TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The Nonexistent Youth Bill: The Deathknell to All Lolicon

Go To

elemcee Since: Dec, 2009
Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#52: Dec 13th 2010 at 4:56:19 PM

I think its like the difference between R Rating and NC-17, but I could be wrong.

Also there are other things. Like the most important thing, Mecha.

Mecha is often aimed at 'younger' generations.

No violence? No Mecha.

KSPAM PARTY PARTY PARTY I WANNA HAVE A PARTY from PARTY ROCK Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
PARTY PARTY PARTY I WANNA HAVE A PARTY
#53: Dec 13th 2010 at 4:57:52 PM

\*imagines Mahou Sensei Negima being re-classed as 18+*

What

I've got new mythological machinery, and very handsome supernatural scenery. Goodfae: a mafia web serial
Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#54: Dec 13th 2010 at 4:59:01 PM

Ok so I read parts of the bill.

It pretty much says ANY violence is not allowed anymore...

Even Disney allows SOME sort of violence.

This is like, anything not barney is banned.

Signed Always Right Since: Dec, 2009
Always Right
#55: Dec 13th 2010 at 5:00:06 PM

This is nothing— it's just an anonymous essay or letter by some guy in Germany. Until I see a study that says "Child pornography not linked to child abuse", I am still going to say that it is child abuse.

But heres the problem...YOU (and those on your side) are making the claim that lolicon causes child abuse to begin with...

Therefore it is YOU who need to convince us that it does cause child abuse.

Everything I've seen thus far points to the contrary...even when I actively try to find proof that such materials do cause harm to children, I end up finding out that it's the other way around instead.

Granted the best we could possibly have is correlational data...but it's better than no data, especially when it's impossible to ethically experiment with this "issue".


Nothing is being banned, just restricted.

This means less people will get to see the stuff. Less business. Less profit.

This will screw the industry even worse. Less profit will mean companies will have a much harder time staying afloat. Less profit means the companies will be even more afraid to experiment or make more new shows.

Restricting sales hurts...especially if the reasons are so needlessly stupid like this bill's intentions.

edited 13th Dec '10 5:03:22 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."
Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#56: Dec 13th 2010 at 5:03:37 PM

I never understood this logic.

Some sickos liked loli and took it out.

Not everyone who likes lolicon takes it out or do this shit.

Some bastards who shot up a school played video games.

Not everyone who plays video games shoots up a school.

It blows my mind people can somehow make it to "New Scary Media causes X because one person did it means everyone who does New Scary Media will do X"

WORLDTree Since: Dec, 1969
#57: Dec 13th 2010 at 5:03:56 PM

Porn is rated 18+ and can only be found in specialty stores, Porn is a large thriving industry, and in Japan those stores are actually in easy to find, famous, marked areas, if violence is restricted then they will buy the violence restricted just like how alcohol and cigarettes still get to teens not of age, the bill won't do much.

[up][up]Restricting sales, this is restricting content, it's not even good restriction, you can just ask someone older to buy it for you or your parents, kids still get Call of Duty regardless of the M rating, and once again you can't buy Porn in most stores but porn still sells.

edited 13th Dec '10 5:05:59 PM by WORLDTree

Tzetze DUMB from a converted church in Venice, Italy Since: Jan, 2001
DUMB
#58: Dec 13th 2010 at 5:05:08 PM

Ok so I read parts of the bill.

It pretty much says ANY violence is not allowed anymore...

Even Disney allows SOME sort of violence.

This is like, anything not barney is banned.

That would seem to go under the category of things that go into laws that don't literally take effect.

[1] This facsimile operated in part by synAC.
Signed Always Right Since: Dec, 2009
Always Right
#59: Dec 13th 2010 at 5:07:20 PM

The bill isn't restricting the sales of porn, it's restricting the sales of things that aren't porn.

Bill 156 would require the industry to also regulate "manga, anime, and other images (except for real-life photography)" that "unjustifiably glorify or exaggerate" certain sexual or pseudo sexual acts


Restricting sales, this is restricting content, it's not even good restriction, you can just ask someone older to buy it for you or your parents, kids still get Call of Duty regardless of the M rating, and once again you can't buy Porn in most stores but porn still sells.

Restricting contents will dampen the works. Make them worse then. It limits the artist's creativity, their freedom. It will force them to come up with even more compromises. Anime is already censored enough for TV broadcast. Only the uncut DVD's are uncensored.

Also, getting someone to buy them for you is still going to hurt sales in the long run. Not everyone will agree to help you buy them. Not everyone will be bothered to ask others to help them buy something that shouldn't be restricted. Those are all lost sales that slowly adds up.

The only alternative left for many would be to pirate them...

edited 13th Dec '10 5:13:36 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."
WORLDTree Since: Dec, 1969
#60: Dec 13th 2010 at 5:07:51 PM

It's also illegal to make clothing out of the American flag, doesn't mean cops will arrest you for an American flag poncho, piracy is illegal but you don't see all the pirates wiping their hard-drives and no cop will chase down and arrest a kid cause he bought an 18+ volume of manga.

Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#61: Dec 13th 2010 at 5:09:02 PM

[up][up][up][up]

This is not M rating, this is AO rating, which most distributors refuse to stock.

[up][up][up]

The law is so damn vague it may count as that.

edited 13th Dec '10 5:09:38 PM by Thorn14

WORLDTree Since: Dec, 1969
#62: Dec 13th 2010 at 5:12:12 PM

And? You don't see porn in most stores and porn still sells.

In the Meiji Restoration the government made it illegal to depict penetration in pornography, you'd think that stop it but it didn't, they found loopholes or made ones like bukkake, this will have as much effect as DRM or Prohibition.

Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#63: Dec 13th 2010 at 5:13:28 PM

Do you find Porn VIDEO GAMES on shelves?

This is completely different. This is an entire entertainment medium we are talking about.

Sporkaganza I'm glasses. Since: May, 2009
I'm glasses.
#64: Dec 13th 2010 at 5:13:31 PM

We'll see what happens here. Something tells me the entertainment industry is too strong in Japan for this to actually pass. At least, I hope so. If not, it'll become a second Australia - a wasteland for anyone who likes anime or video games. And given that anime and a vast chunk of video games are made in Japan, if that happens they'll be even more economically screwed than they already are. A statewide recession on top of a worldwide recession on top of another statewide recession. Worst-case scenario, Japan is plunged into a depression, and we all go down with it. (That's the absolute worst-case scenario, of course; I don't expect it to actually happen. Hell, I don't even expect it'll become a second Australia.)

Also, AOD, could you grow up already?

edited 13th Dec '10 5:14:24 PM by Sporkaganza

Always, somewhere, someone is fighting for you. As long as you remember them, you are not alone.
WORLDTree Since: Dec, 1969
#65: Dec 13th 2010 at 5:17:11 PM

Fun fact, you can find Porn video games on the shelves in Japan, in the specialty store, in the adult section, this is the same thing because they feel like anime and manga are becoming like porn, while this may or may not be true, like porn restricting won't have much effect, it almost never does.

And why does it matter if they don't buy from a store? Most companies have an option to buy straight from their website or you can buy it off Amazon or some other specialty provider, and there are lots of them.

edited 13th Dec '10 5:17:48 PM by WORLDTree

Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#66: Dec 13th 2010 at 5:17:26 PM

I can see 3 scenarios happening outside of this bill being reversed

1 and most realistic) This is a bill to spook publishers from publishing 'questionable' content, and will not be enforced that much, if at all.

2) Publishers rebel and move out of Tokyo, causing a significant hit to anime and manga (tokyo is the economic center afterall)

3) All out panic mode ban. Anime and Manga and Video Games in Japan are reduced to 18 only small term establishments that barely get any business, and we sure as hell aint seeing any of it.

[up] Having major retailers not carry your item is a BIG BIG BIG loss of revenue. Its why Rockstar scrambled so quickly to remove Hot Coffee, it turned the game AO and many retailers removed it.

edited 13th Dec '10 5:18:54 PM by Thorn14

Signed Always Right Since: Dec, 2009
Always Right
#67: Dec 13th 2010 at 5:19:03 PM

no cop will chase down and arrest a kid cause he bought an 18+ volume of manga.

You don't get it do you? Why do you think many vendors are reluctant to openly sell AO games on shelves in video game stores? They don't care about some kids buying AO games, but they DO care about the threat this could potentially cause them.

Angry parents, Moral Guardians, etc. Once they catch you selling them to kids, you're screwed.

Same goes for anything +18. The vendors probably don't give a crap about the kids accessing this stuff...but they do care about the kid's parents or anyone finding out reporting them.

Hence they will subdue the sales. Hurting PROFIT.


And why does it matter if they don't buy from a store? Most companies have an option to buy straight from their website or you can buy it off Amazon or some other specialty provider, and there are lots of them.

Profits are still lost. This just means they won't be getting the profits they would normally get from the ones who buy from the stores.

edited 13th Dec '10 5:22:42 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."
WORLDTree Since: Dec, 1969
#68: Dec 13th 2010 at 5:20:29 PM

False Dichotomy with three choices when all three choices are doom and gloom, there's no reason any of those conclusions will come about beyond being paranoid, banning alcohol did nothing, banning drugs did nothing, banning piracy did nothing, and restricting anime and manga won't do anything either.

EDIT[up] Yeah because that's what happened to Gamestop when they sold M rated games? And every company ever? That's basically playing chair-economics, we have no idea what will or will not happen because we're a bunch of anons sitting around on a forum, most parents are too lazy to get all their angry friends together and will probably just punish the kid or smack themselves for buying the game behind the red-curtain.

edited 13th Dec '10 5:26:50 PM by WORLDTree

Sporkaganza I'm glasses. Since: May, 2009
I'm glasses.
#69: Dec 13th 2010 at 5:21:55 PM

^Er... the first one is doom and gloom? It's practically what you just said.

Always, somewhere, someone is fighting for you. As long as you remember them, you are not alone.
Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#70: Dec 13th 2010 at 5:23:18 PM

[up][up]

Um only the last one was "Doom and Gloom"

Scenario 2 was more of just a "Ouch that sucked"

Jordan Azor Ahai from Westeros Since: Jan, 2001
Azor Ahai
#71: Dec 13th 2010 at 5:25:56 PM

Well, if lolicon isn't allowed nor is the subject of wanting to have sex with your sister....

...Maybe we'll get some better new anime next year.

My only real problem is how the "no bad themes" part of the bill is interpreted, since I don't like political censorship.

Hodor
Signed Always Right Since: Dec, 2009
Always Right
#72: Dec 13th 2010 at 5:27:12 PM

Hmmm....#1 sounds very much like what happened during the eroge incident...

That said, I haven't heard of anything from the incident since...

How's the industry doing with those restrictions in place? Did they just scoff and went back to work like normal pretending it doesn't exist? Or did those feminists really win?

With this bill, we might end up with a lot of shit anime...

edited 13th Dec '10 5:28:13 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."
Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#73: Dec 13th 2010 at 5:27:24 PM

[up][up] I dont like those, but I dont like idiots who have no idea what is going on censoring it.

And this is swatting a fly with a missile.

You kill the fly and also the entire house.

This is not an 'anti lolicon' bill. Its an 'anti otaku culture' bill.

INUH Since: Jul, 2009
#74: Dec 13th 2010 at 5:27:25 PM

and restricting anime and manga won't do anything either
Except for lowering the sales of some media that are going through hard times as it is.

Infinite Tree: an experimental story
Sporkaganza I'm glasses. Since: May, 2009
I'm glasses.
#75: Dec 13th 2010 at 5:30:50 PM

With this bill, we might end up with a lot less stupid, otaku-pandering, cookie-cutter, slightly creepy anime...

Fixed that for you son. smile

(I disagree with the bill on principle, but frankly, less creepy sexualization of high-school-aged and younger characters doesn't exactly drive me to despair...)

Always, somewhere, someone is fighting for you. As long as you remember them, you are not alone.

Total posts: 957
Top