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MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#9776: Apr 8th 2025 at 6:58:33 AM

[up][up][up][up][up] "House" is too human/civilizednote  for my purposes, and "home" is also pretty vague.

FWIW, I had been using "den" to denote the area where a cluster of nests is located (and thus metonymically to the cluster itself), but began to have second thoughts when I realized that the word is usually defined as referring to caves, tree hollows and similar highly enclosed areas that are used as nests/shelters by animals. Then again, some online dictionaries (like Merriam-Webster) define it more generally as any animal lairnote , so maybe I'm overthinking it.

The current vocabulary situation is as follows:

  • Individual — Nest: The personal dwelling of an individual.
  • Harem — Den: The communal dwelling of the troop's dominant male, his harem and their juvenile offspring. Typically located in a relatively spacious area that is nevertheless well-protected or obscured, such as on a sufficiently tall tree's fork and branches.
  • Troop — ???: The area where the troop as a whole settles in; the follower males build their nests around the den, with distance to the den and to the other males' nests being rough indicators of intra-troop social relations note .
  • Band — ???: The area where a band settles in; all member troops' nesting areas will be close to one another (typically within eyesight), but each troop's own nests will be clearly clustered together, reinforcing them as their own units while maintaining overall cohesion.
  • Tribe — Colony: Similar to the band level, but on a larger scale and with greater distance between the immediately subordinate clustersnote .
  • Horde — Supercolony: Similar to the tribe level, but on an even larger scale and with even greater distance between the immediately subordinate clusters.

Any suggestions for the missing tiers?

Edited by MarqFJA on Apr 8th 2025 at 4:58:45 PM

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Nukeli Since: Aug, 2018
#9777: Apr 8th 2025 at 9:54:46 AM

Reposting my question from prev page. For context, this is scifi and all the countries are citystates and the titles are supposed to be literal translations from alien language.

Political title ideas for an elected head of state who's badically just symbolic and powerless and the real ruling is done by an also elected council which they're not a part of? And this is an intentional situation.

Other political titles as example:

  • The First Minister ("The First" for short) — The leader of an elected council, similiar to a prime minister but there's no one above them, no monarchs or presidents.
  • Governor — A more powerful head of state (similiarly to US president maybe? Minus federalism). Not a governor in the Earth sense, but "governor" in the sense that they govern.

It wouldn't make sense to all them The First since they're not even a minister.

~*bleh*~
Trainbarrel The Story Supporter from The Star Ocean Since: Jun, 2023 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
The Story Supporter
#9778: Apr 8th 2025 at 10:01:19 AM

[up] How about...

1: "Alpha": The face of the rule as that is the first letter in the alphabet, symbolically, brings up matters to the surface where they are seen.

2: "Omega": the actual one in rule, as the "Omega" being last, have the last say in any matters.

"If there's problems, there's simple solutions."
RLH4 Cool Loser from Midgard Since: Sep, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Cool Loser
#9779: Apr 8th 2025 at 11:12:35 AM

[up][up] Clarification: Was the position always a figurehead with a symbolic role, or did the position slowly lose power over time, as that would result in a likely more imposing title. Overlord? Sovereign? Dictator? Exalted? Executor? Executive? Chief Executive?

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ArsThaumaturgis Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
#9780: Apr 8th 2025 at 12:20:31 PM

"House" is too human/civilizednote for my purposes, and "home" is also pretty vague.

Ah, I see—I think that I was perhaps thinking in terms of exonyms: in particular, from the perspective of terms that a researcher might apply to these beings. (Just as "colony" is what we call animal groups.)

But I suppose that this is for your previously-mentioned "humans but without technology" work—is that right? And thus that these are their endonyms?

Looking over at the thesaurus, I might suggest one or more of "lair", "lodge", "sanctuary", or "shelter".

Maybe "shelter" for "band"? (With the idea being not only that their dwellings shelter them, but that there's safety in the numbers of their conspecifics.)

And then "lodge" for "troop"? (It's a word that's sort of homey, and so appropriate to a place where beings live—but it does also have meanings that are less civilised than the usual meaning of "house".)

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MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#9781: Apr 8th 2025 at 2:39:54 PM

Well, not quite. You'll notice that even the exonyms used by real-life scientists for naming nonhuman primates' social units (troop, band, colony, etc.) avoid seeming too "human civilization-y". That said, the narrative would still use the terms from the species' perspective and handwave it with Translation Convention.

But yeah, you're spot on; it does relate to that "humans but more like nonhuman primates biologically and behaviorally" concept.

Hmmmm... Rather than "shelter", how about "haven"? It has similar connotations of safety, just like you suggest, and accomodates the larger scale of a band, compared to "shelter" evoking the idea of a small, enclosed place for just a few individuals; yes, I know it's used for "grander" places, but the small-scale examples are what first come to mind when using the word alone.

And as for the troop level, I'm actually torn between your suggestion of "lodge" on the one hand, and playing on the troop being a family unit at its core (with follower males being essentially "adopted" into the family) by coining the term "troophold" (in the same vein as "household" or "stronghold"); the former notably has the benefit of its Old French etymon loge having (per Wiktionary at least) the meaning of "arbor" (i.e. a "grove of trees"), and is also used to denote the dwelling of beavers near ponds/lakes (i.e. it has existing usage for an animal dwelling).

Edited by MarqFJA on Apr 8th 2025 at 1:50:03 PM

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
ArsThaumaturgis Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
#9782: Apr 9th 2025 at 7:25:28 AM

Well, not quite. You'll notice that even the exonyms used by real-life scientists for naming nonhuman primates' social units (troop, band, colony, etc.) avoid seeming too "human civilization-y".

I'm inclined to doubt that it's so hard-and-fast a rule that it's worth discarding such options out-of-hand, myself. And I could see scientists using more "civilised" words for a particularly-intelligent species.

But anyway, this is besides the point.

Rather than "shelter", how about "haven"?

I think that "haven" is a good word. ^_^

... coining the term "troophold" ...

Hmm... I don't know.

I feel like a coinage—and perhaps especially a portmanteau-style coinage—feels a little out of keeping with the other names that you so far have. More like a term that they themselves might invent, where the others feel to me more like terms that we might apply to them.

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MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#9783: Apr 9th 2025 at 9:05:43 AM

I feel like a coinage—and perhaps especially a portmanteau-style coinage—feels a little out of keeping with the other names that you so far have. More like a term that they themselves might invent, where the others feel to me more like terms that we might apply to them.

Yeah, you're right. And "lodge" is looking more attractive the more I toss it around in my head; hell, apparently it has "den" as an alternate meaning, especially for gregarious animals in general.

For the record, the reason I nixed your earlier suggestion of "rookery" is because it's heavily associated with being a breeding ground rather than just the general habitation kind of nesting. That said, I would probably use it as a term for areas where bachelor members of this species happen to congregate during mating seasons for courtship purposes.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Codae Since: Aug, 2022
#9784: Apr 11th 2025 at 8:18:27 PM

Re: 9777: I suggest "Declarer". The essential role of a ceremonial head of state is that certain activities of the state are made real by the head of state's participation in a ceremony, and what more natural way is there to effect them than by declaring them so?

Nukeli Since: Aug, 2018
#9785: Apr 12th 2025 at 2:31:20 AM

@Trainbarrel

Titles derived from the alphabet of a random human language wouldn't really make sense in-universe. I haven't even decided if they even have alphabet, or if they use logograms or syllabaries.

[up]

That could work.

~*bleh*~
RLH4 Cool Loser from Midgard Since: Sep, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Cool Loser
#9786: Apr 12th 2025 at 6:49:54 AM

[up][up] Proclaimer and Herald could also work as variants

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Nukeli Since: Aug, 2018
#9787: Apr 16th 2025 at 10:27:28 AM

I don't suppose anybody in here is Japanese or speaks Japanese?

I'm trying to make up names by combining kanji, but i'm not sure if the results sound masculine or feminine, or believable.

This one i made up first for example. Does it sound like a name? Does it sound male or female? Should i add something to the beginning or end, or is it fine? (Japanese names seem to usually be two kanjis long though)

  • 夜鳥 (Yatori?)

I got the kanjis' romanization from behindthename.

Edited by Nukeli on Apr 16th 2025 at 8:30:07 PM

~*bleh*~
jouXIII The One Who Knows Many Things from Between the Multiverses (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
The One Who Knows Many Things
#9788: Apr 16th 2025 at 11:07:40 AM

Hmm... It should work as a name, though it could also be read as Yadori or Yotori. If you want to make it more masculine or feminine, there are couple of options:

  • for masculine, Yatomaru(夜鳥丸),note  Yatorō(夜鳥郎 or 夜鳥朗)note , Yatosuke(夜鳥助)note , Yatohiko(夜鳥彦)note 

  • for feminine, Yasuka(夜鳥)note , Yatoko(夜鳥子)note , Yatomi(夜鳥美)note , Yatohime(夜鳥姫)note 

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Marchen Too hot (Hot damn) from Somewhere Out in Space (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
Too hot (Hot damn)
#9789: Apr 16th 2025 at 11:17:47 AM

Not a Japanese speaker, so my ability to help is limited, but some googling revealed that at least one person thought Yatori kinda sounded like a name. In Kamisama Kiss, there's a Yokai named Yatori (written as 夜烏) who's male.

Read Otr of the Flame (She/Her)
Nukeli Since: Aug, 2018
#9790: Apr 16th 2025 at 11:41:17 AM

[up][up]

I see. I was going for "nocturnal bird" though.

But, i started wondering. Behindthename says 夜 is "ya" and 鳥 is "tori"note , but when i put 夜鳥 in Google Translate, it gets rendered as "Yachō"note  (or "Yoru Tori" when i put a space in between).

What's up with that? Is 夜 also romanized as "yoru"? Or are some kanjis pronounced differently when they're in a name?

[up]

Well, good that it exists somewhere i guess. The character i was trying to name "night bird" is female though. But since it still isn't a real name, is it really gendered.

Edited by Nukeli on Apr 16th 2025 at 9:46:23 PM

~*bleh*~
Marchen Too hot (Hot damn) from Somewhere Out in Space (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
Too hot (Hot damn)
#9791: Apr 16th 2025 at 11:45:55 AM

[up] Actually, I believe all kanji have multiple readings. They were basically all imported from China, you see, so all of them have a Japanese and a Chinese reading, plus probably some others since writing is tricky.

Edited by Marchen on Apr 16th 2025 at 8:46:26 PM

Read Otr of the Flame (She/Her)
jouXIII The One Who Knows Many Things from Between the Multiverses (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
The One Who Knows Many Things
#9792: Apr 16th 2025 at 1:19:14 PM

What Marchen said. One good example of this is kanji , which means "life".

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Logaritmus Since: Dec, 2022
#9793: Apr 16th 2025 at 5:02:28 PM

I need some advice on the title of the story.

What it's about:

In odd chapters, a modern military unit and a guerrilla group fight each other, have some military objectives, but practically always kill each other. In doing so, certain named characters from one and the other recur.

In even-numbered chapters, the same named characters meet at various entertainment centers, have fun, date, and so on.

While the later chapters refer to events in the previous ones, including deaths, but without any tie-ins, there is talk of several fatal incidents at some point in the past with no connection to ongoing battles that are taken a bit more seriously, and some names and titles refer to Norse mythology.

The last chapter then makes clear what readers familiar with that mythology should know, namely that we are following the fallen warriors of Valhalla in their cycle of fighting and celebration.

But what shall I call all this? What would do the trick, not be too vague, and at the same time not blow the reveal (which, while not somehow deeply hidden, I still don't want to burn it at the start)?

RLH4 Cool Loser from Midgard Since: Sep, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Cool Loser
#9794: Apr 16th 2025 at 5:36:01 PM

Valr means the slain, and sounds kind of like you're making a pun on Valor, which is already the name of a billion random nothing books, but it's a little "totally not Valhalla, for real dudes"

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Nukeli Since: Aug, 2018
#9795: Apr 16th 2025 at 11:28:52 PM

[up]x3

Is there some other reading of 夜鳥 that would sound more feminine?

~*bleh*~
jouXIII The One Who Knows Many Things from Between the Multiverses (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
The One Who Knows Many Things
#9796: Apr 17th 2025 at 4:17:11 AM

Hmm... Well, beside Yasuka, there's also Yaka and Yoruka, and I guess Yadori could work as more feminine name.

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Nukeli Since: Aug, 2018
#9797: Apr 17th 2025 at 6:45:11 AM

When i type "Yaka" into Google Translate, it gets translated as "grilled", so that would propably be a bad idea. Unless Google is convinced that it's a mistyping of some different word and is showing me a translation of that instead of the word i typed (that has happened to me a few times in a different language).

I'll consider the other three though.

~*bleh*~
ArsThaumaturgis Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
#9798: Apr 17th 2025 at 9:06:22 AM

@Logaritmus: What about something like "Battle's Elect"?

(I'd suggest "The Chosen of Battle"—but that might be a bit on-the-nose, and seems to also be a term used in Exalted.)

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Logaritmus Since: Dec, 2022
#9799: Apr 17th 2025 at 11:38:08 AM

@Ars Thaumaturgis: Maybe I should say, that my work isn't in English, I looked for ideas, not exact words, here. And your ideas have good direction and help. Thanks.

Starbug Men of Letters Field Agent from Variable (Seven Years' War) Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
Men of Letters Field Agent
#9800: Apr 17th 2025 at 12:18:26 PM

My urban fantasy setting. The spell-slingers in my universe, when they first learning Magic 101, generally have a focus of some sort (a piece of jewelry, a wand, a deck of cards, an animal skull; whatever). At some point (usually within 3-4 years), they experience a moment akin to Forrest Gump’s leg braces flying off, where they don’t NEED the focus anymore. A lot of mages still hold onto theirs for sentimental reasons, but not all of them.

However, with some, the focus becomes a crutch for them, to the point where a non-focused spell only operates at about 80-90%. A lot of times, it’s because the item is of great significance.

Say, for instance, a signet ring with a fragment of three million old obsidian from Africa. The ring itself was forged by the Alfheim from a mix of stainless steel and fifth-circle demon blood, before being utilized by warrior-queen Raafkoni during the Third Reconciliation. You know, ordinary stuff.

I’m trying to think of a nickname for these “focused” mages. Not exactly an insulting one, but it’s clear that the item’s a security blanket of sorts.

I’ve faked death under many names. Carswell; Trelawney; Marcato; Haddo; Gallion; Felton; Riddle…

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