TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Super Smash Bros.

Go To

IceAnt573 Forever not amused. Since: May, 2015
Forever not amused.
#77551: Aug 1st 2015 at 2:42:13 AM

[up]There's Rosalina.

Fawriel Since: Jan, 2001
#77552: Aug 1st 2015 at 2:44:17 AM

I couldn't think of a succinct way to express "if there's the option to put her in a skin-tight suit the non-skin-tight version must be vastly inferior".

IceAnt573 Forever not amused. Since: May, 2015
Forever not amused.
#77553: Aug 1st 2015 at 2:52:02 AM

That can also apply to Sheik and Zelda...and Captain Falcon and Ganondorf.

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#77554: Aug 1st 2015 at 6:32:02 AM

And Sakurai was adamant on Samus being the best character in the pre-release stages?

Seriously? For fuck's sake, what the fuck is wrong with that man, can't he reconsider his opinions when feedback disagrees with him or what?

(His work ethics and attention to detail remain admirable tho).

edited 1st Aug '15 6:32:31 AM by Eriorguez

Geist-Fox loafing about from north Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
loafing about
#77555: Aug 1st 2015 at 6:47:21 AM

Geez, apparently even Samus' missiles are terrible.

Please tell me she has some amazing attacks to make up for all of that.

EDIT: Wait, has anyone examined her properties since the newest update?

edited 1st Aug '15 6:47:47 AM by Geist-Fox

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#77556: Aug 1st 2015 at 6:49:46 AM

They have.

She was one of the characters to receive no changes.

I have a message from another time...
strawberryflavored Since: Sep, 2010
#77557: Aug 1st 2015 at 6:53:06 AM

[up][up][up]I'm pretty sure that the current Samus is what resulted from that happening during the development.

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#77558: Aug 1st 2015 at 7:04:02 AM

And you know what's hilarious and sad?

Gunner Mii, despite cribbing from Samus's moveset, has almost none of these problems.

Charge Blast? Kills Mewtwo on the ledge of Lylat at at least 150%. Gunner Missile? Still low powered, but kills at like 230%. Up smash? Actually connects. Down smash? Kills at 150%. Up throw? Kills at at least 180%. Dash attack? Connects at point blank, can kill.

Basically, the only way to have a respectable Samus is to make a Mii Gunner with the Samus outfit.

And that's just depressing.

I have a message from another time...
strawberryflavored Since: Sep, 2010
#77559: Aug 1st 2015 at 7:09:15 AM

If you want it to be worse, you could say that KK Slider is better than Samus. Isabelle is better than Samus. A bear is better.

Fawriel Since: Jan, 2001
#77560: Aug 1st 2015 at 7:12:47 AM

Remember that time they nerfed her down-b bombs to not explode on impact anymore with evidently no reason besides making her unable to bomb-jump, in the game that introduced characters that can just straight-up fly?

Sakurai just really hates Samus tbh.

That she turned out good in early development is probably exactly what happened. Sakurai was all like "well she's clearly overpowered now, so let's adjust all the things". Same reason Mewtwo still comes pre-nerfed because they need to be careful not to make (one of) the most powerful Pokemon too powerful, same reason as any other weird tendencies in character balance. In the end it always boils down to these little biases that make you think "I've got to make sure that this character is good enough" or "I've got to make sure that this character is not overly powerful".

edited 1st Aug '15 7:17:36 AM by Fawriel

Customer Since: Sep, 2009
#77561: Aug 1st 2015 at 7:54:36 AM

Actually, I remember Samus getting a buff in one of the previous patches that at least allowed her Up Smash to connect better (among other slight changes).

I assume Sakurai was referring to free-for-all style matches when he originally said that Samus seemed to be the most powerful, most likely due to overestimating her Charge Shot in those types of matches (somewhat similar to what I hear about Charizard; he does better in FFAs than in 1v1s, but unlike Samus, Charizard doesn't completely whiff in the latter form of matchups). That said, I still don't have any idea why she hasn't been getting any buffs for her 1v1 matchups even if my supposition is remotely true.

...Though I'll admit that a part of me finds it endlessly amusing that not only is Samus shown up by her Power Suit-less self, but now her sole "buff" from the last update is technically becoming a Mii Fighter costume. You want strong Samus, buy the Power Armor costume and give the Mii as much of Samus's skill set it can use. tongue

edited 1st Aug '15 7:57:22 AM by Customer

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#77562: Aug 1st 2015 at 7:56:11 AM

Well, Mewtwo not being as powerful as he would logically be makes some sense. If the characters were balanced to their real power levels, Samus, Palutena, and the Pits would annihilate everyone else with ease.

I have a message from another time...
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#77563: Aug 1st 2015 at 8:02:54 AM

Or Ganondorf, by sheer virtue of no selling everything. Or Shulk and his full omnipotence at the end of his game..

Mewtwo would also have to be able to go toe to toe with Lucario and Charizard's final smashes.

But yeah, the game should be balanced also by paying attention at how a character performs one on one, not by just judging by the performance in the middle of chaos. Chaos is entertaining for an hour, tops, but loses its luster VERY fast.

Demonfly birdie fairy Since: Jul, 2012
birdie fairy
#77564: Aug 1st 2015 at 8:08:47 AM

In the end it always boils down to these little biases that make you think "I've got to make sure that this character is good enough" or "I've got to make sure that this character is not overly powerful".

And somehow having an entire outsourced fighting game team that would know far better changed nothing.

edited 1st Aug '15 8:10:19 AM by Demonfly

"Tell them to shut up and have some faith in me." - dead flashback guy
Fawriel Since: Jan, 2001
#77565: Aug 1st 2015 at 8:16:19 AM

[up] I don't know how closely involved Sakurai is with all that stuff, really. Might just be coincidence. Might be that they have trouble working with inherently flawed material in the case of her moveset. Or something else. -shrugs-

Well, Mewtwo not being as powerful as he would logically be makes some sense. If the characters were balanced to their real power levels, Samus, Palutena, and the Pits would annihilate everyone else with ease.
-head tilt-

That's obvious, of course. But what I mean is that Mewtwo is pretty lousy again, and again it seems to me like the result of the thought process I described. "Mewtwo would have to be overpowered, so let's be careful to give him some very pronounced weaknesses so we don't overdo it!" And then, of course, they overdo it with the weaknesses while not going far enough with the strengths to compensate. There's really no justification for making him as lightweight as he is, but that's where they went because they were just that worried about giving him a good offense without a major weak point.

edited 1st Aug '15 8:17:24 AM by Fawriel

HeavyDDR Who's Vergo-san. from Central Texas Since: Jul, 2009
Who's Vergo-san.
#77566: Aug 1st 2015 at 8:47:01 AM

I can see where Samus would be hard to balance, having a lot of utility and various projectiles at her disposal, but some of those things shown in the video are just ridiculous in comparison to what many other characters have at their disposal, if not broken. That dash attack really needs to get fixed if we're gonna have so many others have the same motion but better.

I guess the "balance" is that a fully charged beam is pretty deadly at even low percentages, flies far, and can come out quickly, but I don't think anyone has that hard of a time avoiding it, or interrupting it.

I'm pretty sure the concept of Law having limits was a translation error. -Wanderlustwarrior
powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#77567: Aug 1st 2015 at 8:54:47 AM

[up]You can still be very close to your opponent which makes it unavoidable. Like how I was when playing with my friends.

How would Samus feel about being nerfed? I imagine that she'd be very pissed about it.

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!
Demonfly birdie fairy Since: Jul, 2012
birdie fairy
#77568: Aug 1st 2015 at 8:58:13 AM

[up][up]Meanwhile Lucario's strutting about with an easily more potent Charge in addition to its now fully redundant damaging properties, his braindead recovery, free-kill command grab, etc.

"Tell them to shut up and have some faith in me." - dead flashback guy
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#77569: Aug 1st 2015 at 9:00:47 AM

And Mii Gunner has an equal (or better) Charge Beam and a stronger moveset on top of it.

I have a message from another time...
MightyMatilda Mr. Clueless from New Jersey, USA Since: Jan, 2015
Mr. Clueless
#77570: Aug 1st 2015 at 9:07:51 AM

@Fawriel: There's really no justification for making him as lightweight as he is

I think it makes sense to make Mewtwo a Glass Cannon, both because it's Psychic and because Mewtwo's defensive stats are its worst. Super Smash Bros. doesn't have life meters, so making it lightweight was the only way to go.

De Romanīs, lingua Latina gloriosa non fuī.
Demonfly birdie fairy Since: Jul, 2012
birdie fairy
#77571: Aug 1st 2015 at 9:22:16 AM

and because Mewtwo's defensive stats are its worst

*koff*

Even taking ratios into account it's not even a whole point away from the supposed middleweight, and its overall health still towers over nearly everything else in this series.

edited 1st Aug '15 9:30:41 AM by Demonfly

"Tell them to shut up and have some faith in me." - dead flashback guy
Karxrida from Eureka, the Forbidden Land Since: May, 2012 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#77572: Aug 1st 2015 at 9:29:47 AM

Mewtwo's defenses are only bad compared to other Legendaries, and even then it's still Lightning Bruiser. 106/90/90 is pretty solid.

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#77573: Aug 1st 2015 at 9:48:40 AM

He said that Mewtwo's defensive stats are its worst, not the worst. And it's true. Mewtwo's best stats are speed and Special Attack.

I have a message from another time...
MightyMatilda Mr. Clueless from New Jersey, USA Since: Jan, 2015
Mr. Clueless
#77574: Aug 1st 2015 at 9:53:11 AM

I considered writing that Mewtwo's defensive stats are its "least overpowered", but then I decided not to.

De Romanīs, lingua Latina gloriosa non fuī.
Demonfly birdie fairy Since: Jul, 2012
birdie fairy
#77575: Aug 1st 2015 at 9:58:38 AM

[up][up]And compare that to the heavyweight who's Sp. Defense is just barely higher than his weaker attack stat (in a series where most fighters are physical), and the middleweight (well, both middleweights; forgot to throw the frog into the pile) with all three defensive stats being statistical outliers.

Sakurai clearly didn't put any thought into this from a semantics standpoint, and there's no point in pretending that he did.

edited 1st Aug '15 10:02:09 AM by Demonfly

"Tell them to shut up and have some faith in me." - dead flashback guy

Total posts: 148,710
Top