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Averting "Man Is Not A Virgin"...Good Idea/Bad Idea?

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LoniJay from Australia Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
#26: Dec 25th 2010 at 2:13:41 AM

[up][up] Not necessarily. Doesn't 'asexual' just mean you aren't sexually attracted to anybody?

You could still have a sex drive, but not directed at people. And you could like looking at pretty girls or whatever but not have a sex drive.

Be not afraid...
drunkscriblerian Street Writing Man from Castle Geekhaven Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: In season
Street Writing Man
#27: Dec 25th 2010 at 2:49:40 AM

Morgan's issues regarding sex aren't the result of any preference-related problem...they are due to the fact that physical intimacy requires trust, and he just plain doesn't trust people.

In his life, he's seen too much of the bad side of sexuality to view it as anything other than one person trying to "get something" out of another; he's at the core of it an idealist, and the world he lives in is full of cynicism. Let's face it...to be intimate with someone requires you to be naked and vulnerable. He's too closed-off to consider it, at least as I view him.

But once I commit to writing this story, the character does not belong completely to me; he'll belong at least in part to everyone who reads the story, and a lot of people will have a hard time wrapping their heads around the idea of a masculine lead who hasn't found the time to boff a girl when he's approaching 40. So, I'll leave it vague.

Those who cannot stand the idea of a hero who hasn't gotten his dick wet can imagine Morgan banging a few girls during his young and wild days as a mercenary; after all, he's surrounded by hookers and has a fistful of cash burning a hole in his pocket. Human nature is a powerful force, and its easy to imagine even the most sensitive male suffering a moment of weakness and "just wanting to get it out of the way". Lord knows I probably would have done so in his shoes.

But for the rest of us, the possibility will exist that he didn't.

I find the idea of a masculine-yet-virginal hero compelling, and after reading this thread I'm sure I'm not the only one. Physical love requires a hefty dose of trust...some can ignore that prerequisite for the space of time it takes to achieve orgasm, but not everyone is that way. And I like the idea of a hero who isn't.

I'm sure I'm not the only one, and I plan on giving those like me fuel for their imaginations. So, option 3 for me. Vagueness is king. Let the readers argue about the details.

If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~
PsychoFreaX Card-Carrying Villain >:D from Transcended Humanity Since: Jan, 2010
#28: Dec 25th 2010 at 3:26:24 AM

Word of advice, You want to write a story that "you" like. Not what other people like. If it gets popular, then cool. But the important thing is that "you" like it. That's how all the better stories are written.

If you prefer the idea of Morgan being a virgin, have him be so(a lot of tropers here including myself seem think it's a better idea anyway). If it turns down some people then Morgan just isn't their kind of character.

I mean, you do have "other" Badass male characters who lost their virginity, for other audiences to connect to, don't you?

edited 25th Dec '10 3:35:39 AM by PsychoFreaX

Help?.. please...
drunkscriblerian Street Writing Man from Castle Geekhaven Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: In season
Street Writing Man
#29: Dec 25th 2010 at 11:39:04 PM

[up]I actually agree. I just feel that this detail is better left vague, for the following reasons.

  • Its a trope not often averted. Masculine heroes are always played as straight and sexually experienced; Indy nails a babe in each film, James Bond is so obvious he almost doesn't deserve a mention...hell, even John Mc Laine (of Die Hard fame) doesn't get any cookie on-camera but he does have a wife and two kids. Certainly he's had sex at least twice and its implied that while him and his wife aren't exactly perfect together, lack of chemistry ain't an issue. As the trope description goes, a male hero must be sexually experienced or he can't solve our problems, whether or not said problem has anything at all to with sexual prowess. Which is just dumb, but equally a part of our collective thinking. If I come out and say that my character's a virgin, that's akin to trying to make a point about something, which is a tactic I'd rather avoid.

  • When it is averted, it's the main focal point. Think about it; in any story involving a virginal male past the age of about 20, his virginity is either the raison d'ete or at least a major subplot. In my story its a footnote at best; Morgan's possible virginity comes up once, and briefly (right before he loses it), and he never comes right out and says he is one because...well, let's face it; what guy's going to own up to that in his position? Yes, Morgan's an usual example of maleness from his time and place but he's still a guy.

  • Male virginity is played for laughs or used to hammer a moral lesson. Either the poor guy can't get any (and his attempts backfire with comedic fury) or he's a sensitive male who "wants to save it until marriage because that's the 'right' thing to do". Morgan is neither; he's just a man for whom sex isn't that crucial, and has never been a particularly wise idea in the bargain. His lack of experience is due to a series of circumstances, not any overriding moral code or mystical reason. Again, it isn't particularly important to plot progression, and with that in mind I feel safe just hinting at it rather than coming out and saying it.

As I said before, If I get this story published my characters no longer belong totally to me. They belong in part to anyone who picks up the book and forms a mental image of them. I need to leave room for individuals to form their own ideas, and some people simply cannot wrap their heads around a cynical, hard-bitten killer-for-hire who's never known a woman. There are plenty of places in his back story where he certainly could have gotten laid...but he also could have said no. Each reader will be invited to place their own spin on things, which is as it should be in my opinion.

And finally....I believe that to truly avert the A Man Is Not A Virgin trope it should just plain be no big deal, either to the character or the story. "Look at how I'm upsetting storytelling convention!" doesn't really count, as it still employs the same conventions and prejudice, albeit in a reversed fashion.

In my mind, Morgan's a virgin until Autumn takes care of that for him. But that's just me, and another reader will have room to take a different tack.

As an aside, I refuse to take a stance on the morality of virginity vs. promiscuity in my writing, other than to say the following; have sex when you're good and ready to.

I think Morgan's status pretty much says exactly that.

If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~
SandJosieph Since: Dec, 2009
#31: Dec 27th 2010 at 6:23:34 PM

What I would like to see is a male character who isn't fazed about admitting that he is a virgin when the subject is brought. His reasoning? "I've got aliens trying to kill me! Why should I be worried about having sex? In fact, when could I possibly be having sex?"

QQQQQ from Canada Since: Jul, 2011
#32: Dec 27th 2010 at 7:25:15 PM

Make his virginity no big deal. So what if he's too busy for hanky-panky, he's got loads of better things to do on his spare time. cool

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