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powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#76201: Jun 20th 2015 at 7:08:17 PM

To be fair, I never understand why people hate clones in Smash. Hell, Ken was basically a Ryu clone to begin with in Street Fighter.

I think Lucina and Dark Pit will be Luigified like Falco was for Brawl.

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#76202: Jun 20th 2015 at 7:43:32 PM

Falco was quite different from Fox in Melee. Hell, Luigi was quite different from Mario in 64, compared to those two.

It isn't "they share animations". THEIR ATTACKS DO THE EXACT SAME THING, bar some punctual exceptions and details.

You can't compare them to the Melee clones, because the Melee clones just recycled animations. Lucina and Dark Pit are glorified skins.

And there is plenty of people complaining about Fire Emblem and Kid Icarus getting far too many characters DUE TO THOSE TWO.

I like them as characters in their games, I really do, but they were poorly handled in Smash. Alph was handled in a great way, despite people wanting him to get a slot as a tweaked Olimar.

Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#76203: Jun 20th 2015 at 8:04:08 PM

This is why I wish Dark Pit and Lucina had more differences. They have a great concept for their differentiation, but not enough came out of it.

Shadow?
BlitzTrain Since: Apr, 2014
#76204: Jun 20th 2015 at 8:06:52 PM

I get people thinking Dark Pit is too close to Pit to be worth being a separate character. But there's only 3 Kid Icarus characters, I don't see how that's too many.

I can see the argument for Fire Emblem, but personally I don't think there's really 'too many x franchise characters' as long as it's not a 3rd of the roster or something. Though the Mario cast is getting pretty big... tongue

powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#76205: Jun 20th 2015 at 8:14:00 PM

[up]I'm in favor of lesser known Nintendo franchises getting greater rep in this series.

You guys complain about Fire Emblem having 5 characters and Kid Icarus having 3 (though this is the same amount of characters that Star Fox has throughout the Smash series), yet I don't see any complaints about Mario having 14 characters and Pokemon having six characters.

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#76206: Jun 20th 2015 at 8:14:33 PM

Because Kid Icarus has had three games, one of which was an incredibly obscure Gameboy game that was never even released in Japan.

It doesn't help that Kid Icarus is Sakurai's latest project, so it feels like creator favoritism when taken along with how many items, Smash Run enemies, songs, and special features (Like the Temple conversations) the series got this installment.

Fire Emblem has five now, but it at least has 13 games to its name.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#76207: Jun 20th 2015 at 8:58:10 PM

And Mario is fucking Mario. People can name plenty of secondary Mario characters, but have no idea of who the main characters of some franchises are.

Pokemon is also fucking huge.

Seriously, if any series has some justification for having many characters, it is Mario, Pokemon and Zelda.

Kid Icarus having more reps than Metroid can be labelled as insulting. 3 reps is a quite good number for series such as Kirby or Star Fox, however. Fire Emblem would have fit there as well if Lucina didn't go beyond being a Marth costume, with 3 characters (plus a DLC one down the line).

Still, Mario and its subseries being the most represented ones, then Zelda and Pokemon, then the rest, IS natural for a Nintendo crossover.

...

On a different tangent, dissapointed at the lack of new Events related to the DLC content. It'd be a really neat touch.

powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#76208: Jun 20th 2015 at 10:03:13 PM

[up]I'm oddly not insulted by Kid Icarus having more reps than Metroid. I guess I don't mind more minor franchises getting more representation in Smash. As far as Metroid reps go I only think Ridley should be the next Metroid rep. (Though Dark Samus could be given the Little Mac treatment. Or the Dark Pit treatment of being an alt first, lol.)

Though I was somewhat insulted (over it now) that Duck Hunt was chosen in favor of Dixie Kong or K. Rool.

I think it's really our own differing opinions here. I don't mind more minor Nintendo franchises getting more representation than a major one, yet you do. (note: I'm not really counting Duck Hunt as part of a franchise, so this does not really apply to him)

Second tangent: I don't really care about event matches in this one. So no real opinion on this one.

edited 20th Jun '15 10:12:17 PM by powerpuffbats

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!
Alucart23 Since: Jun, 2015
#76209: Jun 20th 2015 at 10:22:52 PM

anyone got any ideas for dlc characters? id pick wolf and impa. The ocarina version that is. any others?

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#76210: Jun 20th 2015 at 10:24:12 PM

Why have Ocarina Impa when you could have Hyrule Warriors Impa? Preferably with Naginata.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Alucart23 Since: Jun, 2015
#76211: Jun 20th 2015 at 10:29:14 PM

well id like for her to have shiek's whip as a side special, but instead of electrical damage at the tip, shadow damage, because she is the sage of shadow

Folt Warlock Necromancer from Hollow Bastion! >=D Since: Jun, 2010
Warlock Necromancer
#76212: Jun 20th 2015 at 10:36:04 PM

Lucina is getting continuously buffed through patches so actually some people are not sure if Marth is still better than her or not, considering tippers are very situational.

Marth still kills earlier with his tippers (which in good play will come 80-95% of the time) and still has the safer attacks. Lucina's buffs do not fix these things.

To be fair, I never understand why people hate clones in Smash. Hell, Ken was basically a Ryu clone to begin with in Street Fighter.

Ken was a Ryu clone because the original Street Fighter wouldn't let you pick doubles. So if you wanted a Ryu vs. Ryu match, the closest thing you got was basically pitting Ryu and Ken against each other.

Fantastic Supreme Überkaiser Emperor Folt of The Infinity and Beyond" ... "The First"!
powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#76213: Jun 20th 2015 at 10:38:30 PM

[up] I was going with that sentence to basically say "Clones have existed in fighting games since the original Street Fighter, so it's sorta a fighting game trope."

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!
Folt Warlock Necromancer from Hollow Bastion! >=D Since: Jun, 2010
Warlock Necromancer
#76214: Jun 20th 2015 at 10:43:52 PM

[up] Maybe, but Ken added something to the original Street Fighter gameplay-wise: He allowed for pseudo-mirror matches of Ryu's moveset. Once Street Fighter 2 came out and they figured how to do mirror matches, Ken diverged from Ryu.

Fantastic Supreme Überkaiser Emperor Folt of The Infinity and Beyond" ... "The First"!
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#76215: Jun 20th 2015 at 10:44:41 PM

When it came time for lots of characters to show up, however, Ken changed starting from the first appearance he had where he didn't need to be identical. And while Ken is, among all the clones of that particular style, the most similar to Ryu, he's still different enough that while he can be played like Ryu he has his own nuances (he's basically the difference between Ness and Lucas - different normals, same specials with similar but distinct effects).

Lucina's odd in that even in a game where clones typically set themselves apart by having unique effects or characteristics despite their similarities, she's basically identical except for a slight difference in her damage output. Even Dark Pit (who, like Lucina, has all the same normals as the guy he clones) has his own Final Smash.

edited 20th Jun '15 10:46:55 PM by KnownUnknown

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#76216: Jun 20th 2015 at 10:48:39 PM

Dark Pit even has slightly different properties in his B and Side-B. Lucina is literally just an objectively inferior version of Marth, albeit easier to pick up.

Which is a damn shame and a disservice to the character.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
DrFurball Since: Jan, 2001
#76217: Jun 20th 2015 at 11:49:08 PM

What amuses me is that, when it comes to the clone characters, most of them are separate people from their source characters, yet play almost exactly the same...except for Dr. Mario, who is literally Mario dressed as a doctor. Yet he has the most differences from his source character, when all he did was change clothes!

edited 20th Jun '15 11:49:35 PM by DrFurball

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#76218: Jun 21st 2015 at 12:34:19 AM

[up]That doctor equipment weighs a ton.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Pulse The Fool from Yadayadaville Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Fool
#76219: Jun 21st 2015 at 12:38:25 AM

I tolerate him a lot more because of the oddities of Mario's access to the Tornado. Dark Pit and Lucina really need to either distinguish themselves more next time or just drop to being costumes with shared mechanics but their own victory animations and taunts.

I sure said that!
TechPowah Just a simple hero from the room down the hall Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Just a simple hero
#76220: Jun 21st 2015 at 4:49:34 AM

I think it's pretty clear by now that if a character enters the roster as a separate character, they STAY a separate character. If what Doc and Roy coming back separate is any indication, you either come back to the roster separate from the base character or you don't, with no in-between beyond misc representation like trophies. Even when Doc was planned to be a costume for Mario, the team decided to keep him separated because of him already having been playable on his own.

Grandfather Clauses are a hell of a drug. tongue

edited 21st Jun '15 4:50:39 AM by TechPowah

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BurntMario Oh hai TV Tropes from Your nightmares Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Oh hai TV Tropes
#76221: Jun 21st 2015 at 8:53:27 AM

Well, in a sense Dr. Mario makes the most sense as a clone because he is Mario.

Call me Willy Whistle 'cause I can't speak, baby. Something in TV Tropes really drove me crazy.
powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#76222: Jun 21st 2015 at 8:55:35 AM

[up]It's also why Captain Falcon, Ness, and Jigglypuff are still in the series to begin with. And why Marth still speaks japanese in Sm4sh despite being playable with an English voice in Awakening.

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!
MightyMatilda Mr. Clueless from New Jersey, USA Since: Jan, 2015
Mr. Clueless
#76223: Jun 21st 2015 at 9:12:48 AM

It's actually pretty weird seeing Jigglypuff being described as a clone, even though she was one waaay back in SSB 64.

De Romanīs, lingua Latina gloriosa non fuī.
Keybreak (Long Runner)
#76224: Jun 21st 2015 at 9:30:25 AM

Jigglypuff was not a clone. She was just floaty and Kirby-shaped.

You gotta believe me when I scare you away, all that I wish for is that you would stay
Laniv Since: Aug, 2010
#76225: Jun 21st 2015 at 9:32:20 AM

[up][up] She shared some animations, yes, but she was more of a semi-clone.


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