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BurntMario Oh hai TV Tropes from Your nightmares Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Oh hai TV Tropes
#77326: Jul 28th 2015 at 12:28:54 AM

I take it Mario is more of a Lightning Bruiser?

Where does Villager fall into? A part of me wants to say Stone Wall because of that insane recovery of his.

Call me Willy Whistle 'cause I can't speak, baby. Something in TV Tropes really drove me crazy.
FullMoon feeling blue from Surface Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
feeling blue
#77327: Jul 28th 2015 at 12:37:15 AM

Mario is trying to be a Lightning Bruiser but isn't quite there. His weight is average and his recovery is poor, plus his range is lacking and his ground mobility isn't anything too impressive.

He also lacks good kill confirms so he's only getting to end stocks with a read. Compare to someone like Greninja or Meta Knight that have dozens of different ways to turn a weak hit into a kill.

Villager is odd. He's a mid-range zoner. He keeps people out with slingshots but if the opponent is far enough he can't do much other than throw rockets that aren't going to hit unless the opponet lets it, close range he has options but he's a lot more limited. Villager's recovery is ridiculous on paper but during all of it he's vulnerable to attack, so characters like Falcon, Ganon and Zelda can spike him with no consequence. You can also pop the balloons and make his life harder. Hydro Pump also severely screws with his recovery but that's Greninja and Greninja just doesn't care about recovery moves in general.

IIRC the top 5 recoveries in the game are Pikachu, Sheik, Villager, Greninja and ZSS, in that order.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#77328: Jul 28th 2015 at 12:39:41 AM

I'd have thought ROB's recovery would be up there.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
BurntMario Oh hai TV Tropes from Your nightmares Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
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#77329: Jul 28th 2015 at 12:42:03 AM

I don't know, Wario has a really good recovery, too. Wario Bike is great for both horizontal and vertical recovery, and it's mainly because of the really high jump he makes when he jumps out of the bike. You can still use his midair jump if you haven't already, and his up special move, while not having the best range around, is still useful for vertical recovery.

Call me Willy Whistle 'cause I can't speak, baby. Something in TV Tropes really drove me crazy.
Alucart23 Since: Jun, 2015
#77330: Jul 28th 2015 at 12:44:55 AM

well, just to be clear, despite technically being one of, if not the lightest of characters, im very good at staying alive with mewtwo, and i dont know if that's uncommon or not, but he's definitely one of my best characters, along with captain falcon and mega man, but those two have custom moves.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#77331: Jul 28th 2015 at 12:46:59 AM

[up][up]Wario's up-special is also pretty good as an attack.

Not as bonkers as Roy's or ZSS's, but decent for racking up damage.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Demonfly birdie fairy Since: Jul, 2012
birdie fairy
#77332: Jul 28th 2015 at 12:53:50 AM

if not the lightest of characters

Jigglypuff

rather pathetic that I have to use that as a point of comparison, but there you go

"Tell them to shut up and have some faith in me." - dead flashback guy
FullMoon feeling blue from Surface Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
feeling blue
#77333: Jul 28th 2015 at 12:54:21 AM

The things to consider when judging a recovery is not only distance but also safety, speed, hitboxes, invulnerabilty, etc. ROB recovery leaves him open and he has a time limit that other characters can abuse. Not only that but his recovery travels slowly giving other characters plenty of time to intercept him. The main thing that makes his recovery good is that he can attack while using it.

Wario's recovery is top 15 though.

A breakdown on why the top 5 is the top 5:

Pikachu is pretty invulnerable for most of Quick Attack, can aim it at any direction he wants, moves really far and really fast. Unless you're Greninja you're just not stopping him from coming back.

Sheik teleports, is invicible for some of the time before she vanishes, trying to attack her out of it might get you killed thanks to the explosion and her recovery goes pretty far. Not only that but she has Bouncing Fish for horizontal recovery.

Villager has two means of recovery, the balloons having ridiculous vertical range and he moves reasonably fast in the air. He can also stall with rockets offstage and use them to cover him while recovering.

Greninja has Shadow Sneak which is a teleport move, plus if you try to go offstage after him, you can get hit and killed by the attack part of it. Shadow Sneak goes a really far distance and also stalls his fall while he's charging it. Hydro Pump can be aimed at any direction, making it hard to intercept if the player mixes up his path, is very fast and goes really far.

ZSS has 3 different recoveries. Is invicible during the start of Flip Jump, can control how far it goes, can attack and kill with it and covers a fair distance. Her tether also reaches really far and gets her to the ledge very fast. Boost Kick as a recovery kinda sucks though.

Pulse The Fool from Yadayadaville Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Fool
#77334: Jul 28th 2015 at 12:54:42 AM

I think R.O.B. doesn't quite manage the top 5 because his recovery covers lots of distance but isn't all that safe- It's a bit slow and keeps R.O.B.'s profile fully upright.

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Alucart23 Since: Jun, 2015
#77335: Jul 28th 2015 at 12:58:40 AM

and pk thunder is only a recovery if you know that hitting yourself was the purpose, otherwise, you're screwed. and even if you do know, you might not be quick enough to pull it off. combine your vulnerability and you get an extremely complicated recovery move.

Slouch Hey from Here 'n' there Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
Hey
#77336: Jul 28th 2015 at 3:26:02 AM

King Dedede's has to be in the Top 10 at least. Right? Top 15?

edited 28th Jul '15 3:26:26 AM by Slouch

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#77337: Jul 28th 2015 at 3:53:45 AM

[up][up]PK Thunder is only a recovery move because you actually can recover using it.

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Pulse The Fool from Yadayadaville Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Fool
#77338: Jul 28th 2015 at 3:54:18 AM

[up][up]I mean, it's up there for the raw distances he can cover, but he's got similar issues to R.O.B.- Lack of safety due to slow recovery speed, even if the total distance is high.

edited 28th Jul '15 3:54:43 AM by Pulse

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Slouch Hey from Here 'n' there Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
Hey
#77339: Jul 28th 2015 at 3:59:49 AM

His Up B does have a lot of armour while it rises though, it's pretty safe most of the time.

TheHeroHartmut Too hot to hoot from Probably not right behind you (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Singularity
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#77340: Jul 28th 2015 at 4:14:42 AM

He's wide open upon landing, though.

edited 28th Jul '15 4:14:48 AM by TheHeroHartmut

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Numbuh1234 Since: Apr, 2014
#77341: Jul 28th 2015 at 4:56:25 AM

So if Mario's just short of being a lightning Bruiser, and Villager's a mid-range zoner, then what is Mr. Game & Watch at higher levels?

MightyMatilda Mr. Clueless from New Jersey, USA Since: Jan, 2015
Mr. Clueless
#77342: Jul 28th 2015 at 7:27:02 AM

Mario not being the Jack of All Stats in a video game feels like something has gone horribly, horribly wrong. Like with Mario Golf.

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HeavyDDR Who's Vergo-san. from Central Texas Since: Jul, 2009
Who's Vergo-san.
#77343: Jul 28th 2015 at 7:38:51 AM

Dedede's recovery is optimal when you're right below the edge. The change in when and where armor is applied makes it a lot harder to get back on the stage sometimes, but the buff to now catch the edge makes it faster and more reliable. As far as sheer distance goes, it's one of the best, sure, but only vertically. I will admit, though, I rarely have ever found myself in a spot where, unless double jumpless or getting interrupted, I wasn't able to return to the stage with it.

I'd really argue that Villager has one of the best recoveries. Unless you snipe the balloons off of him, he can basically always recover, since it's very likely the attack will knock him back into a position to use it again. Add with that his side special to control his momentum, or offer a faster horizontal recovery, it's really, really hard to finish the guy without an outright kill.

I'm a little surprised to see Pikachu up there. I really want to get a statistic on how many Pikachu deaths stem from a messed up recovery.

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blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#77344: Jul 28th 2015 at 7:46:16 AM

It's so fast I'm surprised anyone has time to mess it up. Pikachu is artillery.

I had a friend who depended a little too much on Kirby's rock drop. Pikachu is much faster and can attack with a devastating hit against those who are above him.

edited 28th Jul '15 7:47:05 AM by blkwhtrbbt

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FullMoon feeling blue from Surface Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
feeling blue
#77345: Jul 28th 2015 at 9:14:08 AM

I think he meant the users messing it up.

Dedede's recovery is really good though, the super-armor and vertical distance is really good. Being able to use a Gordo to cover you while you try to recover is nice too, though that can backfire.

strawberryflavored Since: Sep, 2010
#77346: Jul 28th 2015 at 9:17:00 AM

I don't think I've ever figured out how to use D3's recovery with that tiny bit of horizontal movement.

Folt Warlock Necromancer from Hollow Bastion! >=D Since: Jun, 2010
Warlock Necromancer
#77347: Jul 28th 2015 at 9:53:51 AM

Surprised to see Luigi remain that high up, though; I had thought most of his perks would have gotten plenty of answers by now.

Luigi as a character has visible strengths and flaws in his design. By all accounts, the sum of the whole shouldn't have been greater than it's parts in this case, yet he still keeps a high position. I'm goona chalk it up to unfamiliarity and that, while Luigi kind of struggles to gain the advantage due to poor mobility and traction issues, people find him hard to deal with when he does gain the advantage because Luigi's offensive game as a whole is one of the best in the game. People who are good with Luigi can work wonders when they get the advantage, and... well... playing Luigi means you just have to accept that he's going to struggle to get in so it's all about spotting and taking the opportunities offered to you (or the ones you open up yourself).

Luigi in Super Smash Bros. is a character of extremes, which is kind of an anomaly for middleweights.

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Pulse The Fool from Yadayadaville Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Fool
#77348: Jul 28th 2015 at 10:01:42 AM

Mario not being the Jack of All Stats in a video game feels like something has gone horribly, horribly wrong. Like with Mario Golf.
He is one and he isn't one in Smash- His strengths and weaknesses, while pronounced in effect, are subtle in feel, much like how Ryu in his home series is a smidge too punchy and defensive to be called a Jack in his home series.

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BurntMario Oh hai TV Tropes from Your nightmares Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
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#77349: Jul 28th 2015 at 10:17:57 AM

@77341: Game & Watch is more of a Glass Cannon—he has poor defenses and decent speed, but he makes up for those with some powerful attacks, such as Judge 9 and Oil Panic.

Call me Willy Whistle 'cause I can't speak, baby. Something in TV Tropes really drove me crazy.
powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#77350: Jul 28th 2015 at 11:32:32 AM

[up][up][up] Yet whenever one of my friends plays as Luigi, it's mostly spamming his dash attack.

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!

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