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Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#78601: Aug 23rd 2015 at 8:23:19 AM

They are not the same thing as palette swaps. And Alph got his own trophy, in the same pose as Olimar's to boot.

Folt Warlock Necromancer from Hollow Bastion! >=D Since: Jun, 2010
Warlock Necromancer
#78602: Aug 23rd 2015 at 9:13:18 AM

[up] I believe I mentioned that if you were an alt, you'd get one trophy at most. Note how Alph's trophy is the only one. Having Alph be the Alt trophy that would talk more in-detail on Olimar's specials would be pretty awkward since Alph and Olimar are different characters. Ditto why Bowser Jr's Alt trophy is of himself rather than any of the koopalings (who got one trophy each).

Alph and the Koopalings actually have it the worst of their alts: If I remember correctly, their trophies are only awailable at random after getting one of Olimar's trophies (and if not, they are still just random trophies).

edited 23rd Aug '15 9:15:57 AM by Folt

Fantastic Supreme Überkaiser Emperor Folt of The Infinity and Beyond" ... "The First"!
TechPowah Just a simple hero from the room down the hall Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Just a simple hero
#78603: Aug 23rd 2015 at 9:28:04 AM

Alph and the Koopalngs got their own trophies because they are separate characters from the "base" costume outside of Smash Bros., and had trophies to talk about their non-Smash Bros. selves. The other characters didn't get that with their alternate selves because even with the costume change, it's still literally the same character at the core <gender swaps, Wireframe Mac, Overalls Wario>.

edited 23rd Aug '15 10:16:49 AM by TechPowah

The New Age of Awesome is here! Not even the sky is the limit!
Pulse The Fool from Yadayadaville Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Fool
#78604: Aug 23rd 2015 at 9:29:20 AM

Well, sorta- Wireframe Challenger is only a version of Mac retroactively, much like Blonde Challenger from SNES Super Punch-Out!!

I sure said that!
TechPowah Just a simple hero from the room down the hall Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Just a simple hero
#78605: Aug 23rd 2015 at 9:31:58 AM

Eh, maybe if Mac had his hair changed to the Super Punch Out!!'s silly hair style, but it's only a palette swap for now. tongue

The New Age of Awesome is here! Not even the sky is the limit!
Folt Warlock Necromancer from Hollow Bastion! >=D Since: Jun, 2010
Warlock Necromancer
#78606: Aug 23rd 2015 at 9:32:46 AM

[up][up][up],[up][up] Also the male Wii Fit Trainer in a way, who somehow gets his own Palutena Codec and Boxing Ring title, as well as actually showing up in the trophy box collections.

edited 23rd Aug '15 9:33:03 AM by Folt

Fantastic Supreme Überkaiser Emperor Folt of The Infinity and Beyond" ... "The First"!
Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#78607: Aug 23rd 2015 at 9:38:58 AM

I have a weird gut feeling that Alph, the Koopalings, Female Robin, Male WFT, and maybe the Wireframe Challenger might become their own characters in Smash 5.

Out of Smash Bros, they pretty much are.

edited 23rd Aug '15 9:39:31 AM by Rinsankajugin

Pulse The Fool from Yadayadaville Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Fool
#78608: Aug 23rd 2015 at 9:41:13 AM

[up][up][up]No, I mean, outside of Smash, around when Punch-Out W!! was released, it was ultimately decided that, while before that Little Mac had only starred in the NES version of Punch-Out!!, he was the main character of the whole series retroactively and thus was also the lead of the arcade games and SNES Super Punch-Out!!, despite the radically different character designs.

edited 23rd Aug '15 9:41:43 AM by Pulse

I sure said that!
Folt Warlock Necromancer from Hollow Bastion! >=D Since: Jun, 2010
Warlock Necromancer
#78609: Aug 23rd 2015 at 9:47:38 AM

[up][up]

Wireframe Mac: No
Male WFT: No
Female Robin: No
Alph: Maybe
Koopalings: Absolutely not

Fantastic Supreme Überkaiser Emperor Folt of The Infinity and Beyond" ... "The First"!
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#78610: Aug 23rd 2015 at 10:14:46 AM

What is anyone even arguing at this point

I'm sorry for causing this. I only intended to make a joke about shipping arguments.

I have a message from another time...
TechPowah Just a simple hero from the room down the hall Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Just a simple hero
#78611: Aug 23rd 2015 at 10:15:42 AM

Wireframe Challenger: I know about the arcade and Super Punch Outs retroactively being Mac, I was just saying that it's still only a palette swap for Punch Out Wii Mac rather than a separate costume to change the hair and face. tongue

Male WFT: His trophies might simply be because of lack of any other Wii Fit trophies to add rather than anything else. His having a separate WVBA Ring title and Palutena codec is pretty interesting, though. tongue

The New Age of Awesome is here! Not even the sky is the limit!
powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#78612: Aug 23rd 2015 at 10:16:00 AM

Depends if the dev team feels like keeping the gender alts in the next game.

Though I think only Female!Robin could work as a separate character if they give her some different moves from Awakening.

[up][up] And all I did was give my headcanon keeping Male!Robin as Lucina's boyfriend and Female!Robin as her mom, with Male!Robin being born around the same time as Lucina.

Why is it that Robin's the only alt that causes controversy?

edited 23rd Aug '15 10:18:02 AM by powerpuffbats

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!
Pulse The Fool from Yadayadaville Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Fool
#78613: Aug 23rd 2015 at 10:18:56 AM

I'd vote for just keeping Robin as-is at this point, with Kamui or the avatar of the game after Fates being included as female by default with the male default design as an alt the same way Robin and Wii Fit Trainer go about it.

I sure said that!
TechPowah Just a simple hero from the room down the hall Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Just a simple hero
#78614: Aug 23rd 2015 at 10:19:17 AM

Oh, I almost forgot; The Koopalings also had individual WVBA titles and Palutena codecs, so it's not like Male WFT is sooper special in that regard. tongue

edited 23rd Aug '15 10:19:52 AM by TechPowah

The New Age of Awesome is here! Not even the sky is the limit!
Pulse The Fool from Yadayadaville Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Fool
#78615: Aug 23rd 2015 at 10:20:45 AM

The Koopalings getting different titles is something new to the NTSC and PAL versions, though- The Japanese version has Jr. and the seven Koopalings all sharing a title meant more for the Junior Clown Car than for them.

edited 23rd Aug '15 10:21:06 AM by Pulse

I sure said that!
TechPowah Just a simple hero from the room down the hall Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Just a simple hero
#78616: Aug 23rd 2015 at 10:37:37 AM

I think the main reason Robin has the biggest "which is the "primary" gender" debate is because, while in their home games Villager and WFT's genders don't have much bearing on the game itself beyond cosmetics, Robin's gender greatly changes certain aspects of how to play that gender's file in Awakening, the main difference being which characters you can Support/marry and have kids with. It also changes the gender of Robin's own child, Morgan <Male Robin=Female Morgan and vice-versa> and what skills can be inherited from Robin.

The New Age of Awesome is here! Not even the sky is the limit!
HeavyDDR Who's Vergo-san. from Central Texas Since: Jul, 2009
Who's Vergo-san.
#78617: Aug 23rd 2015 at 11:21:47 AM

I doubt any of the alts will get their own character slots in the next game. Even Alph is pushing it, but personally I don't try to push to have more clone-set characters, which Alph would inevitably be to some extent.

I do think, however, that more characters besides Little Mac should have been given extra costume options. I honestly don't know why Mac got so many, I guess Sakurai really fantasized about eight-player Wireframe smashes? Seems like it would have made more sense to either give Little Mac only four regular costumes and four wireframe costumes, or give every other alt-character eight costumes. This is especially true for Wario, the only character to actually lose skins from one game to another.

I'm pretty sure the concept of Law having limits was a translation error. -Wanderlustwarrior
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#78618: Aug 23rd 2015 at 11:45:57 AM

Maybe if more unique Pikmin show up. The Rock Pikmin are barely different from Purple Pikmin at this point, so it's not worth making him a clone. It's already hard work to make a fully new model for something that doesn't amount to much.

Likewise, the focus is on the Pikmin, not the Captains. I wish we had more alts for Olimar, honestly. I just think the ship should be reskinned appropriately for the Final Smash, which is the only issue I had with Alph.

Shadow?
EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#78619: Aug 23rd 2015 at 11:47:57 AM

It's because the wireframe Macs were very low on how much data they took up, and standard Mac has about the same amount of colors as anyone else.

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
Folt Warlock Necromancer from Hollow Bastion! >=D Since: Jun, 2010
Warlock Necromancer
#78620: Aug 23rd 2015 at 11:51:49 AM

There's also the fact that F!Robin appears together with M!Robin and has a different render on the official site when you go to their page, which, alongside how the Avatar was portrayed in Awakening, fools people into thinking that F!Robin is "special" in a way (or deludes them willfully into the same thought) when all she is is an extra treat for the people who want to play as her over the male version.

All Smash portrays Robin as is that he prefers magic over swords, is a genius tactician, and is a friend to Lucina. F!Robin receives even less outside of what we can determine from her battle quotes.

M!Robin is the face and main gender of Smash!Robin as a result of Smash Cutting Off the Branches for Robin and M!Robin for some reason getting the default spot and F!Robin gets to be an alternate costume of M!Robin which is still better than her not appearing at all. Surprise; being the default gender actually matters! That's all there is to it.

And all I did was give my headcanon keeping Male!Robin as Lucina's boyfriend and Female!Robin as her mom, with Male!Robin being born around the same time as Lucina.

I find this to be rather disgusting: M!Robin marrying his niece? Gag me!

Fire Emblem Fates would outright deconfirm it if it weren't for Awakening putting a fork into your headcanon in the first place as well.

Fantastic Supreme Überkaiser Emperor Folt of The Infinity and Beyond" ... "The First"!
HeavyDDR Who's Vergo-san. from Central Texas Since: Jul, 2009
Who's Vergo-san.
#78621: Aug 23rd 2015 at 11:53:43 AM

Not sure if this counts as a leak, or if the leak thread is still active, but rumor has it that Professor Layton will be in Smash. His voice actor was credited on imdb for the role in Smash 4, and on Twitter he essentially confirmed that he did voice some lines. But it's mostly rumor now, so...

I'm pretty sure the concept of Law having limits was a translation error. -Wanderlustwarrior
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#78622: Aug 23rd 2015 at 11:55:49 AM

Robin gets debate because they are a player avatar that does a good job of being an Audience Surrogate, making the player feel as though they themself are in the game. Guys want male Robin to be the default to feel validated as their self-representation, girls want female Robin to be the default to feel validated as their self-representation (Though there are people who want the opposite-gendered Robin to be the default, usually because they don't care about their status as a player avatar and just have a thing for them. :P).

Villager's also a player avatar, yes, but one that's REALLY shallow, totally mute and generic, and mostly just exists so the player can have something to control, so nobody really cares much about that. And NOBODY gives a shit about the Wii Fit Trainer's gender since they aren't even a player character, just a generic guide. There's no connection.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#78623: Aug 23rd 2015 at 12:01:27 PM

[up][up][up]Didn't I just say that my headcanon has Robin being born around the time Lucina is? This version doesn't even become Chrom's best friend.

It's more like an alternate universe regarding all things Nintendo. My alternate Nintendo universe thing combines all Nintendo franchises into one universe.

Just repeat the MST3K Mantra to yourself and try not to make sense of it.

And yes, I'm well aware my thought process doesn't work with Awakening, that's why it's more of an alternate universe. Anytime I've thought of this idea, I've usually had it happen with my alternate universe idea not having Awakening's events happen. Fire Emblem gets affected the most of all Nintendo franchises.

edited 23rd Aug '15 12:04:02 PM by powerpuffbats

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!
EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#78624: Aug 23rd 2015 at 12:02:09 PM

[up][up][up]that sounds AMAZING. I love the professor layton games. Layton would probably end up becoming one of my mains.

edited 23rd Aug '15 12:02:24 PM by EpicBleye

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#78625: Aug 23rd 2015 at 12:06:47 PM

"I have a solution to the puzzle. It's called 'my fist'."

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!

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