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Numbuh1234 Since: Apr, 2014
#74701: May 22nd 2015 at 8:21:38 PM

Well at least it doesn't go past 'D'.

And heck, Zelda's still pretty good in 2v2, since now there's an ally to allow her to use her strengths and team synergy is more important than which character.

Then again, I could say that about any Low-Tier character...

Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#74702: May 22nd 2015 at 9:13:46 PM

First one I've seen that puts Lucina and Marth on the same tier.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
FullMoon feeling blue from Surface Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
feeling blue
#74703: May 22nd 2015 at 9:24:32 PM

I just noticed C+ tier is Fire Emblem tier.

Also I'm going to take part in another online invintational tomorrow, not sure if my matches will be streamed this time but hey, I got 3rd last time so maybe I'll do better this time... Or worse.

BurntMario Oh hai TV Tropes from Your nightmares Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Oh hai TV Tropes
#74704: May 22nd 2015 at 9:26:47 PM

I'm assuming it's Dark Pit's forward tilt that puts him below vanilla Pit?

Call me Willy Whistle 'cause I can't speak, baby. Something in TV Tropes really drove me crazy.
FullMoon feeling blue from Surface Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
feeling blue
#74705: May 22nd 2015 at 9:30:03 PM

That and Electroshock Arm's launch angle is worse than Upperdash's for killing. The only match up where Dark Pit is a superior choice than Pit is against Rosalina because Electroshock annhiliates Luma.

HeavyDDR Who's Vergo-san. from Central Texas Since: Jul, 2009
Who's Vergo-san.
#74706: May 23rd 2015 at 12:05:35 AM

Why is Dedede so consistently put on low ends of tier lists. Not that I take any of them too seriously as of now, but it seems like his placement comes more from people simply not using him, not because he's disadvantaged.

I'm pretty sure the concept of Law having limits was a translation error. -Wanderlustwarrior
FullMoon feeling blue from Surface Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
feeling blue
#74707: May 23rd 2015 at 12:17:34 AM

Dedede has an unreliable projectile, his moves have a lot more start-up than most of the heavy characters, he's combo meat and he doesn't even hit as hard as the other heavyweights while also having terrible speed in the air in spite of having multiple jumps.

He has very little going for him, even his mains at Smashboards have admitted that Dedede is a candidate to worst character in the game.

HeavyDDR Who's Vergo-san. from Central Texas Since: Jul, 2009
Who's Vergo-san.
#74708: May 23rd 2015 at 12:26:58 AM

Worst? That's a major exaggeration considering some characters and their showing, and I'd say gordos are only unreliable in unreliable hands. I hardly have any problem using gordos, and I've taken decent seats with Dedede at local tournaments. I think he has some poor match ups against highly rated characters, like Shiek and Rosalina, but I've fought a pretty wide spectrum without big problems.

I think people just don't use Dedede and give him a bad showing when they do. Metas unfortunately form around that, and I think the community as a whole favors lightning combos over, well, any other playstyle.

And I've not seen this Dedede self-hate but then again I don't lurk too often around Smashboards, but the one other Dedede main I've met in real life doesn't think too lowly of him either.

I'm pretty sure the concept of Law having limits was a translation error. -Wanderlustwarrior
FullMoon feeling blue from Surface Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
feeling blue
#74709: May 23rd 2015 at 6:05:48 AM

Dedede also probably has the worst match-up in the whole game against Megaman who can just zone him out and Dedede can't do anything about it because Gordos are reflected by pellets.

In general Dedede tends to not have very favorable match-ups as he's generally out-camped (Megaman, Toon Link, Pac-Man, ROB), combo'd to death (Sheik, Greninja, Luigi, Mario...) or both (Rosalina, Pikachu).

Doing badly against most characters in the higher end of the cast usually places you at the bottom.

Do note that being the worst in this game isn't as bad as in the other games. A good Dedede can still win tournaments, he's just going to struggle a lot more than the others to win. Even Zelda has seen high level play for example.

HeavyDDR Who's Vergo-san. from Central Texas Since: Jul, 2009
Who's Vergo-san.
#74710: May 23rd 2015 at 7:17:08 AM

I still think that ultimately, his lower placements come from mishandling and dismissing his abilities. I still see people calling Jet Hammer a useless move when I think most Dedede mains are learning more about its potential, especially in hard-reads.

I'll also throw in that I play a particularly defensive Dededem, which, again, is a general playstyle I don't see a lot, and I'm positive most of that comes from offensive playstyles being glorified. Since, well, it's pretty easy to make big videos out of offensive plays, not defensive ones. Regardless, the recurring complaint for Dedede is gordo backfire, which I don't see as a solid argument since that's user error.

I won't argue Dedede is best, because definitely the meta favors any character that just has zero lag on attacks, but I still think people are quick to denounce him simply because of some less than stellar match-ups and gimmicks people mishandle.

For real though, I've seen "serious" advice suggesting that you should always have a gordo out, at all times. I know some players just seem to not know the mechanics of gordos but I can't imagine anyone has been so lucky in their Dedede career to not have people constantly punishing them for that. It just isn't a standard projectile at all.

I'm pretty sure the concept of Law having limits was a translation error. -Wanderlustwarrior
FullMoon feeling blue from Surface Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
feeling blue
#74711: May 23rd 2015 at 8:14:03 AM

The whole game is still new, Dedede is not the only one not being played optimally, nobody else is. The fact that he's already doing poorly now just doesn't bode well in the long run unless something big is found or he gets buffed in a patch

Greninja has combos that once mastered mean that he can do as much as 80% on the opponent or at very least 50% on literaly anyone but Greninja mains still haven't gotten the timing down for it so as it stands I think Greninja still isn't high tier.

In comparison, what tricks does Dedede have that are unexplored and could make a big difference?

Every character has room to grow, but some are already being left behind.

powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#74712: May 23rd 2015 at 9:34:17 AM

Wow, Dedede and Falco fell the most from Brawl to this one in terms of tier lists.

Though I can use most of the cast in this one better than Meta Knight.

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!
TroPartner Since: Nov, 2014
#74713: May 23rd 2015 at 3:01:26 PM

After a long hiatus from the game, I hopped back onto For Glory to see how much I've rusted. Using all four of my mains, I beat a Zelda/Ganon player 4-1. Still okay, I guess.

FullMoon feeling blue from Surface Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
TroPartner Since: Nov, 2014
#74715: May 23rd 2015 at 6:49:43 PM

Well, my battery's just about gone, so I'll have to get in later. Hopefully, I'll catch you in one of your matches, and hear the commentator's reactions.grin

FullMoon feeling blue from Surface Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
feeling blue
#74716: May 23rd 2015 at 6:55:06 PM

I already got sent to Losers so the only way I'm showing up on stream now is if I reach Losers finals =V

Kuroxeng Moved accounts because meh from error 040 Since: Mar, 2015
Moved accounts because meh
#74717: May 23rd 2015 at 7:06:59 PM

So I fought one match with Moon. It further proved how bad my air game is.

Then an interruption from real life happened for about 20 minutes.

Man, the Wii U needs a messaging system closer to the 360: small onscreen notification and also should just let us use the Home button while playing online.

It's ridicilous that we can't check for messages or friends unless we go all the way back to the main menu. No, not the online menu, the main main menu.

edited 23rd May '15 7:07:30 PM by Kuroxeng

Moved handles because meh
TroPartner Since: Nov, 2014
#74718: May 23rd 2015 at 7:37:40 PM

And the automatic disconnection for idle activity is also infuriating.

edited 23rd May '15 7:38:08 PM by TroPartner

powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#74719: May 23rd 2015 at 8:15:24 PM

Yeah, Nintendo needs to fix their online service when it comes to multiplayer.

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!
Kuroxeng Moved accounts because meh from error 040 Since: Mar, 2015
Moved accounts because meh
#74720: May 23rd 2015 at 8:22:30 PM

It's not the service really, just the interface.

Someone sent you a message? Well, hope you're not using a different controller than the gamepad, or you won't even notice!

Want to tell your friends you'll be gone for 30 minutes but up for a game afterwards? Well, you first gotta disconnect from online, boot up Miiverse, go to the message center within Miiverse, send message and then you have to hope they even notice they got a message!

We need:

  • For the UI to just let us use the home button whenever.
  • Some messaging system that doesn't require Miiverse to be booted up. Would be much quicker if it was just integrated to the mini menu thing.

Moved handles because meh
FullMoon feeling blue from Surface Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
feeling blue
#74721: May 23rd 2015 at 8:24:32 PM

Well I got taken out, didn't even place this time because I had to fight the winner of the last invitational I played right off the bat and then he fell into losers lol.

BlitzTrain Since: Apr, 2014
#74722: May 23rd 2015 at 8:35:59 PM

At least you know you lost to a high profile player, for whatever consolation that is.

Konkfan7 Konknitive Dissonance from Roselle Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Konknitive Dissonance
#74723: May 23rd 2015 at 8:37:01 PM

So, I've been playing Fire Emblem Mystery Of The Emblem.

For those of you who like making "Marth is a girl" jokes, I'll tell you this;

His in-game sprite doesn't portray him with pants.

powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#74724: May 23rd 2015 at 8:37:41 PM

[up]So...he's Link?

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!
MightyMatilda Mr. Clueless from New Jersey, USA Since: Jan, 2015
Mr. Clueless
#74725: May 23rd 2015 at 8:39:44 PM

[up] Yes.

De Romanīs, lingua Latina gloriosa non fuī.

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