Lord of the Rings

YES.

If we're talking feminist themes in Tolkien, surely there should be some mention that Elbereth, not Manwe the guy supposedly in charge, is the most beloved of the Valar and that her name is used to invoke the Valar's protection most often, and is said to even be deadly to the enemy.

Also of note might be Melian, who is shown to be far more powerful and wise than her husband Thingol; Luthien, who almost relegates Beren to a supporting role in their story; and all the mothers who give their children prophetic names and try to temper some of the excesses of their menfolk throughout the Silmarillion.

No Tolkien's works are not feminist, but most females in the stories are forces for good, and powerful ones at that. Ungoliant and Shelob are just about the only exceptions.

It's interesting how the few female characters are almost all these mighty forces for good. The ones that do get mentioned all do Great Things, possess Mighty Power or Have Connections with the right bloodlines. The occasional simple heroes (like the hobbits in Lord of the Rings) are all male.

None of the hobbits qualify as a "simple hero" by that definition. They all do Great Things, including Sam, and Sam is the only one who isn't Connected to some noble bloodline or other. Of course, doing Great Things tends to be what makes you a hero in the first place, and makes your bloodline special.

I was unspecific there. Sorry. Of course the Hobbits are heroes by that definition. I meant rather that they started off living 'ordinary'-ish lives, then rose to personal greatness, without inborn 'powers' aside from their natural hobbit qualities. The grand majority of female characters that actually do something are more placed on a pedestal.

Galadriel is a powerful elf-queen. Luthien was the daughter of the elven-king at the time. Eowyn is the daughter of Theoden and an accomplished fighter. Arwen is the daughter of Elrond half-elven and possesses appropriate powers. The Valier Yavanna and Varda are essentially goddesses. Lets not forget Elbereth, beloved of the elves. Melain was a Maia. Morwen was an exceptionally strong willed human of noble bloodlines. Lady Haleth was pretty much the only human woman mentioned to really fight, leading her people to find a new refuge and even refusing the Elves' offer of protection in return for fealty. Idril was a prophetess and an elf. (Those were all the females from Tolkien's legendarium I could think of off the top of my head.) Lobelia would be the exception to this list, though she is a rather mean-spirited hobbit, she did stand up to Saruman. And she was a Sackville-Baggins.

What I was saying that while we could see the four hobbits of the fellowship in their everyday lives, from there discovering their potential and becoming heroes, the women mentioned in Tolkein's world seem to be the exception to the general weal of women in Arda. Not less important then the men, but it seems to me that it was the women who stayed and preserved the culture and or the people while the males went on quests and became the celebrated heroes spoken of in songs and legends.

Edited by Aaymeirah on Mar 10th 2019 at 4:45:15 AM

Nearly every significant character in the Lord of the Rings is a member of a prominent family or bloodline, often noble. Even Gollum originally comes from river Hobbit gentry. The Hobbits as a whole can be considered a lower class than most of the rest of the world, but the actual Hobbits in the Fellowship are all from the most remarkable Hobbit families.

Except Sam.

Sam is really the only significant "common" character in the book, and as a result gets to be the comedy relief until things get really serious later on.

So if you are going to say "all the significant female characters are prominent only because they are noble or powerful first age elves or something" that isn't really saying much in a book where every significant character is noble or exceptional in their background. Except Samwise Gamgee.

Beregond maybe. Too minor a character though I guess

I would agree that Beregond is pretty close to Sam's station, but he is a member of the Citadel guard, which are something of an elite among the armed forces of Minas Tirith. He isn't an officer, though, so he may indeed be closest to Sam's class.

I thought of Fredigar "Fatty"Bolger, but it turns out he is more than half a Took.

Butterbur is the other character I thought of as being more of Sam's station, but he is a prosperous innkeeper, rather than a gardener, and the Butterburs seem to be one of the most prominent families in Bree (they have kept the inn "from time beyond record").

Fair enough.

Sam really is an outlier among Tolkien's works set in Arda. Unless I'm missing something he's the only protagonist that is not upper class/royalty or divine in some way.

Lower class antagonists are rare too, probably because Tolkien liked the "powerful figure falls from grace" trope so much. The only one I can think of is, possibly, Grima Wormtongue.

Gorbag. Shagrat. Grishnakh.

I dunno about them. Aren't they all officers?

I wonder if orcs have any kind of hereditary ruling class...

I imagine it's tribal. Strongest orcs are chiefs and their lackeys. Weaker ones are "snaga"

The more I look at it, the more Movie Thranduil looks exactly like a christmas tree

A Christmas tree ornament, or a genuine tree?

One of those aluminum ones?

His wide bottomed cape and tiny head and his head ornaments make him look like a Christmas tree

His wide bottomed cape and tiny head and his head ornaments make him look like a Christmas tree

We don't know much about Grima's background, but when we meet him he is the King's chief counselor, which is hardly a lower-class position.

Bill Ferny and Ted Sandyman during the Scouring of the Shire are good candidates for lower-class antagonists, though millers were usually better off than gardeners (Sam's occupation) in most medieval societies. They are all routed pretty easily by the Hobbits.

Comparing Hobbit characters to inanimate objects- Radagast the brown reminds me of a coat rack so buried under ratty old coats you haven't worn since the last cold spell that the rack is completely covered and it's just a messy heap of outer clothing and mothballs.

Stephen Colbert discusses the new Tolkien film:

Professor Tolken.

Well, everyone pronounces it [tolkjen] where I live so to each their own.

I've always said Tol-keen,like those actors stressed in the above interview, but some friends of mine say Tolken and one says Toe-keen. Each their own indeed.