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Neon Genesis Evangelion: from a non-otaku point

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juancarlos11 Since: Aug, 2011
#1: Dec 16th 2010 at 2:53:10 PM

at first i thought of a review, then liveblog. but i decided to discuss this with people in fairly straightforward manner and to be able to retreat and whatnot. Ok here it goes:

I was never much of an anime fan (and I don't think i ever will be) but Tvtropes it's the ultimate gateway drug. and NGE it's one of the most discussed anime both in here and outside in the world. so i decided to check it out. now, I'm Latin-American and here the culture towards anime has always been a little more accepting. whereas i always hear how in the US anime is pretty much only for teenagers. here it's both seen by kids and teens. DBZ is one of the most famous shows of all time around here and Saint Seiya is beloved. to put it better think of Doctor Who. anyway i watched anime when i was a kid and then I grew bored with it. i just didn't like the character design the cultural clashed with mine in certain ways and the fact that i didn't like much of the characters in the series to come (I hate naruto and sasuke).

Anyway, in that Mindset i was Wiki Walking around here and then i Saw that they decided to add the moment tabs around here and decided to make a little bet with myself. decided to see the first anime that had the four-trick (Heart Warming, Funny, Awesome, tear jerker) and lo and behold it was NGE. now thanks to POP Culture Osmosis i Already knew some stuff about it (Congratulations, and the fact that tthe series will fuck with my mind) and i really doubted for a long time to see the series, especially because jappanese it's a personal fountain of narm (I don't know why, but i can't take it seriously) and the more obvious fact that you normally watch a series expecting too give you at least a satisfying ending. but then i decided to do a leap of faith and Big One at that.

and i have to say that it's been weird and funny. people tell me that i will kill myself because it seems like Tv Tropes is talking about another show entirely. I've been laughing in every episode and i've snarked like a bastard out of hell (doesn't make sense but i like the pun) and i've enjoyed it too but i haven't seen the traumatizing mind screw i've been expecting. maybe it's because i'm a fan of David Lynch

so i have to ask by which point i'm getting what i was promised (number of ep specifically)

i'm around the 10th ep so no spoilers in the discussion please and the questions

It's not exactly naive. And it can happen. But it's tough. And definetly worthwhile.
Sporkaganza I'm glasses. Since: May, 2009
I'm glasses.
#2: Dec 16th 2010 at 2:55:29 PM

No wonder you've found it fine so far, you haven't even gotten to the depressing/scary/weird shit yet. Check back in with us around the 17-or-18-episode mark (IIRC) and we'll see what you have to say.

Not that those parts aren't good...

Always, somewhere, someone is fighting for you. As long as you remember them, you are not alone.
melloncollie Since: Feb, 2012
#3: Dec 16th 2010 at 2:58:07 PM

i haven't seen the traumatizing mind screw i've been expecting.

i'm around the 10th ep

[lol]

You haven't seen anything yet.

That said, I didn't find End Of Evangelion or the end of the TV series as horrible as everyone's been saying. Confusing as hell, the end of the TV series is, but not to "ARGH DEPRESSING MIND SCREW" levels. Tropers just exaggerate everything, I think.

Sporkaganza I'm glasses. Since: May, 2009
I'm glasses.
#4: Dec 16th 2010 at 3:01:45 PM

^True that. I actually like the series and I think it's a great show.

I wasn't really depressed or scared or mindfucked much when watching it though. That said, there are definitely some parts that are pretty horrible in-universe. Poor Asuka...

Always, somewhere, someone is fighting for you. As long as you remember them, you are not alone.
ShayGuy Since: Jan, 2001
#5: Dec 16th 2010 at 3:55:53 PM

The current story arc runs through episode 13 or 14. The tone change starts around 15.

shark33 Since: Nov, 2010
#6: Dec 16th 2010 at 6:38:00 PM

Like everyone has said, you haven't seen the part where everything turn serious. The first episodes are intentionally funny, but don't get fool by that, that is just the calm before the storm. The second half of episode 14 is where everything starts to change, so just reevaluate the series after watching episode 19.

snowbull IJBM Refugee from outer layers of The City Since: Jul, 2010
IJBM Refugee
#7: Dec 16th 2010 at 7:14:38 PM

Eva's mindscrewyness is greatly exaggerated.

IJBM lives on here! Sign up!
Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#8: Dec 16th 2010 at 7:26:48 PM

I went WTF less form the mindscrew and more from disappointment.

Fight smart, not fair.
Sackett Since: Jan, 2001
#9: Dec 16th 2010 at 10:03:19 PM

"It's not Mind Screwy"

"I'm at episode 10"

Me: Hahahahahahhahahhahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahhahah!

If you'd seen more mecha you might have been able to pick up earlier that something was a bit off, but since you are not a big anime fan you aren't going to see it as anything crazy until episode 17 at the earliest.

Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#10: Dec 16th 2010 at 10:37:57 PM

One of the things about Evangelion that I really liked, was that I wasn't sure if any of the characters were likely to make it after a while, and this is one of the things that Rebuild brought back and improved upon.

Fight smart, not fair.
juancarlos11 Since: Aug, 2011
#11: Dec 16th 2010 at 10:47:31 PM

@sackett

Honestly i sort of expected this. but still wanted to hear if i was right or wrong about the series consistency. Still i can apreciate some of the new ideas it brings to it's genre and it's medium (i know how pretentious it sounds, but i'm sticking by it)

now i'm on ep 12 (watching it online sucks and no netflix and a sucky blockbuster with no Series DV Ds for rent makes jack a dull boy) and so far it's been so okay it's avergae sometimes going into so cool it's awesome (The Animation has been great, although the direction it's REALLY abusing leave the camera running especially that scene in ep 3 where shinji was aboout to leave but decided to stay. i felt like it was half a freaking hour and didn't add anything to both the scene nor the episode)

anyway i'm liking the idea of a weak (at least in battle terms) protagonist, sure i don't really like him but it's something that isn't used that much in fiction (everybody wants escapism) now one of the most glaring problems i have found in the series it's that i don't care about their victories. while have cheered during some of the battles i've never felt giddy or happy with any of the victories shown so far and that's (at least personally) one of the many ways to properly measure a show how much it makes you feel. and all i've felt it's indifference. this mostly extends to the characters. Asuka it's especially pissing me off (although the reason it's not the writing, that will come later) and Rei it's really bugging me. maybe because it (the show) studies all of the characters and yet it barely touches her (she's just there being morbid and creepifying to quote a certain captain) and Those Two Guys Toji and Kensukehave been sort of interesting as i wlways liked the idea of that trope and to apply it to such an (to me) Uncharted territory makes it all the easier for me to swallow that even n the bleakness of it all there's still goofiness.

Ps: Asuka it's been bothering the hell from me becaus she reminds me precisely of this one girl in high school. She even came from Germany was constantly insulting and berating and didn't respect me nor my friends

PS 2: one of those bastard for friends i had spoiled to me that one of the angels will be a fraking human. Hilarity Ensued when i screamed to him (completely forgetting he already knew): "Harry it's an Horcrux" and Twist-off (How would YOU call it?) started.

edited 16th Dec '10 10:49:42 PM by juancarlos11

It's not exactly naive. And it can happen. But it's tough. And definetly worthwhile.
Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#12: Dec 16th 2010 at 10:59:40 PM

You know how the fights are awesome? That's where the budget goes, the other scenes tend to get used for Padding. For a compact version, watch Rebuild.

Fight smart, not fair.
shark33 Since: Nov, 2010
#13: Dec 16th 2010 at 11:01:28 PM

FU, i didn't knew Harry was an horcrux. Well that's what i get for wanting to see the film prior to read the book.

edited 16th Dec '10 11:02:17 PM by shark33

juancarlos11 Since: Aug, 2011
#14: Dec 16th 2010 at 11:14:04 PM

[up] ouch, really sorry about that

[up][up] weirdly enough i've been thinking of doing it instead of the series. but i want to compare the two better. and i've been told that knowing some of the reality subtext of both really helps in the enjoyment and understanding them

edited 16th Dec '10 11:23:17 PM by juancarlos11

It's not exactly naive. And it can happen. But it's tough. And definetly worthwhile.
Sackett Since: Jan, 2001
#15: Dec 17th 2010 at 6:43:06 AM

Rebuild 1 does flow better (especially the angst for Shinji) than the first 6 episodes while covering the same story. Although little details are left out, so in some ways I prefer the original.

Rebuild 2 is completely different and you won't understand unless you've seen the original series and End of Evangelion.

Sorry if I came off as mocking. I didn't mean it that way. It's just that it's always fun to see the threads posted by people new to EVA. They post early reviews which range from "pretty good" to "boring", which tends to also have "Seinfeld" Is Unfunny issues. Then they get the the second half and it becomes "Holy Crap!". And then the final two episodes and/or End of Evangelion: "................. What just happened?"

As for your assessment of the characters. Shinji is This Loser Is You mixed with The Woobie. Asuka at this point is supposed to be the girl you hate because she's such a jerk, yet also find attractive and Hot-Blooded, (typical Fiery Redhead). Rei is supposed to be a creepy Emotionless Girl (which means it's working for you) with some aspects of The Woobie developing as you go along, When She Smiles is supposed to keep her interestinf despite being creepy.

So basically your interpretation is spot on. You are being set up well for the exciting ride to come.

What are you thoughts on Misato and Kaji so far? Or Gendo for that matter? They are important characters as well, or at least I thought so when I watched it.

As for the battles and cheering victory, don't worry. That's not what this anime is about.

edited 17th Dec '10 6:47:24 AM by Sackett

juancarlos11 Since: Aug, 2011
#16: Dec 17th 2010 at 11:23:11 AM

[up] yeah it's not big deal actually. i mean i understand how one feels when someone comes just watching a show you've already experienced. i remember watching Firefly with a couple of friends and I managed to convince them that Mal dies at the end of Out of Gas (not that it's a really hard task) they actually end punching me booth at the end of the episode. i was laughing my ass off so hard that I didn't feel the punch

now as for Misato and kaji, i like them they're the ones who are bringing the laughs and entertainment. and comic relief it''s always good especially when it also develops the characers (at least it's doing it with Misato, with Ep 12 stating why she's with nerv) i like that her strory isn't the usual You Killed My Father, but she still has the shades from it. Kaji has been a one-note character (Handsome Lech) and it's really bothering me.

as for gendo, i'm just expecting so far the oonly tthing i've seen him do is arrange for the Jet Alone nuclear failure to grab... adam? i think it was called adam. i don't know what it was but it was pretty clever

It's not exactly naive. And it can happen. But it's tough. And definetly worthwhile.
shark33 Since: Nov, 2010
#17: Dec 17th 2010 at 12:41:15 PM

[up][up][up]Don't worry man, i think i had already block that spoiler in my head, so its not that big of a deal.

I just have a question, are watching the Japanese version or the Latin American dub? I'm from Latin America too, I think the dub is great, and not only turns the funny moments to 11 it also intensifies the important moments of the series. Needless to say that I think it is a Superlative Dub.

melloncollie Since: Feb, 2012
#18: Dec 17th 2010 at 1:13:26 PM

Kaji has been a one-note character (Handsome Lech)

That will change, don't worry.

juancarlos11 Since: Aug, 2011
#19: Dec 17th 2010 at 3:52:16 PM

[up][up] i'm watching the japanese one. i thought about getting a dub. but i always was more on the subbing side of thing. and honestly the LA Dubs can be a powerful source of narm when you recognize one of the voices from whatever sitcom you watch in your childhood or any movie.

edited 17th Dec '10 4:16:25 PM by juancarlos11

It's not exactly naive. And it can happen. But it's tough. And definetly worthwhile.
Sackett Since: Jan, 2001
#20: Dec 17th 2010 at 8:17:32 PM

I find I prefer the Japanese dub, but the English one is pretty good, so if you prefer dubs I think it's be fine. (Asuka in the English dub actually speaks pretty decent German).

Kaji won't be a one note character for long. Rather a certain episode will make you realize that he never was one in the first place.

Although his backstory is really only told in the manga, so you'll miss out on his horrifying angst filled background.

edited 17th Dec '10 8:18:36 PM by Sackett

juancarlos11 Since: Aug, 2011
#22: Dec 18th 2010 at 4:38:52 PM

just watched ep 13: it was alright it had some faults at the beginning mostly from all the fat talking exposition at the beginning but i was able to catch up rather quickly. liked the idea of Day in the Limelight for Ritsuko. she seemed to be just an annoying Infodump Reverse Theppolarity character. so yeah it's pretty obvious i didn't really like her at first. what i'm really liking it's that the backstories are brought up cleverly instead of the usual TODAY, IN A FLASHBACK EPISODE. it's brought in a sort of naturalistic manner, it doesn''t bring everything from ritsuko backstory but just makes references nd gives tidbits of information.

now the ep did something i found daring and it's getting rid of the kids and centering in the NERV staff. now this was a sort of double edged sword as the show is mostly centered around shinji relationship. it is through him that we see the first battle with an angel and see the cockpit for the first time. it is through him that we see how Rei lives. it is through that we see Gendo and notice the obviously estranged relationship between them. but the NERV staff is still a place that worked for years(?) without Shinji and they all have to have some sort of realationship between one another. i liked how everyone was trying to solve the problem quickly and their rallying motivation was so Commander Ikari didn't notice anything was wrong (which leads to a understated Crowning Moment Of Funny when he's already preapared and knowledgeable of the situation AND establishes fairly well that you can't keep him out of the loop...) i liked how Ritsuko and Misato teased each other and joked at the end. overall the episode builds greatly on how nerv works in a crisis.

the only sad thing though it's that at some points he battle seemed like Hacker Duel with everyone screaming like someone finding their mothers being raped by bears or something. it diminished the suspense by a whole lot and increased the Narm.

so far the only problem that i find with the series is that there's not enough Gendo. c'mon i want him to be more than just a guy sitting and looking badass. and although his magnificent Gambit to get Adam was well... Magnificent he hasn't done anything yet.

PS: i was watching the first ep, mainly becaus i didn't pay much attention to it and i have to ask... Are the Evas Sentient? at least Eva 01 seems to be he seemed to be the one driving Shinji in the battle against the angel... PS 2: if you're gonna answer that, please don't go deeper just say yes or no and don't go deeper

Edit: huh, ep 14 starts with a recap of ep 1...

edited 18th Dec '10 5:05:45 PM by juancarlos11

It's not exactly naive. And it can happen. But it's tough. And definetly worthwhile.
Spirit Pretty flower from America Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
Pretty flower
#23: Dec 18th 2010 at 6:28:48 PM

^ It's...complicated, but yes. The Evas are sentient.

#IceBearForPresident
juancarlos11 Since: Aug, 2011
#24: Dec 18th 2010 at 7:58:28 PM

yeah, that eye thingie watching shinji at the end of his fiirst battle was pretty much obvious anyway.

just saw ep 15 and man... was it weird? it started wit the moost cryptic conversation ever and it brought one moment that made me really sad. but let's get into the analysis, shall we?

so Shinji has his first date with his father (That Came Out Wrong) in a long time and he obviously feel nervous, after all Gendo is not by any means the kind of father that shares anything with his son. so he asks Rei to help him (due too an early scene in which Gendo and Rei seemed to be engaging in a happy conversation and Shinji feeling left out) Rei answer that she doesn't know what he means and Shinji (for some weird reason) notes that Rei seems like a mother and then Rei blushes and repeats the above befuddlement. i think and it's just a theory that Rei has something to do with the Ikari family (Shinji's sister?)

so in the next day, Gendo and Ikari are in the graveyard and we see the name and i finally noticed that shinji's mother was not metioned in a whooping 15 episode count and i remember what i said about evangelion Naturalistic approach.

anyway just when Gendo it's about to leave in his pimp-mobile Shinji notices that it's driven by one of Gendo's bitches... ok ok i kid it's driven by Rei and Shinji has to call him. wish he could call him out... but he's Shinji so i wasn't surprised when he said that he was glad that they could meet.

Misato and Ritsuko have a wedding to attend to and they meet with Kaji. I know how i already mentioned to be a one note character and the first scene in the ep and the last curiously enough show that he isn't just that. he was also a spy for the japan government which finally answered a question i didn't ask (and felt embarrassed by that) does the government eve care about NERV, they seem to operate on their own and one of the main sources of the destruction on the battles. and while they always talked about paying the damages it still was damages they still would have to answer to them in other ways (justification, prevention etc) and well it didn't answer it fully but at least it shows that they don't trust NERV completely.

Misato, Ritsuko and Kaji end up talking about old times and Misato gets drunk. and Kaji decides to help her get home. and it is in here we finally see all Misato's Issues spilled in one big speech while i liked the scene i hope it's a thing that doesn't repeat itself to often. because...Honestly? i've seen really bad writin in my life suffering from That Makes Me Feel Angry but nowhere near as bad as this, but i'm letting it pass because it's still both a powerful moment and an endearing.

OTOH Shinji and Asuka are bored to death in the apartment one obviously depressed about his whole lot of father issues, while Asuka is bored because she can't be with Kaji. so she proposes to Shinji to Kiss mostly for shits and giggles (seriously how old are these kids. 6? i wish that when i was teenager and bored a hot girl came to me with the same proposition...) and then they kiss. and a long time passes obviously Asuka enjoys it but she won't admit so she starts inslting Shinji. and then just in time arrives our dear Kaji... with Misato's scent over him making Asuka a really sad girl.

and the last scene brings up today's ep Reveal: the fact that NERV holds the first Angel called Adam (really, Adam?, was he even a Angel?) now then it only makes me ask one question. in the episode with the jet alone and the nuclear faliure... what was i calling Adam? seriously it either grew while i wasn't watching or the other thing was just another thing entirely...

It's not exactly naive. And it can happen. But it's tough. And definetly worthwhile.
MoeDantes cuter, cuddlier Edmond from the Land of Classics Since: Nov, 2010
cuter, cuddlier Edmond
#25: Dec 18th 2010 at 10:41:03 PM

DBZ is one of the most famous shows of all time around here and Saint Seiya is beloved.

Latin America has good tastes in anime, if I may say so...

Now, the thing about Evangelion is that you have to watch it in a straight run. Take breaks only to eat, sleep, and do chores/homework.

The thing is, its like a rollercoaster—you don't ask the rollercoaster to stop in the middle of the right, you've got to see it through to the end. You won't get the proper experience if you give yourself time to dissect it (to be honest I find this true for a lot of anime, and a lot of good shows period), the assault has to come all at once.

But it is a moving show, seen the right way.

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