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HeavyDDR Who's Vergo-san. from Central Texas Since: Jul, 2009
Who's Vergo-san.
#76226: Jun 21st 2015 at 9:53:51 AM

She wasn't a clone at all. Mario and Luigi could be argued to be clones, since they had the same special moveset with minor differences, plus many standard attack similarities, but not Kirby and Jigglypuff. They're entirely different characters.

I think Lucina's addition was hasty and while not contributing much, she contributes something. I think people forget that, funny enough, there are people out there who don't really care about the numbers of the game, and are happy to have a similar-but-different character added to the roster. She's a female character, which is definitely nice, and she has her own animations for many of her attacks, as well as a separate voice, and a mechanic more welcoming to newbies. Saying "Lucina doesn't add anything, and doesn't warrant being her own character" is a very small-scoped view of seeing things.

On one hand, I definitely think Lucina could have been a more divergent character from Marth. Maybe keep the same standard attacks, but Awakening had a lot to draw from to give Lucina interesting abilities - not that Sakurai has obviously ever played a Fire Emblem game. On the other hand, her inclusion was last minute, and I see why she wasn't made more different, and yet not simply an alt option for Marth. Marth and Lucina were probably found to be too similar looking if they were just alternate costumes of the same build, since they would also share the same movements and animations. Making them a separate character gave Lucina the chance to have notably different animations, plus a unique set of recolors for herself, without confusing players into thinking Boy Marth and Girl Marth are different or the same.

I think Fire Emblem has a lot of reps, but it also has a big history. I don't think it's hogging the spotlight or anything like that.

I'm pretty sure the concept of Law having limits was a translation error. -Wanderlustwarrior
FullMoon feeling blue from Surface Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
feeling blue
#76227: Jun 21st 2015 at 10:36:50 AM

Jigglypuff was a semi-clone in a different way. She had entirely different specials, but she shared most of her normals with Kirby.

edited 21st Jun '15 10:37:02 AM by FullMoon

Folt Warlock Necromancer from Hollow Bastion! >=D Since: Jun, 2010
Warlock Necromancer
#76228: Jun 21st 2015 at 10:49:59 AM

[up][up] Lucina shares just about all of her animations with Marth. It's not that she is similiar yet different from Marth; she is Marth, but with an equal-power blade.

As for Jigglypuff, she shared many A-moves with Kirby in the 64 version which was enough to label her a semi-clone. She and Kirby were changed further to the point where she lost her semi-clone status in Melee and onwards.

Fantastic Supreme Überkaiser Emperor Folt of The Infinity and Beyond" ... "The First"!
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#76229: Jun 21st 2015 at 12:21:20 PM

Since clones are always a topic here seemingly, I'd like to talk about something different. Like Smash Run.

The legend has returned.
kablammin45 Catch my shiny metal birb! from Misty Brook (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Catch my shiny metal birb!
#76230: Jun 21st 2015 at 12:28:38 PM

I have a love/hate relationship with that mode. Sometimes it's fun, other times I have to restrain myself from tossing my 2DS across the room, and that's usually when the game decides to only throw out Demonic Spiders like the Plasma Wisp, Mimicuties, and Devil Cars and the like out.

I've discovered that Ryu is pretty good for that mode considering how hard he hits. Even when I set him to primarily speed, he was still K Oing weak enemies in one hit.

"I'm glad I don't wear shoes or else I'd have to always get shoes in two different sizes. ...If you know, you know!"
Pulse The Fool from Yadayadaville Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Fool
#76231: Jun 21st 2015 at 12:42:52 PM

ash Run is pretty good, but it would benefit from an event switch or a way to control the final match pool. More enemy variety and an alternate map or two would also be nice.

I sure said that!
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#76232: Jun 21st 2015 at 12:44:03 PM

I miss Adventure mode; SSE and Smash Run are not quite the same...

MightyMatilda Mr. Clueless from New Jersey, USA Since: Jan, 2015
Mr. Clueless
#76233: Jun 21st 2015 at 12:50:32 PM

I prefer SSE due to it not feeling like Classic Mode with a few platforming stages thrown in.

De Romanīs, lingua Latina gloriosa non fuī.
Folt Warlock Necromancer from Hollow Bastion! >=D Since: Jun, 2010
Warlock Necromancer
#76234: Jun 21st 2015 at 1:05:30 PM

Smash Run is good. Better than the Wii U exclusive mode at any rate.

Fantastic Supreme Überkaiser Emperor Folt of The Infinity and Beyond" ... "The First"!
powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#76235: Jun 21st 2015 at 1:14:09 PM

I'd prefer a cross between Adventure Mode and SSE.

Basically Adventure Mode with more platforming. And a lot shorter than SSE.

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#76236: Jun 21st 2015 at 1:19:44 PM

Adventure Mode and SSE felt near identical to me beyond the forced character switching. They're also pretty similar to Classic Mode outside of the mini-games anyway. All 3 modes are filled with bosses, tons of platforming, normal character battles, an implied or directly shown story, and a good showing of various Nintendo franchises in some way.

Smash Run is the only one that feels completely different to me. While it has more Nintendo enemies than the SSE, it's just a very short little mode that lets you find some random stuff, and either kick enemy ass or get thrown around by them. I never played an inbetween game where it was neck and neck VS the various enemies.

Shadow?
BlitzTrain Since: Apr, 2014
#76237: Jun 21st 2015 at 2:08:23 PM

I like Smash Run, recently gained a new appreciation for it's 5-minute length while playing it on break at my new job. Just right to get something "done" before getting back to the drudgery of real life.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#76238: Jun 21st 2015 at 2:33:06 PM

I'd like something more like SSE, though the cutscenes and plot are optional. Just a bunch of random levels with various enemies and bosses, maybe arranged in a manner similar to how Event Match is this time, with certain conditions unlocking secret levels.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Pulse The Fool from Yadayadaville Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Fool
#76239: Jun 21st 2015 at 2:46:44 PM

Or heck, a Survival Mode for Smash Run, where the idea is to chart as much of the map as possible and/or keep a (set of) stock(s) as long as you can, with enemies getting stronger as you progress and proper bosses appearing at certain thresholds. It'd probably demand at least one new map from the one we have now, though.

I sure said that!
Folt Warlock Necromancer from Hollow Bastion! >=D Since: Jun, 2010
Warlock Necromancer
#76240: Jun 21st 2015 at 3:01:40 PM

You know, I actually kind of thought up a way Events could work in the next installment:

Event Mode now consists of a world map with 6 worlds, having 10 Events each (except the 6th world). Every world (except the 6th) has a Boss Event at the halfway point (miniboss), and a Boss Event at the endpoint. For these Boss Events, you get to pick a character (all other Events limits you to one or three characters in terms of choice).

The miniboss will be a character altered in some way (Metal Mario, Giant Donkey Kong, etc.) or a team (either consisting of two characters or a horde of similiar characters). The boss is basically the usual All-Star Battle against a group of characters. World 5 switches this, while World 6 is basically all Boss Battles.

Beyond the usual Event completion, you also get optional goals, similiar to the Wii U Events. Upon completion, you get a reward, and also a piece of a picture, whose completion unlocks a bonus event. All Events that belong in the same world unlock pieces belonging to the same picture. Completing these bonus events also unlock pieces, these pieces belonging to the picture of the 6th world which, so completing all prior events is necessary to get the final bonus event. The bonus events are also about as difficult as the Events of the 6th world.

Some Events I've thought up:

World 1

Event 1: Trouble Kings: Pick between Mario, Link, or Kirby, and go toe-to-toe with Bowser, Ganondorf, and King Dedede. Characters not chosen will be allies, and enemy AI will be set at the lowest difficulty rate, and picking a higher difficulty won't change too much. Stage is Battlefield.
World 1 Miniboss: Mario Bros. Battle: Pick a fighter, and go head-to-head alongside a randomly chosen ally against Mario and Luigi. Enemy AI is set at a low difficulty rate. Stage is a fixed Super Mario Bros. series stage.
World 1 Boss: All-Star Battle: Classic: Pick a fighter, and defeat the eight fighters who have been smashing from the very beginning: Mario, Donkey Kong, Link, Samus, Yoshi, Kirby, Fox, and Pikachu in that order. Enemy AI is set at a low difficulty rate (around medium on if you pick the highest difficulty). Stage is Battlefield.
Bonus Event 1: Trouble Heroes: Pick between Bowser, Ganondorf, and King Dedede and go toe-to-toe with Mario, Link, or Kirby. Characters not chosen will be allies, and enemy AI will be set at a high difficulty rate. Stage is Battlefield.

World 2

World 2 Miniboss: Giant Donkey Kong Battle: Pick a fighter and go head-to-head alongside two randomly chosen allies against Donkey Kong. Doneky Kong is under the giant condition, and enemy AI is set at a somewhat low difficulty rate (medium if put at the highest difficulty).
World 2 Boss: All-Star Battle: Melee: Pick a fighter and defeat nine fighters who debuted in Super Smash Bros. Melee: Bowser, Peach, Zelda, Sheik, Ice Climbers, Marth, Mr. Game & Watch, Falco, and Ganondorf in that order. The enemy AI is set at a somewhat low difficulty rate (medum-high if put at the highest difficulty). Stage will an Omega version of a returning Melee stage.

World 3

World 3 Miniboss: Kirby Copy Team Battle: Pick a fighter and defeat a 12-strong army of Kirbys. Each Kirby except the last one has a copy ability belonging to one of the original Smash Bros. fighters in order: Mario, Donkey Kong, Link, Yoshi, Fox, Pikachu, Luigi, Jigglypuff, Captain Falcon, and Ness. Enemy AI is set to medium.\\ Changing difficulty affects how far the opponents are knocked away by attacks. Stage will be Dreamland (64).
World 3 Boss: All-Star Battle: Brawl: Pick a fighter and defeat ten fighters who debuted in Super Smash Bros. Brawl: Meta Knight, Pit, Zero Suit Samus, Wario, Charizard, Diddy Kong, Ike, King Dedede, Olimar, and Lucario in that order. The enemy AI is set at a somewhat low difficulty rate (medum-high if put at the highest difficulty). Stage will be an Omega version of a returning Brawl stage.

World 4

World 4 Miniboss: Metal Mario Battle: Pick a fighter and go head-to-head with Mario. Mario is under the metal condition, and the stage is an Omega version of a returning 64 stage (or Meta Crystal).
World 4 Boss: All-Star Battle: 3DS/Wii U: Pick a fighter and battle against ten fighters who debuted in Super Smash Bros. for 3DS and Wii U: Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, Rosalina & Luma, Little Mac Greninja, Palutena, Robin, Shulk, Mega Man, and Pac-Man in that order. The enemy AI is set at a somewhat low difficulty rate (medum-high if put at the highest difficulty). Stage will be the Omega version of a returning 3DS/Wii U stage.
World 4 Bonus Event: Ganondorf's Machinations: As R.O.B., defeat these characters: Bowser (False Bowser palette), Peach (black palette), Zelda (black palette), Samus (Dark Samus palette), Giant Diddy Kong (purple palette) Mr Game & Watch, Wario, Bowser, and Ganondorf. The enemy AI is set at a medium-high difficulty rate (high put at the highest difficulty). Stage is someplace with lots of machinery.

World 5

World 5 Miniboss: New Challengers: Pick a fighter and defeat the newcomers to this installment. The enemy AI is set at a medium difficulty rate (high if put at the highest difficulty).
World 5 Boss: Fighting Mii Team Battle: Pick a fighter and defeat a 30-strong army of Miis. The last ten are able to use throws and special moves. The enemy AI is set at a medium-high difficulty rate. Changing difficulty affects how far the opponents are knocked away by attacks. The stage is Battlefield.
World 5 Bonus Event: All-Star Battle: The Legends: Pick a fighter and defeat the twelve fighters who have been smashing from the very beginning: Ness, Captain Falcon, Jigglypuff, Luigi, Pikachu, Fox, Kirby, Yoshi, Samus, Link, Donkey Kong, and Mario in that order. The enemy AI is set at a high difficulty rate (very high if put at the highest difficulty). The stage is Final Destination.

World 6

World 6 Boss 1: Giant Donkey Kong Returns: Pick a fighter and go head-to-head with Giant Donkey Kong, with no teammates to help you this time. The enemy AI is set at a high difficulty rate (very high if put at the highest difficulty). The stage is Big Battlefield.
World 6 Boss 2: Metal Mario Bros. Battle: Pick a fighter and go head-to-head with Mario and Luigi, both under the metal condition. The enemy AI is set at a high difficulty rate (very high if put at the highest difficulty). The stage is Battlefield.
World 6 Boss 3: All-Star Battle: Secret: Pick a fighter and fight a group of eleven veterans who were secret unlockables at some point in their Super Smash Bros. career: Dark Pit, Duck Hunt Duo, Bowser Jr., Sonic, R.O.B., Toon Link, Dr. Mario, Ness, Captain Falcon, Jigglypuff, and Luigi in that order. The enemy AI is set at a high difficulty rate (very high if put at the highest difficulty). The stage is Battlefield.
World 6 Final Boss: The Final Battle: Pick a fighter and beat Bowser, Ganondorf, and King Dedede. The enemy AI is set at a very high difficulty rate. The stage is Final Destination.
World 6 FINAL Final Boss: The FINAL Final Battle: Pick a fighter and beat the guest characters + Mario with the Fast condition in order: New guest characters first followed by Pac-Man, Mega Man, Sonic, and finally Mario. The enemy AI is set at a high difficulty rate (highest if put at the highest difficulty). The stage is Battlefield.
World 6 Bonus Event: The True Final Battle: Pick a fighter and beat Master & Crazy Hand. Other fighters may randomly spawn as opponents with a medium difficulty AI. The difficulty rate affects the HP and power of Master & Crazy Hand. The stage is Final Destination.

edited 21st Jun '15 3:35:21 PM by Folt

Fantastic Supreme Überkaiser Emperor Folt of The Infinity and Beyond" ... "The First"!
Demonfly birdie fairy Since: Jul, 2012
birdie fairy
#76241: Jun 21st 2015 at 3:28:57 PM

not that Sakurai has obviously ever played a Fire Emblem game

It was noted in an interview that the main reason Sakurai was considering the Awakening trio is because he did indeed play it recently.

[up]Back before 4 was even announced, I was thinking about how Smash's Events and their nosedive in quality could easily be circumvented by letting players create and submit their own situations online, similar to Stage Builder.

Cue the Dull Surprise when nothing of the sort was implemented and the mode freely continued to be a commonly reported bore.

"Tell them to shut up and have some faith in me." - dead flashback guy
MightyMatilda Mr. Clueless from New Jersey, USA Since: Jan, 2015
Mr. Clueless
#76242: Jun 21st 2015 at 3:31:50 PM

The perfect Event Mode would have Melee's sheer variety of objectives, and Brawl's difficulty selection and co-op Events.

De Romanīs, lingua Latina gloriosa non fuī.
Pulse The Fool from Yadayadaville Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Fool
#76243: Jun 21st 2015 at 3:32:20 PM

Back before 4 was even announced, I was thinking about how Smash's Events and their nosedive in quality could easily be circumvented by letting players create and submit their own situations online, similar to Stage Builder.
Then again, Miiverse is a dick haven, so I'd hate to see what they'd do with a custom event setup.

I sure said that!
FullMoon feeling blue from Surface Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
feeling blue
#76244: Jun 21st 2015 at 3:54:45 PM

Hydro Pump is such a troll move I really need to make better use of it.

Keybreak (Long Runner)
#76245: Jun 21st 2015 at 3:59:04 PM

dick haven

I can vouch for that! I've seen at least three or four on the Miiverse stage.

Oh wait, did you mean "dick" like jerk or "dick" like penis.

Well I can vouch for either.

edited 21st Jun '15 3:59:55 PM by Keybreak

You gotta believe me when I scare you away, all that I wish for is that you would stay
Pulse The Fool from Yadayadaville Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Fool
#76246: Jun 21st 2015 at 5:02:02 PM

Either reading would be correct.

I sure said that!
powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#76247: Jun 21st 2015 at 7:25:07 PM

How many people have you guys seen want Bandana Dee to be a DLC character?

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!
MEKristian Since: Nov, 2009
#76248: Jun 21st 2015 at 8:57:05 PM

You can find support threads for most of the "big name" ballot entrants on places like Smashboards.

But the downside is that it's the Smash fandom, and specifically Smashboards, so things can get a little... hostile.

FullMoon feeling blue from Surface Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
BurntMario Oh hai TV Tropes from Your nightmares Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Oh hai TV Tropes
#76250: Jun 21st 2015 at 9:40:56 PM

[up] x4 If you want to find some quality Miiverse posts, you have to wade through all the dicks first.

[up] Well, it does kind of make sense that Ryu is overshadowing Roy, especially since the former is the only newcomer released as DLC so far.

Unpopular opinion time: Out of the three fighters we got a week ago, Roy was the one I was looking forward to the most.

Call me Willy Whistle 'cause I can't speak, baby. Something in TV Tropes really drove me crazy.

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