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JapaneseTeeth Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing from Meinong's jungle Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing
#83301: Nov 13th 2015 at 10:22:04 PM

The main issue is that I'm not sure that Shovel Knight could win the ballot; I don't think his game had a Japanese release, did it?

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edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Darling.
#83302: Nov 13th 2015 at 10:37:13 PM

If they want to win a technical point, Square should put the original FF 7 up for sale on the eShop. tongue

Visit my Tumblr! I may say things. The Bureau Project
strawberryflavored Since: Sep, 2010
#83303: Nov 13th 2015 at 10:38:48 PM

Honestly, I don't think people can really speculate who "won" the ballot without knowing the results and what Sakurai and his team are thinking about.

The ballot is pretty much a list of suggestions anyway, which I feel like people tend to forget.

Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#83304: Nov 13th 2015 at 10:39:40 PM

It's more of a suggestion box anyway.

That said, Pushdustin, a member of Smashboards, with some help from others, did a lot of translations. Sakurai's 3rd party criteria was mistranslated beforehand.

You do not have to have a Nintendo appearance to get in. It'd "be a courtesy" which simply means it'd be neat, but not all that important. Likewise, it also says "must have a gaming history", and he did mention that all the base roster 3rd parties were iconic, so that's likely the context of the statement(basically they need to be iconic). Besides that, they need to originate in a video game and that they should be someone people generally want to buy. Obviously, Nintendo/Sakurai/3rd party company need to agree to put the character in, so it's a rule not even worth stating.

Shovel Knight isn't iconic, so he's less likely. Keep in mind that Sakurai has gone against his previous statements before, so the old rumor isn't dead... yet(or stays alive to the end when he's revealed as playable). It's a very strange one.

I'd like him in, but well, I doubt it at this point. As for Cloud, I will admit he was one of the FF characters I thought had an immense chance, Black Mage being the other. Despite not liking the character, I will say I'm quite pleased that such a deserving iconic rpg protagonist got in.

Shadow?
edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Darling.
#83305: Nov 13th 2015 at 10:41:10 PM

So any video game icons have a shot.

Also, I had to laugh at a You Tube comment complaining that Cloud's Final Smash was a clone of Ike's.

edited 13th Nov '15 10:44:08 PM by edvedd

Visit my Tumblr! I may say things. The Bureau Project
strawberryflavored Since: Sep, 2010
#83306: Nov 13th 2015 at 10:44:05 PM

Technically speaking yes. However, there are things to keep in mind. You can campaign for Master Chief or Sora all you want, but in the end it's in the hands of the owners of the character. And that rules out a lot of potential third party characters. Microsoft and Sony probably won't be letting any of their characters join Smash.

Cloud doesn't count because while FF 7 is known primarily for being a Playstation game, it's not a Sony owned character.

edited 13th Nov '15 10:45:28 PM by strawberryflavored

edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#83308: Nov 13th 2015 at 11:20:46 PM

Pretty much. Albeit, we can't really predict how the companies will react, or say they would refuse to negotiate. But it's fair to say something like Master Chief is less likely than Banjo & Kazooie in comparison. For various factors.

Regardless, I can't wait to see what December brings.

Shadow?
powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#83309: Nov 13th 2015 at 11:32:49 PM

Sora isn't really owned by Sony, as Kingdom Hearts has appeared on Nintendo's handhelds since Chain of Memories on GBA. I wouldn't call Sora an "icon", though. IN that field (at least for possible choices for Smash) there are only about 3 left for Icons: Scorpion, Simon Belmont/Alucard, and Snake

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#83310: Nov 13th 2015 at 11:43:03 PM

I prefer the CODEC's to the Guidance. The Guidance focuses too much on gameplay tips rather than the character, and I feel like they just aren't quite as funny. Plus a lot of it is Uprising in-jokes, and while I loved Uprising when it came out its overrepresentation here has honestly soured me toward it.

It's funnier to see Snake, an outsider from a somewhat realistic world, try to discuss these bizarre Nintendo characters.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#83311: Nov 13th 2015 at 11:58:49 PM

I too think the Codecs were funnier than the Guidances. Especially the CODEC on Falco where Slippy hacks into Snake's transmission.

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!
Slouch Hey from Here 'n' there Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#83313: Nov 14th 2015 at 12:05:17 AM

"By farting...are you kidding me?"

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#83314: Nov 14th 2015 at 12:24:51 AM

MGS's style of humor and fourth-wall breaking simply makes for better gags in my opinion.

Vertigo_High Since: May, 2010
TheHeroHartmut Too hot to hoot from Probably not right behind you (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Singularity
Too hot to hoot
#83317: Nov 14th 2015 at 1:06:47 AM

I kinda wonder what Snake and his team would have to say about the characters that have been added since Brawl, and those that returned from Melee. I could imagine Otacon geeking out over Mega Man for his design and abilities, for example, or Meiling relating to Rosalina's propensity for telling stories.

Switch FC code: SW-4420-1809-1805
powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#83318: Nov 14th 2015 at 1:09:59 AM

Imagine Snake's reaction to Pac Man and Cloud being in the game.

edited 14th Nov '15 1:10:15 AM by powerpuffbats

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!
Pulse The Fool from Yadayadaville Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Fool
#83319: Nov 14th 2015 at 1:10:41 AM

MGS's style of humor and fourth-wall breaking simply makes for better gags in my opinion.
Not just that- It helps that Snake is from a setting where most of the other fighters are weird, but not the weirdest thing he's seen lately.

I sure said that!
Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#83320: Nov 14th 2015 at 4:42:32 AM

So a 3rd-party having been on a Nintendo game isn't completely mandatory, and iconicness is a measure that's considered. Okay.

The second part makes a lot of sense, because you've got another whole company throwing their hand in the pot, and all parties involved want to be damn sure that it's worth it. Certainly better than PSASBR, where the 3rd-party representation seemed influenced more by marketing demands. That first part, however.....I mean, "must have been on a Nintendo game" makes for a good control, y'know? Keeps people from throwing every video game character under the sun. And this is a Nintendo game, after all.

edited 14th Nov '15 4:43:39 AM by Watchtower

MEKristian Since: Nov, 2009
#83321: Nov 14th 2015 at 7:20:03 AM

So what's the measure of iconicness then?

Geist-Fox loafing about from north Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
loafing about
#83322: Nov 14th 2015 at 7:32:48 AM

It's measured by how many people who have no idea who you are, are misnaming you on a regular basis.

Like "that Zelda guy"

Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#83323: Nov 14th 2015 at 7:52:45 AM

Well, let's look at what we have so-far:

Sonic: mascot for Sega, was (and, in a way, still is) Mario's rival in the gaming industry, has had varying degrees of success in multiple types of media, was #1 in the poll for Brawl 3rd-parties.

Mega Man: mascot for Capcom, spawned a large franchise with two acclaimed platformer series (Classic and X), was #2 in the poll for Brawl 3rd-parties.

Pac-Man: arguable mascot for Namco, considered one of the original arcade classics, has had varying success in multiple types of media.

Ryu: protagonist of Street Fighter, the original fighting game, basically the face of the fighting game genre as a whole, is the basis of the often-used Shotoclone, arguably Capcom's second mascot.

Cloud: protagonist of Final Fantasy VII, the biggest installment of Square's Final Fantasy franchise and considered one of the greatest games ever made, arguably the face of the JRPG genre as a whole, insanely popular among both critics and fans.

Snake is the odd-man-out, being in Brawl primarily because Sakurai and Kojima are buddies, but even then Snake boasts a high amount of popularity and is the protagonist of a critically-praised franchise notorious for being utterly batshit.

MEKristian Since: Nov, 2009
#83324: Nov 14th 2015 at 8:05:34 AM

Mega man isn't the Mascot for Capcom any more, Ryu is. Ryu himself isn't nearly as well-known as Sonic and Pac-man, and both of them have lost a lot of relevance since their hey-days.

And there are a large group of people who had no idea who Snake even was before Brawl, so again, how do you concretely measure a character as an "icon" when something like that is completely subjective?

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#83325: Nov 14th 2015 at 8:26:20 AM

He's pretty accurate. Sure those third party companies aren't the biggest names anymore, but for quite some time they used to be.


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