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Pulse The Fool from Yadayadaville Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Fool
#80376: Sep 24th 2015 at 10:44:55 PM

I believe the order goes something like- Japanese initial release is exclusively as a special prize for several months but eventually sees limited standard release, with no Dream Match in either instance. The Dream Match against Mike Tyson was added to the first NTSC release, with PAL getting nothing until all three regions got the version featuring Mr. Dream in Tyson's place, Tyson's contract not being renewed as a result of his losing the world championship at the time.

I sure said that!
WaterMasterGali92 Hello again! from Remnant Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Hello again!
#80377: Sep 24th 2015 at 11:02:15 PM

Lucina is fine as is! Maybe make her attacks stronger. And she isn't 'inferior' to Marth.

She's better than he is. I feel she's faster and easier to learn.

You can't get it wrong if it's the truth!
DinoTurtle TRASHY MAN from the trash Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
TRASHY MAN
#80378: Sep 25th 2015 at 1:02:15 AM

Lucina absolutely is inferior. She's easier to use, but once you learn to space Marth's attacks correctly, the only difference between them is that Marth deals more damage and knock-back.

Pulse The Fool from Yadayadaville Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Fool
#80379: Sep 25th 2015 at 1:04:29 AM

Yeah, she's got a huge issue with a lack of hitstun on top of her damage and launch power being functionally lower, and now that Roy's back in tow she doesn't even have the "better at close-range" thing going for her anymore.

I sure said that!
WaterMasterGali92 Hello again! from Remnant Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Hello again!
#80380: Sep 25th 2015 at 1:20:37 AM

I don't even care about all that. I can win with her no problem so it's not like she can't do anything useful.

Plus, she's cute and adorable and pretty and rocks Marth's old armor so much better. The butterfly mask is a big plus.

Also, Laura Bailey!

Mmm.....

You can't get it wrong if it's the truth!
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#80381: Sep 25th 2015 at 1:43:10 AM

Please don't be creepy.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
WaterMasterGali92 Hello again! from Remnant Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Hello again!
#80382: Sep 25th 2015 at 1:48:38 AM

..Ah..

My apologies. I don't mean to be creepy. I just like Lucina a lot and I get kind of excited sometimes.

I hear the voting ballot ends on October 3rd. What happens then?

You can't get it wrong if it's the truth!
Folt Warlock Necromancer from Hollow Bastion! >=D Since: Jun, 2010
Warlock Necromancer
#80383: Sep 25th 2015 at 2:23:30 AM

[up] We can see that.

Unfortunately, subjective thinking and objective fact does not line up with one another at times, and that's where you fail to see the big picture.

Lucina was conceived as "newbie's Marth", and so Marth's defining characteristic was taken away to make her easier to use. However, that simply means that Lucina ultimately becomes weaker, kills later, and has unsafe attacks. She is worse than Marth in just about every way and lacks a niché beyond "newbie's Marth".

Also, all you guys are horrible and have come up with mostly horrible concepts for K. Rool.

Fantastic Supreme Überkaiser Emperor Folt of The Infinity and Beyond" ... "The First"!
Geist-Fox loafing about from north Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
loafing about
#80384: Sep 25th 2015 at 2:30:19 AM

And I thought I was weird for half jokingly calling Lucina "mai waifu"...

Characters I jokingly nicknamed "waifu":

  • Book waifu (Fem!Robin)
  • Sord waifu (Lucina. "Sword" misspelled and pronounced intentionally)
  • Spess waifu (Samus. Both versions)

I don't really play as Samus nearly ever in Smash, but I got Zero Mission fairly recently and I was hooked on it. And she's a pretty cool gal, she shoots spess pyrates and doesn't afraid of anything.

WaterMasterGali92 Hello again! from Remnant Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Hello again!
#80385: Sep 25th 2015 at 2:33:13 AM

I've wanted to like Samus for the longest time but it just isn't happening. I've tried to play Prime and all the games everyone says is awesome but she just doesn't have that 'IT' factor for me.

Even in Smash. I try to play ZSS but she just feels unnatural to me. She's fast but not too fast, and she has cool moves but I RARELY get a kill with them. I can't seem to ever set up good combos with her despite spending hours in training mode and get my ass handed to me all the time.

What gives?

edited 25th Sep '15 2:34:53 AM by WaterMasterGali92

You can't get it wrong if it's the truth!
KSoniK Since: Jan, 2015
#80386: Sep 25th 2015 at 3:24:55 AM

Lucina was conceived as "newbie's Marth", and so Marth's defining characteristic was taken away to make her easier to use. However, that simply means that Lucina ultimately becomes weaker, kills later, and has unsafe attacks. She is worse than Marth in just about every way and lacks a niché beyond "newbie's Marth".

She is one of those characters that needs a dramatic revamp. It's hard to play differently when Lucina has no real strengths over Marth. Heck, even Marth, due to the fact his moves are always safer on shield than Lucina's, can play agressively better than her.

Fawriel Since: Jan, 2001
#80387: Sep 25th 2015 at 3:37:00 AM

$0.05: Lucina needs to be reworked but you need to consider that she'll either be a Marth clone or not in the game. The fact that she's known to impersonate Marth was a convenient excuse to make a clone character - she exists purely as a quick bonus. So giving her a lance or other gimmicks like that is right out. (I admit Roy is pretty weird in that regard, but it still makes more sense for Lucina to be a Marth clone than him.)

I think a good area to improve her in would be something like landing lag and/or aerial mobility. Make her better at keeping up offensive pressure with aerials. That's a potential subtle change that would serve to give her a more unique edge without requiring too much of a revamp.

Folt Warlock Necromancer from Hollow Bastion! >=D Since: Jun, 2010
Warlock Necromancer
#80388: Sep 25th 2015 at 4:51:43 AM

Roy was conceived with the concept of having of being "Marth with weak tipper and good at the base" or essentially Marth's opposite I believe, which is at least easy enough to make a clone character out of (simply switch the hitboxes so that tipper is low damage and the base is high damage). The kicker is that this very same concept gives more opportunities for Roy to actually diverge from his parent character while still retaining his concept.

But yes, basically. If Lucina is going to be better, she needs to be reworked because right now she's a Master of None and it shows.

Fantastic Supreme Überkaiser Emperor Folt of The Infinity and Beyond" ... "The First"!
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#80389: Sep 25th 2015 at 4:52:01 AM

She was a last minute character. Which I personally would have found better as an alternate for Marth, with her own voicelines. Dark Pit as well, and the Doctor Mario problem would have been solved had Mario gotten a good Mario Tornado (with Galaxy influence) as a down B (personally, FLUDD as a Final Smash working just like the Mario Finale would had been neat, specially now that Luigi has the Poltergust as a FS; thematicness ensues).

Seriously, the alt costumes deserved more love, and amiibo representation. Game & Watch gets different poses for his amiibo, why can't the Koopa Clown Cart have different Koopaling figures to have inside? Half of all Robin figures being female? Half of all Wario figures being on overalls? Different villagers? Alph having an amiibo?

What a shame, but hey, we are moving forward compared to Brawl only having Wario, and previous games going by palette swaps purely.

Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#80390: Sep 25th 2015 at 4:53:58 AM

Lucina shouldn't be that hard to declone. Canonically, she fights more like her father than graceful Marth. I mean, she does learn Aether naturally.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
Folt Warlock Necromancer from Hollow Bastion! >=D Since: Jun, 2010
Warlock Necromancer
#80391: Sep 25th 2015 at 4:59:19 AM

[up][up] Less workload? Game & Watch being mostly flat which would give more time for more poses? Alternate costumes not being considered important enough to be marketable as toys?

(And seriously, if we had to have models for every single alternate costume, we'd have to make a lot more shelf room and likely increase the base price.)

Fantastic Supreme Überkaiser Emperor Folt of The Infinity and Beyond" ... "The First"!
Fawriel Since: Jan, 2001
#80392: Sep 25th 2015 at 5:11:14 AM

[up][up] It's not that it would be hard to do something different with her, but the fact that they didn't have to is the very reason she's even in the game, because she took practically no time to make. And with FE already being overrepresented, I doubt we'll be seeing a drastically different Lucina in any future iterations.

TechPowah Just a simple hero from the room down the hall Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Just a simple hero
#80393: Sep 25th 2015 at 5:13:08 AM

If anything, Lucina will probably be one of the first to be axed come the next Smash Bros. game.

The New Age of Awesome is here! Not even the sky is the limit!
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#80394: Sep 25th 2015 at 5:13:37 AM

Alternate costume =/= Alternate skin.

We have Alph, Overalls Wario, Wireframe Little Mac, and gender swaps of Wii Fit Trainer and Robin. Villager and Bowser Jr. have 8 alternate costumes (Villager I do not quite get them, but Bowser Jr. makes sense).

So 5 extra models. Which aren't that much of a hassle for a decently made toy line that supplies in proper ways.

And I wouldn't declone Lucina for the next Smash. Costume or axe; Roy may be more attractive for DLC, Robin is an unique character, and Awakening would be far less relevant to have a swordfighter from that game without a playstyle of her own. That decloning effort may go to making a new character that isn't a Marth clone.

EDIT: FE being overrepresented: Marth and Ike are keepers, Roy as DLC is fine, Robin is quite unique gameplay-wise and may remain there (although different M Us could replace them, as could Anna if they want to focus on franchise-wide themes); Corrin from Fates looks quite solid, but Fates would be old news by when 5mash rolls by.

edited 25th Sep '15 5:15:43 AM by Eriorguez

Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#80395: Sep 25th 2015 at 5:15:01 AM

I mean, the deuteragonist from Fire Emblem Awakening I'd argue is more relevant than Pichu or Wolf. They might take her out for the next game, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#80396: Sep 25th 2015 at 5:16:17 AM

Wolf is a recurring character. Lucina is the tritagonist of a single game.

Folt Warlock Necromancer from Hollow Bastion! >=D Since: Jun, 2010
Warlock Necromancer
#80397: Sep 25th 2015 at 5:40:51 AM

[up][up][up] No idea what the hell you're trying to say with that. Especially when the developers would have to spend time and money on those alternate models in the first place.

Fantastic Supreme Überkaiser Emperor Folt of The Infinity and Beyond" ... "The First"!
KSoniK Since: Jan, 2015
#80398: Sep 25th 2015 at 6:07:38 AM

Lucina being either cut or kept either way wouldn't be surprising.

In other news...

edited 25th Sep '15 6:28:49 AM by KSoniK

MEKristian Since: Nov, 2009
#80399: Sep 25th 2015 at 6:32:22 AM

Lucina is an actually popular character outside the game. Why do I have to keep repeating this fact over and over in this thread?

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#80400: Sep 25th 2015 at 6:33:45 AM

A characters popularity drops once they get into Smash.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.

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