn't beat it yet, because see everything through such wildly different perspectives!).

edited 7th May '12 9:49:22 PM by jec

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#296: May 7th 2012 at 9:57:48 PM

Oh, the rest of the party isn't blameless.

...well, I'm most sympathetic to Tear, Guy, and Natalia (well, sort of Natalia).

Jade probably could have mentioned the stuff I'm sure he already knew sooner, and Anise's reasons for fawning over Luke are just disgusting. It may sound petty, but I think I'm gonna exile Anise from the active party for a while.

edit: And now I have to use her. Yay.

edit edit: Okay, things are picking up, for all involved. And I think Guy just earned himself a near-permanent slot on my team.

edited 7th May '12 11:45:02 PM by Enlong

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Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#297: May 12th 2012 at 5:34:05 AM

Abyss follows the good old "kick him down to the bottom so there's nowhere to climb but up" style of storytelling. Personally I don't really mind how the party treated him. Maybe it was a bit much (or maybe not, considering what happened), but more importantly they're right. Especially from Luke's perspective. He knows he screwed up big time, and everyone around him keeps reminding him of that. He wants to defend his pride, but deep down he knows they're right and that's the worst feeling of all. Embracing that feeling is the core of all his character development. It's simply not that easy to re-earn someone's trust.

edited 12th May '12 7:34:13 AM by Clarste

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#298: May 12th 2012 at 6:45:57 AM

Okay, I'm much further in the game. Luke's character is completely unrecognizable at this point. That's some amazing Character Development. And now I know why Anise was after money, and... well, a lot of things have happened. This is a very good game.

And in true Tales fashion, the story deals with some really heavy stuff. Like the nature of atonement, the question of whether free will does, or should, exist, the differences between birth and personal histories with one's loved ones, and many, many times, the question of what, exactly, is the measure of a non-human.

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Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#299: May 12th 2012 at 8:22:43 AM

Having recently played Graces, I'm a bit disappointed by the storytelling.

You basically spend most of the game chasing after Richard, only to have the entire plot info-dumped to you in the final few dungeons. Contrast most other Tales games where the heroes tend to take a more proactive role in solving the problems of their world, something I enjoy.

Charitably this is a side-effect of the more "personal" plotline they were trying to write, where the compelling aspects are supposed to be the close relationships between the characters, including the villain. In the end, even the "evil monster" is won over by trust and friendship. Which... I suppose it works but I think it came at too high a cost in terms of worldbuilding.

Quite frankly, the world feels empty. Because of the intertwined backstory of most of the party members, it feels like they don't really have any relationships with anyone else, leading to an almost completely barren world with no side characters. It's like, until we meet Pascal's family hardly anyone steps above "faceless NPC" in character development if they're not in your party. And most of those that do end up dead within a few hours of meeting them, or only have Posthumous Character Development. There's technically an explanation for why only your party can fight the final boss, but it never really feels like a world-threatening problem because there's no one in the world to be threatened, and it's not like you even tried to get the support of the world's leaders to do whatever it is you're doing. The characters often say "it's all up to us" but it never really feels like it is. It feels more like they have personal reasons for doing this and aren't even thinking much about the world. Perhaps it would have been better to keep the story to a smaller scale in the first place, rather than leaving a half-empty setting.

Nicktendonick kaleidoscope walker from A place, not B place Since: Jan, 2010
kaleidoscope walker
#300: May 12th 2012 at 9:22:33 AM

Skipping the graces spoilers because I'm not there yet, skipping the abyss spoilers because I'm on phone and can't read them.

Guy's definitly one of the stronger members of the party later-game.

He's fast and has a physical artes that create wind fof effects. Essentally allowing him to use them, go into fof and repeat (racks up grade too I must add). He can also heal himself. He's good for soloing in the arena too.

I really like using him, but I don't like falling into Complancent Gaming Syndrome, so I usually jump around. It's what I'm doing in graces, hopping between everyone, and using Richard when they "take back" the castle from his seemingly Evil Uncle. I expect to be plot twisted.

That's what I herd about graces...weaker on the story compared to the others. But if you like tales games, you'll like this.

...now when is Abyss gonna hit the psn? I'd like to reget that game (even if I can't use the disk opening exploit anymore)

Silence in the face of evil is itself evil: God will not hold us guiltless. Not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act.

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