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Sorry, McCain. Sorry, Amos. Goodbye, Don't Ask Don't Tell.

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snailbait bitchy queen from psych ward Since: Jul, 2010
bitchy queen
#76: Dec 20th 2010 at 3:05:33 PM

^ It doesn't. And if it does, people should be taught that someone else's sexuality should not matter to them.

If anything, repealing DADT would boost morale because gay soldiers don't have to be constantly tip-toeing around their sexuality. I wonder why nobody has ever addressed that.

"Without a fairy, you're not even a real man!" ~ Mido from Ocarina of Time
IanExMachina The Paedofinder General from Gone with the Chickens Since: Jul, 2009
The Paedofinder General
#77: Dec 20th 2010 at 3:17:13 PM

[up]

Haha that was the point I was going to make if someone had replied to my question :)

As you say it would be better to sort out the base of the problem, such as you say teaching others that other's sexuality shouldn't matter.

Also closer to On Topic:

What the UK Mo D says about LGBT being allowed to openly serve in the armed forces:

Edit: Following the defeat of a vote in the US Senate to debate ending the US army’s Don’t ask, Don’t tell’ policy, the British army claims that allowing gay and lesbians to openly served has improved the armed forces.

edited 20th Dec '10 3:20:38 PM by IanExMachina

By the powers invested in me by tabloid-reading imbeciles, I pronounce you guilty of paedophilia!
Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#78: Dec 20th 2010 at 4:38:03 PM

If anything, repealing DADT would boost morale because gay soldiers don't have to be constantly tip-toeing around their sexuality. I wonder why nobody has ever addressed that.

It would boost the morale of an extremely small minority of people in the military, down to only a few thousand people in a military of almost a million.

Not to say I disagree with getting rid of it, I've supported getting rid of it as long as it was done appropriately the entire time. My compromise still stands!

^

See, this is what we should have been doing from day 1 in regards to this issue, having more candid discussion with the armed forces of nations that have openly gay servicemembers. Then you have some concrete results instead of just speculation.

Kino Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Californicating
EthZee Since: Oct, 2010
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#81: Dec 20th 2010 at 5:07:58 PM

Well the building I guard at is chock full of prior service people. With exception to like one or two all said it was good it was gone. As long as they follow the same rules and do their job it doesn't really fucking matter. Its cool as long as they do their job.

Who watches the watchmen?
snailbait bitchy queen from psych ward Since: Jul, 2010
bitchy queen
#82: Dec 20th 2010 at 6:19:14 PM

@Barkey: Oh, of course. I didn't mean it would necessarily boost the morale of straight soldiers. Just the ones who are gay who no longer have to be on constant guard all the time.

"Without a fairy, you're not even a real man!" ~ Mido from Ocarina of Time
Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#83: Dec 20th 2010 at 7:16:47 PM

As harsh as it sounds, I don't care all that much about the feelings of such a small minority in the military if it causes upheaval of the majority.

I don't think it will, I'm sure we'll just find a cool normal and adjust, the same way we always have. This whole thing is just sort of obnoxious to me with how smug some people are acting though.

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#84: Dec 20th 2010 at 7:34:15 PM

... how small of a minority do you think that is?

Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#85: Dec 20th 2010 at 7:37:43 PM

A few thousand, which seems like lots, but as I said, in a force about a million strong, isn't very large in the scheme of things.

I guess the only thing I'm not looking forward to is a few assholes screwing things up and making people uncomfortable, every group has assholes, the gay community is no different. They in no way represent the majority obviously.

Karkadinn Karkadinn from New Orleans, Louisiana Since: Jul, 2009
Karkadinn
#86: Dec 20th 2010 at 10:10:49 PM

Given that estimates of overall gay populations hover around ten percent, there should be a hundred thousand, not just a few thousand, gay people in the military. This is of course assuming that most of them haven't been driven out by DADT already.

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.
Roman Love Freak Since: Jan, 2010
#87: Dec 20th 2010 at 11:04:30 PM

The only source I've ever seen cited for the 10% number is the Kinsey Report, which uses it for any one who has ever had sex with a member of the same sex ever, even once, including rape, among prison populations in the 60s.

I think it's safe to say service members by percent who identify as gay or have regular homosexual partners are quite a bit lower than that.

edited 21st Dec '10 6:06:19 AM by Roman

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Karkadinn Karkadinn from New Orleans, Louisiana Since: Jul, 2009
Karkadinn
#88: Dec 20th 2010 at 11:08:46 PM

"What do you mean when you use the word 'gay'? If you mean people who identify as gay, lesbian, or bisexual in a survey, then the answer is that it's likely not one in ten, but closer to one in twenty. A recent government survey found that 4 percent of adults aged 18-45 identified as 'homosexual' or 'bisexual.' A similar proportion of voters identify as GLB. If you define gay as having same-sex attractions or behaviors, you do get higher proportions that are a bit closer to the one in ten figure."

http://gaylife.about.com/od/comingout/a/population.htm

Even conservatively, still more than a 'few thousand.' And of course we could also get into the fact that more people would happily identify as being gay or bi if there weren't social issues attached to it.

edited 20th Dec '10 11:16:52 PM by Karkadinn

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.
Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#89: Dec 21st 2010 at 3:08:12 AM

Given that estimates of overall gay populations hover around ten percent, there should be a hundred thousand, not just a few thousand, gay people in the military. This is of course assuming that most of them haven't been driven out by DADT already.

10 percent of the American population being gay doesn't mean 10 percent of the military is. We tend to attract certain types of mindsets that aren't as common in the gay community. We also aren't exactly the type of environment that most gay folks feel that welcome in anyway.

Around 2 percent of Americans are in or have been in the military, I don't believe this 10 percent stuff whatsoever. Maybe a little over ten thousand, sure, but not 10 percent.

edited 21st Dec '10 3:09:04 AM by Barkey

neoYTPism Since: May, 2010
#90: Dec 21st 2010 at 5:37:56 AM

My psychology professor told me that homosexuals are about 3 percent of the general population, NOT 10 percent. I assume he would have good reason to know what he is talking about.

edited 21st Dec '10 5:38:19 AM by neoYTPism

AllanAssiduity Since: Dec, 1969
#91: Dec 21st 2010 at 5:53:51 AM

^ Could be working on out-of-date information.

Dammit, sexualities.

carbon-mantis Collector Of Fine Oddities from Trumpland Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Married to my murderer
Collector Of Fine Oddities
#92: Dec 21st 2010 at 6:26:27 AM

It'll be interesting to survey the demographics in a few years time and see who's-in-what-position. I remember reading an old report(can't find it right now, unfortunately)on integration of gays in the Israeli military that stated that most of the openly gay personnel were not serving in front-line roles.

Another old report I had bookmarked, over 16 years old but still has some interesting information nonetheless.

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#93: Dec 21st 2010 at 7:18:52 AM

Well, I think we're making the fallacy in thinking that only the people currently IN the military "count." After all, it's not just the people in the military-it's the people who WOULD be in the military and who SHOULD be in the military, but weren't because of DADT.

Weren't there a lot of Arab translators or something that we had to kick out due to DADT?

neoYTPism Since: May, 2010
#94: Dec 21st 2010 at 4:45:57 PM

"Could be working on out-of-date information." - AA

Again, I'm guessing he would have taken that possibility into account himself, and I would trust his assessment of whatever the implications of that would be, seeing as how he is an expert on the subject and all.

Chalkos Sidequest Proliferator from The Internets Since: Oct, 2010
Sidequest Proliferator
#95: Dec 22nd 2010 at 8:47:31 AM

With due respect to your psychology professor, this particular subject is notoriously difficult to get a fix on with any degree of accuracy. There are so many different assessments, varying from 1 percent to 10 percent, that it's hard to say that any one is an authoritative assessment.

BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#96: Dec 29th 2010 at 9:30:04 AM

One thing I didn't notice in this thread, is that DADT is not instantly repealed - technically, until they rewrite the Uniform Code of Military Justice, they can kick out any two people caught having sex when they're not supposed to. They don't, usually, just do little things like demote them and take half their paycheck. But given that the entire military hierarchy has publically supported the repeal, it's now a quite finite amount of time.

Being active duty Navy (which one troper way [up] there called "the gayest service" [lol]) I've known plenty of people I think were gay. With one exception, they've all been fairly cool people, good workers, and less likely to screw things up. (That one exception was just a homo Creepy Stalker Guy, of which I've sadly known several hetero CSG's in the Navy.)

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#97: Dec 29th 2010 at 9:43:05 AM

I live on a navy base back home, the navy really aren't as gay as folks think.

Then again it's not a real navy base, it's Hueneme, home of the Seabees, where even the women tote machine guns. tongue

Changing the UCMJ always takes time, that's how changing laws work in any setting, but it shouldn't be long. If we strictly obeyed the UCMJ, we would only be allowed to have heterosexual sex in the missionary position, in the dark.(It's a common joke, as oral and anal fall under the medieval "sodomy" charge in the UCMJ that nobody ever gets called out on)

I'll probably be a little annoyed by the fallout of this situation for me personally though, I'm still skeptical as to how much teasing I'll get when the base starts to find out now that it's repealed, but my roomate is bi. I've known this for a long time since he told me and my best friend(his brother) and we've been cool with it, even hung out with his boyfriend a few times. I'm cool with it, but I think I'm going to be earning some stockade time if anybody decides to mess with me about living with a poof.

edited 29th Dec '10 9:46:38 AM by Barkey

MajorTom Since: Dec, 2009
#98: Dec 29th 2010 at 11:06:53 AM

I live on a navy base back home, the navy really aren't as gay as folks think.

That won't stop either the Marines or Army from making gay jokes at the Navy's expense.

Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#99: Dec 29th 2010 at 11:29:36 AM

Oh, it doesn't stop us either. I prefer to let the Marines in on the fun though.

"Why do sailors have nametapes on their trousers?"

"So the Marines know who they're fuckin!"

edited 29th Dec '10 11:51:32 AM by Barkey

neoYTPism Since: May, 2010
#100: Dec 29th 2010 at 11:37:35 AM

"With one exception, they've all been fairly cool people, good workers, and less likely to screw things up." - Blue Ninja

I could imagine that may have something to do with DADT itself; if they're at risk for being fired if found out to be gay, that's all the more incentive to make extra sure that their superiors have plenty of reasons to keep them on the job.

I'm not implying that would justify DADT, I'm just throwing that out there.


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