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Zarek Rollin' rollin' rollin' from Jakku Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Rollin' rollin' rollin'
#73451: Apr 22nd 2015 at 12:43:16 PM

Nothing against the sane ones. The delusional ones however make me want to puke.

Could you, like, actually make points for your argument instead of vaguely insulting me?

"We're home, Chewie."
Fawriel Since: Jan, 2001
#73452: Apr 22nd 2015 at 12:56:22 PM

Nothing against the sane ones. The delusional ones however make me want to puke.
If you consider making jokes insane and delusional, I have to either question your own sanity or get back to the "why do you hate fun" argument.

Okay, look, uh. The problem here is two-fold. First of all, you're still treating a joking post as something serious. Like, the intent of Zarek's post was clearly to express that they vastly prefer the female Robin. Like, I want to make this as clear as I can here. They used blatant hyperbole to express that, and if for some reason you are unable to recognize that, I'm sorry but I should hope it's been made clear enough by this point.

The other problem is that you're countering that joke with facts that don't mean anything or shouldn't mean anything, and acting like pointing out those facts means that everyone should concede your point and change their poor little unreasonable opinions. That's the really annoying part here. We are all aware that male Robin is the default on the select screen, and in any other respect. First of all, as I said, that doesn't have anything to do with the subject, which was that Zarek prefers the female version. That aside, should it matter? You're calling it "importance", but what does that even mean? "Important" for what? Would the game fall apart if the female version was the default? That's a weird word choice. Okay, the thing is, Sakurai clearly made male the default. As I said, that's because of cultural norms. And as I said, we are all aware of that, and frankly the implication that you apparently think we don't realize that is pretty insulting. And just because Sakurai has these cultural standards doesn't mean that's something we have to shut up and accept as fact. This whole thing about gender and stuff is just a small aside, but it really adds yet another dimension of annoyance to this whole thing.

... In conclusion, I actually don't feel like arguing about this, but I hope I made clear enough why these couple of posts have been somewhat disgruntling to read?

NEO from Qrrbrbirlbel Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
#73453: Apr 22nd 2015 at 12:56:53 PM

Wait, are we getting on a fight over the goddamn male and female Robin debate?

No regret shall pass over the threshold!
Fawriel Since: Jan, 2001
#73454: Apr 22nd 2015 at 12:59:50 PM

I'd prefer to keep it as an "everyone sit down and reflect on why you suck at communicating", really.

TroPartner Since: Nov, 2014
#73455: Apr 22nd 2015 at 1:19:06 PM

[up][up]Yes, which is why I'm not contributing a whole lot.

edited 22nd Apr '15 1:19:56 PM by TroPartner

Paperbritt Since: Apr, 2013
#73456: Apr 22nd 2015 at 1:21:08 PM

Obviously the "alt" characters aren't more or less important than the "default" characters.

Because that would imply that Bowser Jr. is more important than the Koopalings and that's just a profanity against nature.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#73457: Apr 22nd 2015 at 1:23:35 PM

[up]Hear hear. Roy's mah boy.

Zarek Rollin' rollin' rollin' from Jakku Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Rollin' rollin' rollin'
#73458: Apr 22nd 2015 at 1:26:23 PM

Because that would imply that Bowser Jr. is more important than the Koopalings and that's just a profanity against nature.

...Weeeell...let's not go crazy here...

"We're home, Chewie."
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#73459: Apr 22nd 2015 at 1:31:23 PM

He obviously is now.

Anyway, picked up a second Gamecube Controller adapter.

Shadow?
BlitzTrain Since: Apr, 2014
#73460: Apr 22nd 2015 at 1:33:33 PM

Random thought: Ness can reflect projectiles with his bat (I can't remember if he did that in any of the other versions). Do you think Lucas will be able to do that with his stick too? Or is that going to stay a Ness thing to differentiate the two?

FullMoon feeling blue from Surface Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
feeling blue
#73461: Apr 22nd 2015 at 1:35:16 PM

Lucas was already shown reflecting Villager's Lloyd Rocket in his trailer.

powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#73462: Apr 22nd 2015 at 1:35:38 PM

This entire debate made me facepalm. Not because of Fawriel, but who was being responded to. My stream friends would have a field day with the whole "male is the default" thing. (though I myself, as a male, think that is sexist. True, but very sexist)

Also, why were we only arguing about Robin? Villager and Wii Fit Trainer also have gender alts (with WFT being in a similar scenario to Robin with different voice actors for the gender).

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!
BlitzTrain Since: Apr, 2014
#73463: Apr 22nd 2015 at 1:35:57 PM

[up][up] Ah, I didn't notice that.

edited 22nd Apr '15 1:41:54 PM by BlitzTrain

Konkfan7 Konknitive Dissonance from Roselle Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Konknitive Dissonance
#73464: Apr 22nd 2015 at 1:46:09 PM

... I don't even know what's going on.

I don't even think I care. I play as Male Robin 50% of the time and Female Robin the other 50% of the time.

Zarek Rollin' rollin' rollin' from Jakku Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Rollin' rollin' rollin'
#73465: Apr 22nd 2015 at 1:46:11 PM

[up][up][up]Wii Fit Trainer is different because her default form is female, which makes a world of difference in a game that already has a much larger male-to-female ratio.

...For some reason, though, Villager doesn't bother me the way Robin does. Like, for all intents and purposes, it should, but it doesn't. I'm totally fine playing the default male Villager and don't object to him being the default. I think I'm a bit of a hypocrite, honestly.

edited 22nd Apr '15 1:46:35 PM by Zarek

"We're home, Chewie."
Konkfan7 Konknitive Dissonance from Roselle Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Konknitive Dissonance
#73466: Apr 22nd 2015 at 1:48:30 PM

My two cents: One had to be the default, and to my knowledge there's no canon Robin, so I assume this is how Sakurai decided, and this is how I would decide myself.

-flips coin-

Heads, male Robin it is.evil grin

Fawriel Since: Jan, 2001
#73467: Apr 22nd 2015 at 1:52:09 PM

This entire debate made me facepalm. Not because of Fawriel, but who was being responded to. My stream friends would have a field day with the whole "male is the default" thing. (though I myself, as a male, think that is sexist. True, but very sexist)

Also, why were we only arguing about Robin? Villager and Wii Fit Trainer also have gender alts (with WFT being in a similar scenario to Robin with different voice actors for the gender).

For the first part, I... I'm actually not sure what you're saying. (To be sure about the part in parentheses: The idea that males are "the default" is pretty much the base assumption of sexism, and is in fact so natural that most people don't consciously recognize it as a thing. The existence of the idea is a fact. Males being some sort of "default" is, of course, not a fact. [In fact, I think females might have more of a claim to that, considering how embryos develop.] Just wanted to make sure because I'm not sure how to interpret "True, but sexist.")

As for the latter, the reason is because the "debate" wasn't about sexism in the first place. That's the tricky thing here. There were a lot of subjects in there that you can form attacks out of, but ultimately the reason why we ended up in an argument about something as unimportant as character alt preferences in a videogame is because of a simple misunderstanding. Zarek stated a preference, Folt saw something in there that Zarek didn't intend and made arguments against these points that no one ever made. And that's how these things turn into flamewars, because everyone starts taking things personally and returning fire instead of recognizing that the situation doesn't make a lick of sense, taking a step back and trying to figure out where it went wrong.

Zarek Rollin' rollin' rollin' from Jakku Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Rollin' rollin' rollin'
#73468: Apr 22nd 2015 at 1:54:57 PM

[up][up]But again, the game already has so many male characters whose gender can't be altered. Making the gender-mutable characters default to female, while not actually really altering the game's overall gender ratio, would do a little more to increase gender representation.

I recognize Sakurai had to make a decision. But given that it was a stupid-ass decision, I've elected to ignore it.

"We're home, Chewie."
Konkfan7 Konknitive Dissonance from Roselle Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Konknitive Dissonance
#73469: Apr 22nd 2015 at 1:59:33 PM

... You know what?

I don't care. No, seriously, I don't care.

It's a frikkin' slapstick fighting game of Nintendo characters where the antagonist is a giant glove and all the characters are living toys. Why is this debate even happening? Why can't we just enjoy the game?

(Also, please note that Female Robin could've been not included all together.)

FullMoon feeling blue from Surface Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
feeling blue
#73470: Apr 22nd 2015 at 2:00:14 PM

I like how we're saying that Sakurai made male the default one because "cultural norms" when the female Wii Fit trainer is the default one and had her trailer not even feature her male version, that didn't get announced until much later, while female Robin at least got a small bit for her in Robin's trailer.

It totally can't be because Sakurai had to make one of the two the default one and just decided to go with male Robin, it must have been because his of culture since who the hell likes male Robin?

This whole debate is so silly.

Konkfan7 Konknitive Dissonance from Roselle Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Enderspy (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: In bed with a green-skinned space babe
#73472: Apr 22nd 2015 at 2:02:13 PM

Agreed. One of the stupidest argument this thread has ever had.

Konkfan7 Konknitive Dissonance from Roselle Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Konknitive Dissonance
#73473: Apr 22nd 2015 at 2:03:19 PM

One of the stupidest arguments I've ever seen, actually. Well, the whole "Wii Fit Trainer is Fat Shaming" still has the crown.evil grin

Demonfly birdie fairy Since: Jul, 2012
birdie fairy
#73474: Apr 22nd 2015 at 2:03:59 PM

objectively wrong in my opinion

...How does this even...

I saw an article (that might have been linked earlier in the thread) that said they made Lucina separate from Marth was because they didn't want the mechanic change messing with the records

Sure didn't stop Zelda, Samus, or PKMN Trainer in the previous games.

that would imply that Bowser Jr. is more important than the Koopalings and that's just a profanity against nature

>implying he isn't

edited 22nd Apr '15 2:07:06 PM by Demonfly

"Tell them to shut up and have some faith in me." - dead flashback guy
Enderspy (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: In bed with a green-skinned space babe
#73475: Apr 22nd 2015 at 2:06:59 PM

So on another note, any ideas on what Lucas's custom moves will be?


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