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kablammin45 Catch my shiny metal birb! from Misty Brook (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Catch my shiny metal birb!
#80451: Sep 25th 2015 at 1:29:10 PM

[up][up][up][up][up] The ballot ends a mere three days later, though...but I guess that doesn't mean we're getting the first announced characters immediately though.

edited 25th Sep '15 1:29:40 PM by kablammin45

"I'm glad I don't wear shoes or else I'd have to always get shoes in two different sizes. ...If you know, you know!"
WaterMasterGali92 Hello again! from Remnant Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Hello again!
#80452: Sep 25th 2015 at 1:31:48 PM

I would love Lyn! I get shivers every time she pops up from the assist.

You can't get it wrong if it's the truth!
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#80453: Sep 25th 2015 at 1:55:22 PM

So, I'm probably extremely late to this conversation, but I think a good moveset idea for K. Rool would be a mix of Bowser and Charizard for ground moves, Bowser Jr.'s special moves, and Cannonball Launcher as the Final Smash (works the same as Snake's Grenade Launcher).

The legend has returned.
kablammin45 Catch my shiny metal birb! from Misty Brook (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Catch my shiny metal birb!
#80454: Sep 25th 2015 at 2:00:12 PM

Just out of curiousity, what do you think would happen if, theoretically, an Assist Trophy character was upgraded to a playable character within the same game? Would their Assist Trophy data be removed? How would the fanbase react?

"I'm glad I don't wear shoes or else I'd have to always get shoes in two different sizes. ...If you know, you know!"
Geist-Fox loafing about from north Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
loafing about
#80455: Sep 25th 2015 at 2:03:31 PM

That sounds extremely unlikely, but if it were to happen, I don't think they'd remove the assist trophy.

It's not like it's that weird for a character to be doubled in Smash. You can have eight copies of anyone running around if you want to!

Suddenly just removing an item would probably be more work than it's worth.

IceAnt573 Forever not amused. Since: May, 2015
Forever not amused.
#80456: Sep 25th 2015 at 2:08:07 PM

I don't get why people think Hector would be that unique of a character. Ike essentially swings Ragnell like an axe. Just change the hitboxes and you have Hector.

powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#80457: Sep 25th 2015 at 2:11:24 PM

Assist trophies: They can make it a similar situation to Dedede's cameo on the N64 Dream Land stage: When he is one of the fighters on that stage, he won't be flying in the background.

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!
Geist-Fox loafing about from north Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
loafing about
#80458: Sep 25th 2015 at 2:13:42 PM

When assist trophy character joins the fight, Alfonzo takes over the assist!

Alfonzo: "Leave it to me!"

No but really, that might be brilliant. Make Alfonzo an assist trophy that replaces the assist role if the intended assist is a fighter!

edited 25th Sep '15 2:14:37 PM by Geist-Fox

Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#80459: Sep 25th 2015 at 2:27:35 PM

I think it was Leif who was the original Smash FE rep, actually.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#80460: Sep 25th 2015 at 2:28:44 PM

[up][up]Oh man, I forgot about that meme.

Folt Warlock Necromancer from Hollow Bastion! >=D Since: Jun, 2010
Warlock Necromancer
#80461: Sep 25th 2015 at 3:17:11 PM

They're still character who started out as clones. Heck, Ganondorf in particularly only made it in to Melee because he had a model for a Gamecube tech demo AND it was in-line with Falcon's moveset.

Yeah, they are. But the concepts behind them ended up helping them differ from the rest of their clones.

Luigi started as a "clone of Mario with his own spin on things" and diverged further from Mario from there, but the concept of "like Mario, but with his own spin on things" still stayed in his design.

Heck, Ganondorf ended up being one of the planned characters for the next two games because the concept of " ridiculously strong but ridiculously slow off-shoot of Falcon" actually gave him leeway for further diverging from the parent character.

And Roy likely didn't make it into Brawl because the time it would take to make him would further delay the game. Since he was being "opposite Marth", there's plenty of ways to change him in ways befitting this concept, yet still retain the concept of "opposite Marth". But ultimately, time issues forced Sakurai's hand and Roy had to be scrapped.

The difference between Luigi, Ganondorf, and Roy come down to the fact that Luigi and Ganondorf are characters from well-established A-list franchises while Roy was from a franchise that is less important in retrospect. Thus, Luigi and Ganondorf will be high-priority characters while Roy will be significantly lower on the priority list.

Lucina has a higher chance of returning if she stays a clone, but her chances are rather low either way because her concept became "beginner's Marth" and Awakening is already being repped by Robin who is a far more unique character in terms of concept (and who also contrasts with a lot of the established FE characters).

Fantastic Supreme Überkaiser Emperor Folt of The Infinity and Beyond" ... "The First"!
MEKristian Since: Nov, 2009
#80462: Sep 25th 2015 at 3:32:56 PM

And you can't imagine that they'd change that concept at all, because they just wouldn't. And that is why continuing this argument with you is pointless.

Konkfan7 Konknitive Dissonance from Roselle Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Konknitive Dissonance
#80463: Sep 25th 2015 at 3:39:09 PM

If they consider making assist trophy characters playable, I will regret not voting for Takamaru.

Folt Warlock Necromancer from Hollow Bastion! >=D Since: Jun, 2010
Warlock Necromancer
#80464: Sep 25th 2015 at 3:44:10 PM

[up][up] Yes. But it's more because why should we give Lucina a new concept and change her moveset just to keep her in the new Smash Bros. when other characters are of higher priority to keep in and we will get more newcomers to do work on?

Fantastic Supreme Überkaiser Emperor Folt of The Infinity and Beyond" ... "The First"!
Hungryguy I am a Rad Reptile. from inside a cheese wheel Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
I am a Rad Reptile.
#80465: Sep 25th 2015 at 3:59:23 PM

If that whole Assist Trophy situation happens, then I want Waluigi to be able to summon Waluigi.

Call me butter, because I am on a roll! 3ds friend code: 5258-0885-3903 Wii U: Bowser Charizard
DokemonStudios Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#80466: Sep 25th 2015 at 4:00:47 PM

Now, I'm a little late, but I think I know how to de-clone some of these characters. I know some of them are trying defend these clones and saying they are just similar in concept. You're right. But I could make some of these moves work differently, if you want to make it the case.

Toon Link's new moves:

  • B-Neutral: The Arrows would cycle between fire arrows, ice arrows, and light arrows.
  • Side-B: Pegasus Boots, which would make him run fast and zip through opponents, until you make him stop or hit a wall.
  • Up-B: His Deku Leaf would act a parachute
  • Down B: They could be the remote bombs, and they don't explode until you throw them.
  • Final Smash: A fully charged spin slash, where you can move around and jump, and after it's done, you go dizzy leaving you open. Alternatively, that could be his regular Up-B, and his final smash could be summoning a tornado with his wind waker, launching his opponents up.

Falco's new moves:

  • Side-B: He could twirl around sort of like (Brawl)Pit's Side-B and Link's Up-B
  • Up-B: Instead of a Fire Bird, make it a wind bird or a Thunderbird.
  • Final Smash: He could attack with his arwing, like with Zero Suit Samus.

Dark Pit's new moves:

  • Neutral-B: He could use his Dark Pit Staff instead of a silver bow.
  • Side-B: Instead of the Electroshock Arm, he could use the Pandora's Claws.
  • Down-B: The Guardian Orbitars would be one big shield instead of two shields on both sides
  • Final Smash: Would charge up his Dynamo Cannon to create a big charged shot. (Think of it as Samus's Charged Beam, but 4 times bigger.)

Also, while she's not a clone, I have ideas on how to improve Jigglypuff.

  • Up-B: Fairy Wind, because honestly if Jigglypuff is relevant again because of the addition of Fairy type in Gen 6, why didn't they make her more Fairy like?
  • Final Smash: Honestly, I'm not a big fan of her final smash, because it doesn't damage enemies, and her opponents could still recover. If I wanted a big Jigglypuff I'll just go to Special Smash, make a giant smash and set the items to only mega mushrooms. So maybe swap her FS with Peach's and make Jigglypuff's final smash her singing? This time it makes enemies sleep everywhere, even in the air.

edited 25th Sep '15 4:02:07 PM by DokemonStudios

MEKristian Since: Nov, 2009
#80467: Sep 25th 2015 at 4:03:50 PM

If that whole Assist Trophy situation happens, then I want Waluigi to be able to summon Waluigi.

Only if that Waluigi ends up summoning another one, ending in an endless recursion of WA.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#80468: Sep 25th 2015 at 4:13:06 PM

My changes:

Toon Link:
* Side-B is replaced with the Deku Leaf, to produce a gust of wind. Low damage, but blows foes around like the Gust Bellows.

  • Final Smash is Ballad of Gales, creating a vertical pillar of cyclone around himself. Enemies who are caught in it are tossed around taking damage before finally being launched out.

Sheik:
* Final Smash is now Goddess Harp.

Dr. Mario:
* Final Smash has the doctor pull open a bottle, spilling out three Viruses which hop around the stage dealing heavy knockback and damage to everyone they bump into, along with causing a poison effect.

Fox:
* Fox's side-B is now the grenades from Assault.

Falco:
* Final Smash is now the Arwing.

Dark Pit:
* Probably change his Side-B and Down-B to be different, but I'm too lazy to think up new moves at the moment.

  • Final Smash is still Dark Pit Staff, but the player may now aim it in a 360-degree radius before firing; as such it comes out slower than the Light Arrow, but the player can aim around the whole stage.

Ganondorf:
* Up-Smash, Forward-Smash, and Down-Tilt now make use of his sword, increasing their range a little but otherwise remaining mostly unchanged aside from animation.

  • Standard-B is now Dead Man's Volley.
  • Up-B is no longer a grab attack, though it deals light damage on the way up; once at the height of his leap Ganondorf can levitate horizontally for some time in a manner similar to Peach.

Lucina:
* I'd give her some new attacks using a lance or javelin, and a new Final Smash, but I don't know what.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#80469: Sep 25th 2015 at 4:24:09 PM

Why do we always have this debate over Lucina?

In terms of relevancy, she beats out other supposed characters who "deserve to be in the series more than her" because of how much of a breakout character she is. As much as I want K. Rool in the game, Lucina simply is more relevant than him.

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!
DokemonStudios Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#80470: Sep 25th 2015 at 5:07:55 PM

Here's the thing. She's relevant, but for now. I've always asked why Sakurai doesn't just replace Chrom with Ike, if they are too similar to each other. My best answer was that Ike has more staying power (surprisingly), even if Ike isn't the main character in Awakening and Fates. (As far as I know, I haven't played them yet.) I didn't even know that Ike was still relevant even if the focus of Fire Emblem isn't him anymore. We don't know how long any character has any staying power left even if their series didn't have a new game coming out or at least a re-release. We know that Mario, Link, Pikachu, and Kirby has staying power because they helped define Nintendo. Aside from Shin Megami Tensei X Fire Emblem, and Project X Zone we don't know if Lucina would stick around long enough to be relevant for Smash. There are some characters like King K. Rool who hasn't made an appearance in a game for several years and yet older gamers still remember him even after all this time. Even Duck Hunt hasn't had a sequel in years yet people still remember him. (for painful reasons admittedly) To be fair, Pit only had two games when Brawl came out, but at least he regained enough popularity to get a new game. (Although I don't see ROB getting a new model, yet he still returned in SSB 4)

WaterMasterGali92 Hello again! from Remnant Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Hello again!
#80471: Sep 25th 2015 at 5:30:25 PM

Lucina couldn't ever NOT be relevant. She's arguably the best thing in Awakening in terms of new characters. She has a unique personality and look all her own. If anything, she's just as good a rep as Robin.

As a clone, sure she could use some work. But look at it this way. Would we have Ganon or Falco for that matter if all people saw was their movesets and 'relevancy'? No. These characters became popular BECAUSE of their clone status.

People didn't care that Ganon had the same moves as Crapton Falcon.

I had the following conversation with my friend years ago when I found out.

"Holy shit! Ganon's in Melee!"

"Who?"

"That evil troll motherfucker from Zelda!"

"Oh shit! For real? I gotta play that shit, bruh."

"He uses Captain Falcon's moves, though."

"So?"

"I don't care, bro. He has this cool move where he punches your ass with a giant shadow thing."

"HE HAS A FALCON SHADOW PUNCH!?"

"Yep."

"WHY THE FUCK WOULD THEY HIDE THAT SHIT!?"

You can't get it wrong if it's the truth!
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#80472: Sep 25th 2015 at 5:37:55 PM

Falco got in because he'd be more unique than clone!Wolf. Ganon had the right body type, and Falcon already used a Smash-original moveset, while all Ganondorf did in his game was launching a ball and playing the organ. Falcondorf feels plausible, and by now it is a damn fine moveset that fits the character. And now we have a sword and magic character anyway, so no need to remove the best guy for homerun contests and boss events.

WaterMasterGali92 Hello again! from Remnant Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Hello again!
#80473: Sep 25th 2015 at 5:43:45 PM

My brother loves Ganondorf but he's never played a single Zelda game.

You can't get it wrong if it's the truth!
FullMoon feeling blue from Surface Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
feeling blue
#80474: Sep 25th 2015 at 5:43:48 PM

I thought Charizard was the best one for bosses (dat Rock Smash)

WaterMasterGali92 Hello again! from Remnant Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Hello again!
#80475: Sep 25th 2015 at 5:44:50 PM

[up] Rock Smash?? Are you kidding me? That's like his weakest move!

edited 25th Sep '15 5:45:06 PM by WaterMasterGali92

You can't get it wrong if it's the truth!

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