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Hashil Since: Aug, 2010
#69576: Feb 16th 2015 at 9:31:34 PM

They're still considered high tier as far as I know, just not nearly as popular as Sheik and especially Diddy.

FullMoon feeling blue from Surface Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Nap1100 Since: Mar, 2012
#69578: Feb 17th 2015 at 6:05:49 AM

Contrary to popular belief, anyone in the A tier and above is considered viable in Melee. It's just Fox has so many tools that he stands above the rest.

And I think the point of the article was how interesting it is when people find untapped potential in a character originally seen as low tier even though balance patches don't exist. Jigglypuff being the prime suspect of that case. Balance patches are cool and all but sometimes it's better to just let a game evolve on its own.

Hungryguy I am a Rad Reptile. from inside a cheese wheel Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
I am a Rad Reptile.
#69579: Feb 17th 2015 at 6:22:44 AM

Did you guys know Bowser's u-tilt can't hit in front of him anymore?

Call me butter, because I am on a roll! 3ds friend code: 5258-0885-3903 Wii U: Bowser Charizard
Fawriel Since: Jan, 2001
#69580: Feb 17th 2015 at 6:26:49 AM

From what I hear, Fox is considered to have the absolute most potential of any character... but doesn't actually win tournaments all that often. In theory he can destroy everything mercilessly, but in practice, what separates Melee's Fox from Brawl's Metaknight is that the former actually has meaningful weaknesses. Unless the Fox player makes no mistakes, his weaknesses will be exploited, and that's something very many characters can do.

It doesn't make any sense to claim that "only" Fox is viable when one of the most powerful players in the world has a widely feared Young Link and a Pikachu player has been making waves, among others. Sure, those less common characters are less common because they don't have as much potential and a lot of their wins can be chalked up to their opponents not being used to the matchup, but that's how the game works. You're not pitting perfect computers against one another, but fallible humans. So as long as the best characters have sufficiently great weaknesses, they will still be beaten.

(Now of course, the question is how big a weakness is sufficient. Diddy has terrible vertical recovery, but apparently people aren't managing to make use of that. Probably because his horizontal recovery is quite good and there's barely any attacks that don't send you upwards.)

Hungryguy I am a Rad Reptile. from inside a cheese wheel Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
I am a Rad Reptile.
#69581: Feb 17th 2015 at 6:47:05 AM

I'd say Diddy's biggest weakness is that if his recovery is interrupted he can't use it again. I've seen did Kong players, as well as my Diddy amiibo, recover from just above the blast line.

Call me butter, because I am on a roll! 3ds friend code: 5258-0885-3903 Wii U: Bowser Charizard
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#69582: Feb 17th 2015 at 7:08:07 AM

So characters with arcing projectiles would have an advantage if they can get him off and down? Say, Dedede smacking a Gordo into Diddy as he attempts to recover?

Hungryguy I am a Rad Reptile. from inside a cheese wheel Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
I am a Rad Reptile.
#69583: Feb 17th 2015 at 7:22:41 AM

Even Diddy's own Banana could be used against him. He's totally helpless if you have the guts to straight up attack him while he's recovering or smart enough to be able to hit him with a projectile like the Gordos.

Call me butter, because I am on a roll! 3ds friend code: 5258-0885-3903 Wii U: Bowser Charizard
FullMoon feeling blue from Surface Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
feeling blue
#69584: Feb 17th 2015 at 7:52:44 AM

My favorite pro-Smasher is aMSa, he plays Yoshi in Melee and even got to Top 8 with him and his Yoshi is just crazy. In Sm4sh he plays Greninja and was the one responsible for people to start paying more attention to the frog now.

Actually, it seems that Japanese players are way above everyone else when it comes to playing Greninja, the Japanese are finding all kinds of frame-perfect combos with him that can make an opponent go from 0% to 70% and other things like that.

Pulse The Fool from Yadayadaville Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Fool
#69585: Feb 17th 2015 at 8:54:40 AM

Actually, it seems that Japanese players are way above everyone else when it comes to playing Greninja, the Japanese are finding all kinds of frame-perfect combos with him that can make an opponent go from 0% to 70% and other things like that.
That's... That's really bad. Seriously, being hit with 70% for the terrible crime of making one mistake is why the standard fighting game meta is considered so insular and impossible to join.

I sure said that!
Nap1100 Since: Mar, 2012
#69586: Feb 17th 2015 at 9:13:41 AM

Well considering it takes getting to 110% or so to get a kill in this game...

Demonfly birdie fairy Since: Jul, 2012
birdie fairy
#69587: Feb 17th 2015 at 9:19:45 AM

And when every other offensive tactic in the game is automatically gimped by merely shielding...

"Tell them to shut up and have some faith in me." - dead flashback guy
FullMoon feeling blue from Surface Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
feeling blue
#69588: Feb 17th 2015 at 9:29:08 AM

It's also ridiculously hard to perform.

So I don't think it'll be seeing much use outside of very rare situations.

But yeah, don't underestimate the frog.

edited 17th Feb '15 9:37:36 AM by FullMoon

MightyMatilda Mr. Clueless from New Jersey, USA Since: Jan, 2015
Mr. Clueless
#69589: Feb 17th 2015 at 12:15:19 PM

I remember a video of Super Smash Flash 2 where one character was able to get another character from 0% to around 70% in a few seconds. Believe it or not, this was meant to show off how awesome the game is.

De Romanīs, lingua Latina gloriosa non fuī.
Makeyejr ...? from Michigan (Above the Bridge) Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: Staying up all night to get lucky
...?
#69590: Feb 17th 2015 at 2:20:54 PM

So, I've been mainly playing Bowser, since I find him the most fun. Quick question, since you all have far more experience then me: Is he actually any good in Online Play, or not?

Hungryguy I am a Rad Reptile. from inside a cheese wheel Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
I am a Rad Reptile.
#69591: Feb 17th 2015 at 2:25:23 PM

With enough skill, absolutely devastating. I should know, I main him.

Call me butter, because I am on a roll! 3ds friend code: 5258-0885-3903 Wii U: Bowser Charizard
powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#69592: Feb 17th 2015 at 2:38:05 PM

Typically, performance in a match depends on three factos:

  • 1: Are items allowed in the match

  • 2: Stage chosen

  • 3. How good you are with that character you're using.

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#69593: Feb 17th 2015 at 2:44:01 PM

  • 4: How does your character match up against the opponent's?

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Keybreak (Long Runner)
#69594: Feb 17th 2015 at 2:44:14 PM

What about the time of day.

And who you're playing against.

And who they're using.

And if your opponent is an amiibo.

And whether the stage is Omega or not.

And what you ate before the match.

You gotta believe me when I scare you away, all that I wish for is that you would stay
Trip Since: Mar, 2012
#69595: Feb 17th 2015 at 2:44:21 PM

four factos, actualy

  • 4: how raised your dongers are

Elbruno Mummy Woomy from Chile: Not As Dry As Space! Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Mummy Woomy
#69596: Feb 17th 2015 at 2:50:59 PM

  • π: Your current ability to not get too excited pressing B and cycle back to Monado Jump.

"Yeah, it's a shame. Here we are in an underground cave with all these lasers, and instead of having a rave we're using it for evil."
Demonfly birdie fairy Since: Jul, 2012
birdie fairy
#69597: Feb 17th 2015 at 2:51:31 PM

Is he actually any good in Online Play, or not?

Like a lot of this game's heavyweights, Bowser suffers quite a bit from his more potent moves being either heavily telegraphed and/or leaving him wide open. Against faster characters/players, you'll likely just end up getting kicked around far more often than actually kicking people around.

Plus his recovery options are pretty subpar in a game where most of the cast have recoveries ranging from "great" to "god-tier".

edited 17th Feb '15 2:54:12 PM by Demonfly

"Tell them to shut up and have some faith in me." - dead flashback guy
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#69598: Feb 17th 2015 at 3:29:00 PM

He does well in 4x4, however.

Pulse The Fool from Yadayadaville Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Fool
#69599: Feb 17th 2015 at 3:32:01 PM

Bowser's capable of landing incredibly powerful hits but won't be getting them off very often. On the other hand, he has several good mid-power moves available to himself that come out faster than you'd expect, usually at the price of range. An important tool in his belt is the Whirling Fortress- On the ground, it starts very fast and can land either a single big hit right on startup or a lot of little ones if you space and time it right.

I sure said that!
Konkfan7 Konknitive Dissonance from Roselle Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Konknitive Dissonance
#69600: Feb 17th 2015 at 3:35:13 PM

Lately, I've been using the trophy photo thing more than playing the actual game.

How do I upload photos?


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