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dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#326: Jul 6th 2011 at 3:29:16 PM

If you can call tactics and subtle manipulation "hyper aggressive" than sure, why not.

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#327: Jul 6th 2011 at 4:13:26 PM

She may have been captured but she wasn't waiting for Sam to rescue her (she really didn't know what was happening with him during that period). She was just in a restrictive situation and biding her time, asking all the right questions ended up giving her knowledge that became vital in the actual climax (Megatron's pride and the importance of the central pillar). Her escape also wasn't so much based on Sam becoming the shining knight but her taking off like a rocket and jumping onto the scout craft when the opportunity arose.

Having her turn into Xena and beat up the guards would have been a bit much, and even still besides being the Love Interest she certainly wasn't an expy of Mikaela. Mikaela was rather cynical and got worked up over the more typical romance cliches. Carly was almost always positive, smiling and affectionate towards Sam, even after their fight over Sam's obsession with the Government Conspiracy stuff. As well, it is very unlikely Mikaela could have been put into Carly's position believably (executive assistant to a Fiction 500 CEO), having a new character there made it work.

TheGunheart Some nights I rule the world (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Some nights I rule the world
#328: Jul 6th 2011 at 9:10:39 PM

The be honest, the human soldiers being effective is one of the reasons I'm not fond of the movies. I paid to see robots fight, not another humans shooting aliens flick.

Durazno Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#329: Jul 6th 2011 at 9:15:59 PM

But the humans have to be effective, or there's no reason for the Decepticons to disguise themselves in the first place.

TheGunheart Some nights I rule the world (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Some nights I rule the world
#330: Jul 6th 2011 at 9:17:32 PM

That wouldn't be the first leap of logic in the series. If I wanted to see humans shooting aliens, I'd go watch another movie. As it stands, there is still no live action movie with giant robots fighting giant robots.

KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#331: Jul 6th 2011 at 10:12:57 PM

I see no point in principle of making a live action movie where all characters of importance are special effects. The whole point of going live action is to see these characters interacting with real people, truthfully the human characters ground the film. If we didn't have a certain sense of wonder we would quickly start to question how sturdy a saturday morning cartoon is for such a movie.

TheGunheart Some nights I rule the world (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Some nights I rule the world
#332: Jul 6th 2011 at 10:58:58 PM

That doesn't really sell me on the idea, to be honest. In fact, I rather just have a fully animated movie, if the only thing having it in live-action adds is the U.S. military being all god tier against cartoon characters.

Dream_Huntress Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#333: Jul 7th 2011 at 12:19:44 AM

I see no point in principle of making a live action movie where all characters of importance are special effects.
So, again, how do animated movies work then? How did Gollum work then? Heck, how the hell did Avatar work then? Honestly the show and its spin offs worked because the Autobots and the Decepticons were actually characters, they had personalities and motivations, I could get where you're going with the whole "we need human characters to ground the story" except for two things, a) You don't, and b) The human characters in these movies have zero personality, they're walking cliches.

Honestly, almost every review I have heard, watched or read share the same opinion: Why aren't the Transformers the main characters in "Transformers", and no, 'budget issues' is not a real reason unless somebody from the production team actually confirms it.

edited 7th Jul '11 12:20:41 AM by Dream_Huntress

I can't have you close, so I become a ghost and I watch you, I watch you.
Kerrah Since: Jan, 2001
#334: Jul 7th 2011 at 12:47:47 AM

I don't see why we needed a "live-action" Transformers in the first place. Just make an animated movie.

Oh wait, Animation Age Ghetto. Everyone would think it's a... kids' movie! /gasp

Because somehow animated robots and Shia LeBouf are more "mature" than just animated robots.

edited 7th Jul '11 12:48:27 AM by Kerrah

dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#335: Jul 7th 2011 at 1:30:00 AM

I paid to see robots fight, not another humans shooting aliens flick.

Well, sucks to be you.

I don't see why we needed a "live-action" Transformers in the first place.

Because live action robots and explosions (remember, this man uses REAL explosions) are much cooler than animated ones?

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
SpaceJawa UTINNI! from Right Here Since: Jan, 2001
UTINNI!
#336: Jul 7th 2011 at 1:38:56 AM

The be honest, the human soldiers being effective is one of the reasons I'm not fond of the movies.

If you ask me, it beats another alien invasion flick where the military is either incompetent or causes more problems than it solves.

dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#337: Jul 7th 2011 at 1:51:50 AM

[up] Damn right.

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
CaissasDeathAngel House Lewis: Sanity is Relative from Dumfries, SW Scotland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
House Lewis: Sanity is Relative
#338: Jul 7th 2011 at 10:02:31 AM

The original cartoon and Avatar both had lots of human characters. They really can't be used as evidence for a no-humans-whatsoever-film. They ground the story, and give us a basis from which to relate. Audience Surrogate is a highly effective trope in such situations, and the stories are better for it.

My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.
TheGunheart Some nights I rule the world (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Some nights I rule the world
#339: Jul 7th 2011 at 10:16:50 AM

@Space Jawa: Then he should've just made a regular alien invasion movie instead of slapping the Transformers on it.

@d Roy: Given how nonexistent their screen time and characterization is the movie, being "cooler" isn't much consolation. Hell, it's still not much "cooler" given how much better the average animated Gundam looks. These look more like car wrecks that got up and walked away.

CaissasDeathAngel House Lewis: Sanity is Relative from Dumfries, SW Scotland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
House Lewis: Sanity is Relative
#340: Jul 7th 2011 at 10:49:17 AM

[up]You just took a jumbo jet away from the point. You cannot complain "they should have made another film" in this debate. The entire point that it was a Transformers film.

edited 7th Jul '11 10:49:30 AM by CaissasDeathAngel

My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.
TheGunheart Some nights I rule the world (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Some nights I rule the world
#341: Jul 7th 2011 at 11:05:29 AM

But it was just an alien invasion flick where humans got the most kills. Except for some name dropping, it didn't really feel much like Transformers, and the moments that did felt badly stapled to a completely different movie.

KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#342: Jul 7th 2011 at 11:15:49 AM

The point of special effects is to allow regular people to interact with non-human characters or environments. If you are going to have only FX characters in the film you might as well go completely animated. (That is the exact same thing I said in my previous post, only worded differently)

In fact I kind of felt that way about some films like Avatar, it was so CG heavy (including the 3D) it was visually exhausting by the end. The Star Wars prequels squeak by because (despite what people believe) there was still extensive amounts of practical costumes, make-up, animatronics, sets and modeling that were enhanced by CG and not replaced by it.

Even though I love the special effects used for the robots I would probably get burned out on them if they were the focus of the entire movie, so many shifting pieces and parts breaking off during fights that it becomes information overload. While we may pick apart problems with the story and characters, the vision and structure of the films are the best we could hope for (My dad enjoys the films but he's admitted if it was just robots he wouldn't care for them much, basically the same reasons as everyone else has said). If all we want is pure robot battles there are many other ways of getting that hook-up, Transformers Prime is doing a pretty damn good job of that.

TheGunheart Some nights I rule the world (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Some nights I rule the world
#343: Jul 7th 2011 at 11:30:17 AM

Frankly, I rather have had simpler and more distinctive designs that could be used efficiently and had actual characterization than interchangeable car wrecks that eat the budget and have less personality than the average Gundam.

edited 7th Jul '11 11:30:35 AM by TheGunheart

cutewithoutthe Góðberit Norðling Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Star-crossed
Góðberit Norðling
#344: Jul 7th 2011 at 11:50:16 AM

Well, Hollywood isn't servicing to one person's tastes, so....

They have to appeal to the mass market.

To, you know, make money.

CaissasDeathAngel House Lewis: Sanity is Relative from Dumfries, SW Scotland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
House Lewis: Sanity is Relative
#345: Jul 7th 2011 at 12:00:33 PM

[up] Which all three films have done, by the shedload. Yes, including the second one.

My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.
Acridity Since: Dec, 1969
#346: Jul 7th 2011 at 12:20:34 PM

If you can call tactics and subtle manipulation "hyper aggressive" than sure, why not.

You...might want to go back and take another shot at understanding the post, champ.

KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#347: Jul 7th 2011 at 1:34:32 PM

All of the robots don't necessarily get a personality and a lot of screen time but key robots do, like Bumblebee, Optimus Prime and Megatron through all the films. You'd probably still have a problem with characterization just due to the sheer number of characters you have to choose from, G1 literally had characters show up and leave after one episode. There is a reason Beast Wars, Transformers Animated and Transformers Prime have fairly small casts.

I felt DOTM still did a great job with trying to make the robot characters more interesting. They weren't just robots battling robots but were capable of intelligent conversations, I would have loved to see more of Mirage, Sideswipe and the Wreckers (especially Mirage, since we don't get a toy of him, that Italian accent was pretty cool too). Even if they didn't get much screen time, the fact I wanted to see more of a certain character is a good thing regardless of the movie.

edited 7th Jul '11 1:35:09 PM by KJMackley

TheGunheart Some nights I rule the world (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Some nights I rule the world
#348: Jul 7th 2011 at 3:05:24 PM

Isn't Mirage the one that casually murders a hapless driver by dropping a Decepticon corpse on 'em?

Cganale (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#349: Jul 7th 2011 at 5:52:33 PM

d Roy and Space Jawa, you two win internets.

badgertaco Hi, I'm Talos from The Imperial Throne Since: Jun, 2010
Hi, I'm Talos
#350: Jul 7th 2011 at 8:19:38 PM

Oh god, oh god, oh god, oh gaaaaaaaaaawwwd.

I just got back from seeing this in Imax 3D and my dad and I both have headaches. Ugh, the sound was so loud it hurt. Don't even get me started on the plot holes, I just.... uuuuuugh

I HATE MICHEAL BAY, I SHALL NEVER SEE ANOTHER OF HIS MOVIES AGAIN.

TALOSTALOSTALOSTALOSTALOSTALOS

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