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LinkToTheFuture A real bad hombre from somewhere completely different Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
A real bad hombre
#78301: Aug 17th 2015 at 10:39:40 PM

Like I've know for a long time now that the Smash fandom had a huge Casual-Competitive Conflict conflict but holy shit this is insane.

Thst being said, i do want to try Melee, because it does look like fun, and the one time I played Brawl with my friend's GC controller was a huge amount of fun. That controller is so good.

I can't tell whether the competitive community in general likes or dislikes Smash 4. It's understandable why Brawl seems to be widely disliked: I kinda agree with them on that.

edited 17th Aug '15 10:40:03 PM by LinkToTheFuture

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." -Thomas Edison
powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#78302: Aug 17th 2015 at 10:42:15 PM

I also regard Brawl as the worst SSB game. Though I do think Wolf should return (I do want Snake but his chances are much lower than Wolf's). I was surprised that Wolf wasn't announced instead of Lucas as I thought Wolf had a better chance of getting in than Lucas

I generally prefer Smash Wii U over all the Smash games, though.

edited 17th Aug '15 10:42:39 PM by powerpuffbats

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!
LinkToTheFuture A real bad hombre from somewhere completely different Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
A real bad hombre
#78303: Aug 17th 2015 at 10:49:11 PM

i would say 64 is the worst but yeah Brawl is so slow, so floaty, wiimote is terrible for smash (good thing I have a classic controller), combos are basically impossible, and it has tripping. Seriously, screw tripping.

I only have the 3DS version of Smash 4 as of now but when I am finally reunited with my Wii U I plan on going and getting the Wii U version alongside the DLC fighters.

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." -Thomas Edison
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#78304: Aug 17th 2015 at 11:13:11 PM

Aside from tripping and the floatiness, I actually prefer Brawl to Melee. More content, no more obnoxious wavedashing and other exploits, and to be honest I prefer low comboability to high comboability.

Being subjected to an unavoidable string of attacks with no escape or input simply because you got hit by one weak initial attack and the other player memorized some button inputs is, in my opinion, bad game design. I don't care if it's a staple of fighting games.

edited 17th Aug '15 11:13:44 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
LinkToTheFuture A real bad hombre from somewhere completely different Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
A real bad hombre
#78305: Aug 17th 2015 at 11:16:53 PM

I still love Brawl, I just think Smash 4 is better. (I've never actually played Melee)

edited 17th Aug '15 11:19:47 PM by LinkToTheFuture

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." -Thomas Edison
EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#78306: Aug 17th 2015 at 11:27:11 PM

Melee is very heavy feeling. As a fighting game its better than brawl, but there is a distinct cut in the tier list between usable and unusable, along with a sharp line between casual and competitive players that's hard to cross.

Brawl is bad in the fact that the tier list is way more lopsided, tripping, elemental weaknesses, floatiness, and a low combo ability.

Smash 4 solved all of those problems, but is having some trouble breaking into the competitive scene for reasons that literally boil down to "it isn't melee."

edited 17th Aug '15 11:29:58 PM by EpicBleye

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
Karxrida from Eureka, the Forbidden Land Since: May, 2012 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#78307: Aug 17th 2015 at 11:33:10 PM

From my understanding Melee's complexity is why competitive players love it so much, which is something 4 (apparently) doesn't have as much of.

Pulse The Fool from Yadayadaville Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Fool
#78308: Aug 18th 2015 at 12:18:47 AM

Because god forbid every fighting game not feature an emphasis on combos.

So I was watching a video on Youtube about some basic advanced moves (like wavedashing and such), just out of curiosity. I then went into the comments, like I do on every video.

BAD IDEA.

I mean, on one hand, I'm really sorry you're covered head-to-toe in blistering sores, but on the other, you knew that was a vat of fire ants you were jumping into.

edited 18th Aug '15 12:22:48 AM by Pulse

I sure said that!
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#78309: Aug 18th 2015 at 4:12:29 AM

I like combos in everything, as in continuous actions that deny the opposing party a chance to counterattack (and I also like being able to break out of those and counter). Speed and skill are quite attractive to watch, in my opinion.

Brawl feels clunky as fuck, and it is not like Melee forces you to combo. Wanting to have competitive players closer to the average player by limiting what they can do, well, I do not share that mindset. And I am not a competitive player, but I do enjoy having more stuff at my disposal. Smash 4 is better than Brawl, but defensive play is both easier and more rewarding than offensive play, and that makes for a lousy show.

Also, most of the content of Brawl lacked quality. Yeah, more trophies, but most of them were ported models. Yeah, an adventure mode, but that was a lackluster Kirby game (and jumps cancelling your momentum? That is subpar platforming physics that killed franchises in the 80's and 90's). And no individual Break The Targets levels, no Board the Platforms once again, clunky Classic Mode...

Yeah, more doesn't mean better.

edited 18th Aug '15 4:14:02 AM by Eriorguez

BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#78310: Aug 18th 2015 at 4:30:14 AM

I strongly dislike Melee because every match is the fucking same.

I'm fine with Project M because it actually has more than two or three playable characters. And that's a CRITICISM Melee players have towards it. What?!

edited 18th Aug '15 4:31:33 AM by BaffleBlend

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#78312: Aug 18th 2015 at 5:08:14 AM

Ah, so Wolf got in largely because he'd be easy to animate, since they already had Fox and Falco's animations to inform his.

I have a message from another time...
Fawriel Since: Jan, 2001
#78313: Aug 18th 2015 at 5:52:25 AM

Melee is very heavy feeling. As a fighting game its better than brawl, but there is a distinct cut in the tier list between usable and unusable
I'm not sure the cut is really that distinct. Like, in recent tournaments you could actually see the occasional Toon Link, Pikachu, Ganondorf and Samus making splashes. (Not to mention friggin aMSa!) Fox is The top tier character, but he's also potentially very vulnerable, and there are in fact low tier characters who are considered good match-ups against him.

I mean, yeah, that doesn't sound like much and ultimately you still see the same set of characters dominating tournaments, but I still consider it a better situation than Brawl in that respect, because in a defensive game like that with practically no combos, you can't say that the best characters can still be juggled and edgeguarded to death by a bottom tier character.

Plus, you know, the tiers only apply to the fullest extent at the highest level of play. And in the end you have to consider what's most important to you as a player. Do you want to be one of a hundred good Fox players, or do you want to become a living legend by making waves with your surprisingly powerful Bowser?

edited 18th Aug '15 5:54:08 AM by Fawriel

Hungryguy I am a Rad Reptile. from inside a cheese wheel Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
I am a Rad Reptile.
#78314: Aug 18th 2015 at 5:56:44 AM

Bowser please.

Call me butter, because I am on a roll! 3ds friend code: 5258-0885-3903 Wii U: Bowser Charizard
KSoniK Since: Jan, 2015
#78315: Aug 18th 2015 at 6:18:12 AM

You know, after reading that article, there are a few things that are interesting to note

  • The implication about Krystal not being seen as feasible as Wolf is interesting. It seems to suggest that Krystal was at one point seriously considered if Sakurai was willing to specifically highlight why he didn't choose Krystal.
  • Interesting confirmation of how much Wolf took to make in comparison to a fully created-from-scratch character
  • This confirms that Krystal would never be similar to Fox at all, contrary to how some debated that Krystal wouldn't necessarily be unique.
  • It doesn't explain why Toon Link and Jigglypuff were lower-priority, which was something I wanted to know.

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#78316: Aug 18th 2015 at 6:51:50 AM

Because clone and quite irrelevant character that survives due to grandfather clause.

Also don't worry about Melee matches all being the same, top-level space animal players are having to retire due to hand damage.

Hungryguy I am a Rad Reptile. from inside a cheese wheel Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
I am a Rad Reptile.
#78317: Aug 18th 2015 at 8:12:32 AM

So guys, what's your favorite stage? Mine's Jungle Hijinx, because it has a cool gimmick and awesome music. Especially Mole Patrol!

Call me butter, because I am on a roll! 3ds friend code: 5258-0885-3903 Wii U: Bowser Charizard
EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#78318: Aug 18th 2015 at 8:13:32 AM

3DS Kirby stage. The one that looks like a gameboy. I always thought that the stage was so cool.

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#78319: Aug 18th 2015 at 8:35:59 AM

Gamer, Wily Castle, Battlefield, Dreamland 64, Halberd, Port Town Aero Dive, Mario Galaxy, Gaur Plains, Boxing Ring, Hyrule Castle, Suzaku Castle, Miiverse, Mario Circuit Brawl, Lylat Cruise, and Orbital Gate Assault are my personal favs. I also like Mushroom Kingdom U, Castle Siege, Kalos Pokemon League, Windy Hill, Pac Land, and Bridge of Eldin occasionally.

RE: Balancing:

Here's how bad Brawl's balancing was:

A good Ganondorf/Zelda/Link/Jigglypuff/Mario/Samus/Captain Falcon player would pretty much always lose against a good Meta Knight/Snake/Diddy Kong/Ice Climbers/Falco player.

In Smash 4, someone who was good as Mii Swordfighter would have a better chance of winning against a good Sheik/Yoshi player.

edited 18th Aug '15 8:38:14 AM by powerpuffbats

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!
BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#78320: Aug 18th 2015 at 8:40:24 AM

@the article: I admit I'm smiling at the Take That! towards Waddle Dee's supporters. I'm a horrible person.

@favorite stage: I'd say "one of my custom stages", but since that doesn't count,

Peach's Castle 64. Yeah, it looks cramped, but it's actually pretty open and feels unique without being too intrusive. There's a reason it was legal as a Counterpick in 64 for a while.

A close second is Temple, which I've always had a soft spot for. You could say it's my happy place.

edited 18th Aug '15 8:43:37 AM by BaffleBlend

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
kablammin45 Catch my shiny metal birb! from Misty Brook (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Catch my shiny metal birb!
#78321: Aug 18th 2015 at 8:41:57 AM

3DS: I find myself playing on either Rainbow Road and Find Mii a lot. I really like the Dreamland stage, too, though.

Wii U: Orbital Gate Assault

DLC: Suzaku Castle and the 64 stages. (But I guess that's all of them. tongue)

edited 18th Aug '15 8:43:26 AM by kablammin45

"I'm glad I don't wear shoes or else I'd have to always get shoes in two different sizes. ...If you know, you know!"
FullMoon feeling blue from Surface Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
feeling blue
#78322: Aug 18th 2015 at 8:42:24 AM

I'm legit surprised that Jigglypuff was almost cut from Brawl.

BurntMario Oh hai TV Tropes from Your nightmares Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Oh hai TV Tropes
#78323: Aug 18th 2015 at 8:44:11 AM

They did originally intend on replacing Ness with Lucas in Melee.

Call me Willy Whistle 'cause I can't speak, baby. Something in TV Tropes really drove me crazy.
powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#78324: Aug 18th 2015 at 8:50:52 AM

Melee also wasn't going to have Dr. Mario, Falco, Young Link, Ganondorf, Pichu, and Roy too.

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!
BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#78325: Aug 18th 2015 at 9:01:18 AM

And yet Toon Link was one of the first characters confirmed for 4. Huh.

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer

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