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storyyeller More like giant cherries from Appleloosa Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
More like giant cherries
#251: Jun 26th 2011 at 6:47:27 AM

It's especially funny as fracking is an actual term in the gas industry. As in, "Tell these fracking companies that their fracking chemicals are poisoning the water supply!"

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play
Kzickas Since: Apr, 2009
#252: Jun 26th 2011 at 8:40:51 AM

I hate when authors go to such extreme lenghts to make some unique event seem plausible that it becomes suspention of disbelief shattering that the event hasn't happened before.

BonsaiForest Since: Jan, 2001
#254: Jun 26th 2011 at 11:05:02 AM

[up][up] I think I know what you mean, though I too would like an example, as I can't think of any offhand. But there have been some incidents in stories where I thought "why hasn't this happened before?", since the reason the event is occurring in that story makes it seem like it could not only happen, but happen at any time in the past.

I think it's an example of one of those times were certain questions are best left unanswered.

edited 26th Jun '11 11:05:26 AM by BonsaiForest

vifetoile Since: Jan, 2001
#255: Jun 26th 2011 at 11:27:01 AM

[up][up][up] I've got one. In Harry Potter, Harry survived Avada Kedavra because his mother died to save him, standing in the way of his murderer, and her love protected him even after death. You're telling me that this is the first time in history that a child was protected in this way, — or that alternately it has happened before but the records never exist, or the children died of starvation afterwards? You're kidding me.

DomaDoma Three-Puppet Saluter Since: Jan, 2001
Three-Puppet Saluter
#256: Jun 26th 2011 at 11:52:42 AM

It only protected him from said attempted murderer. The rebound would kill someone without Voldemort's countermeasures in place, so even if the Charles Warren-style dumbass Ministry ever figured out the rebound effect, the protection wouldn't come into play.

Hail Martin Septim!
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#257: Jun 26th 2011 at 5:33:31 PM

Plus, do we know the origins of Avada Kedavra? Is it a really ancient spell of dark arts, or is it something more recent, possibly a spell Voldemort invented himself?

vifetoile Since: Jan, 2001
#258: Jun 27th 2011 at 12:22:31 AM

[up] We never learn about its origins, but surely if Voldemort himself had invented it we would have learned about it (as any other eerie connections to Voldemort were most certainly highlighted.) The way that a teacher talks about Avada Kedavra and its sister curses, they're been forbidden in wizarding law for a long, long time, and they have pretty basic effects (kill; torture; enslave.)

Also, [up][up] I mean to say, even just one instance of a mother dying to protect her child, the resulting protection blows the murderer apart, even if the protection stops there, that's still impressive. But JKR wants me to believe that no (witch) mother before Lily has ever said "Don't kill my baby, kill me" in all history?

edited 27th Jun '11 12:24:03 AM by vifetoile

chihuahua0 Since: Jul, 2010
#259: Jun 27th 2011 at 5:40:17 AM

[up] Anthropic Principle, my boy. If Harry didn't survive. there wouldn't be a story.

jewelleddragon Also known as Katz from Pasadena, CA Since: Apr, 2009
Also known as Katz
#260: Jun 27th 2011 at 9:05:46 AM

[up]It's not that Harry shouldn't survive, it's that other children should.

FreezairForALimitedTime Responsible adult from Planet Claire Since: Jan, 2001
Responsible adult
#261: Jun 27th 2011 at 1:01:18 PM

But then again, one wonders how often Avada Kedavra was used on children—or children in the vicinity of their parents, since if one was planning to murder a child, doing in in front of witnesses seems kinda dumb.

"Proto-Indo-European makes the damnedest words related. It's great. It's the Kevin Bacon of etymology." ~Madrugada
chihuahua0 Since: Jul, 2010
#262: Jun 27th 2011 at 1:06:55 PM

[up] Right. I doubt there would be enough people in Harry's position for the fact that love could deflect Avada Kedavra to come to light. If anyone witnessed the act, they either got killed or never told the tail.

In short, it isn't implausible.

Let's rerail this thread. There's a Harry Potter topic for this in Writer's Block.

MrAHR Ahr river from ಠ_ಠ Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Ahr river
#263: Jun 27th 2011 at 1:58:48 PM

Well, it's not just a "you go, I'll stay here and die for you, so you will be immune to hisher magic"

There needs to be a very clear cut "if they hadn't done that, they would have lived" thing going on.

Read my stories!
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#264: Jun 27th 2011 at 2:24:11 PM

I haven't really seen this in books, but I definitely have in other types of stories, especially those aimed at kids, so I wouldn't be surprised if this is in kid/teen literature, so...

"The ideal romantic match for a character is his oldest platonic friend of the opposite gender."

I don't like it because it's so obvious. Male protagonist has female friend? Well, dadgummit, they're gonna be making out before the movie's over! Really, it's like there's literally no other way it could go. You end up hoping that's not the way it's going to go. You're not interested in the protagonist's love life because there's only one way it can go.

Case in point: the little known Disney flick Sky High. This is actually one of my favorite Disney movies, but if you ask me it totally dropped the ball on the Romance Arc. There's this Adorkable guy who has to go to superhero school, but he doesn't have any powers. Long story short, he gets them (trailer ruined it first, folks) and an awesome girlfriend (Mary Elizabeth Winstead!) thrown in for good measure. The relationship is, IMO, written really well for Disney, neither are really "perfect" for each other (she's a bit controlling, he neglects his friends for her in a way that wasn't really his fault and was totally his parents'), and you might think, hey, the conflict of the romance arc is going to be about him realizing he needs to respect both his friends and her. Meanwhile, his Granola Girl best friend is revealed to have a crush on him, and embarks on Operation: Jealousy by pretending to go out with the main guy's arch rival. Hints are dropped that they may be falling for each other for real (or at least that she's fallen for him). There's also a Beta Couple in a Slap-Slap-Kiss relationship, and an unpaired Black and Nerdy guy who must really be hating the fact that there are an odd number of main characters right now. Every things seem nice and neat, except that in the last quarter or so of the movie, Awesome Girlfriend undergoes a complete personality transplant (there were maybe two things that might've hinted at this, one being that Awesome Girlfriend's best friend was The Libby and the other requiring the viewer to correctly identify a D-list actor under heavy makeup in the shadows), Main Guy goes running into the arms of Granola Girl, sacrificing their chemistry as friends for the oldest cliche in the book, and Arch Rival hooks up with a Sight Gag. Awesome Bitchy Girlfriend's "evil" persona is just cool enough to still enjoy the rest of the movie, though.

And now to ponder why I just wrote a Wall of Text about an obscure movie for 14-year-olds...

edited 27th Jun '11 2:32:13 PM by HamburgerTime

chihuahua0 Since: Jul, 2010
#265: Jun 27th 2011 at 4:41:19 PM

[up] That bothers me a little bit too. I mean, considering that people tend to not be attracted to people they grow up with. In my writing, I'm having it so the Last Girl Wins and such. No best friend romances here.

LizardBite Shameless Self-Promoter from Two Galaxies Over Since: Jan, 2001
#266: Jun 27th 2011 at 5:14:33 PM

Hell, when I write male/female best friends, even if I start with the intention of them falling for each other, they never do. It's like the characters just flat out refuse to do so.

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#267: Jun 27th 2011 at 5:41:42 PM

[up] I know what you mean. I can't do it, so I just designed my setting to avoid it. A relationship wouldn't work well is one side is a human, and the other is a humanoid alien with a lot of mercury in their biochemistry.

CarnivorousMoogle Carnie M. from In Your Fridge Since: Sep, 2009
Carnie M.
#268: Jun 27th 2011 at 6:46:00 PM

Always Chaotic Evil races. Especially if there's no real reason for them all to be evil other than 'just happening to develop that way' (being actively corrupted by a dark force or manufactured specifically for war are at least understandable). Especially combined with Beauty Equals Goodness (and since the race in question is Always Chaotic Evil...). Especially if the characters themselves show hatred and disdain for the entire species (as opposed to the specific ones who are causing problems), and are not called out on this/otherwise shown to be either assholes or stricken with grief over their Doomed Home Town which has been destroyed by a group of the 'evil' race. Especially if the entirety of said race is wiped out, banished to a horrible Crapsack World, or otherwise faces some horrific fate, without some sort of reservation being made for the innocents/neutrals.

edited 27th Jun '11 6:48:17 PM by CarnivorousMoogle

Still working on Good Style, so bear with me.
Firebert That One Guy from Somewhere in Illinois Since: Jan, 2001
That One Guy
#269: Jun 27th 2011 at 6:50:05 PM

[up] This. So very this. I love when stories subvert this by at least having a party character that fulfills the My Species Doth Protest Too Much trope as a contrast to the rest of their species to show that other races can have individuality too.

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FreezairForALimitedTime Responsible adult from Planet Claire Since: Jan, 2001
Responsible adult
#270: Jun 27th 2011 at 6:50:08 PM

@Hamburger: I hate that trope so much, because I have such a friend. Really, the whole "If male character gets female best friend, she will be his love interest" thing really rankles me. Few things kill the flames of passion quite like "You attended my fifth birthday party."

"Proto-Indo-European makes the damnedest words related. It's great. It's the Kevin Bacon of etymology." ~Madrugada
PDown It's easy, mmkay? Since: Jan, 2012
It's easy, mmkay?
#271: Jun 27th 2011 at 7:06:12 PM

Is meeting one's life partner at 13 too early for believability? (For the record, she dies and becomes a The Lost Lenore at 18.)

At first I didn't realize I needed all this stuff...
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#272: Jun 27th 2011 at 7:10:08 PM

[up][up][up][up] Actually had to dissuade an e-friend from doing this in one of his stories (wiping out a "completely evil" race, I mean). And reportedly, it bothered Tolkien that he never could figure out a decent way to work good orcs into his stories.

[up][up] And the final punch to the gut, at least in the example I cited? One of the production staff from the movie got in touch with the (small but existing) fandom and revealed that, the original intended pairing? Arch Rival/Granola Girl. There seems to be literally no reason they changed it, other than giving in to the cliche.

edited 27th Jun '11 7:11:02 PM by HamburgerTime

illegalcheese X-14: Killer Cheese Since: Apr, 2010
X-14: Killer Cheese
#273: Jun 27th 2011 at 11:17:27 PM

If I recall, Word of God also said that the main character and Granola Girl split up, and she ends up dating the arch rival in high school. Or something.

Fancolors I draw stuff. from Land of the Mamelucos Since: Nov, 2010
I draw stuff.
#274: Jun 28th 2011 at 7:54:44 AM

Am I the only one who hates having characters being described as celebrities?

I understand it can work really well if a certain scene/character alludes to something that is part of public consciousness. But, goddamn, am I really supposed to know how an "Asian George Clooney with a little bit of Sean Connery and Steven Seagal" looks like?

BonsaiForest Since: Jan, 2001
#275: Jun 28th 2011 at 8:09:56 AM

Oh yeah, I always hated that also. How was I supposed to know what they were talking about? And even when I did know the people, I still thought it was a dumb way to describe someone. I never ever thought in those kinds of terms.


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