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randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#68951: Feb 1st 2015 at 10:50:32 AM

Um...the thing is though, if they were going to the trouble of re-balancing a clone character, there would be no reason to make them an Alt.

If a character is going to be an Alt. skin, they're going to be that the moment they decide to start making the model, if a clone character is going to have move-set differences...they either get in as a clone or they don't because if there isn't much time left and they get cut because low priority.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Enderspy (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: In bed with a green-skinned space babe
#68952: Feb 1st 2015 at 10:58:45 AM

[up][up][up][up]You do realize that every previous entry had similarly unexpected characters introduced, right? Brawl had Rob, Pit, and Snake, while Melee had G&W, Ice Climbers, and the Fire Emblem duo. Heck, even in the original, did anyone really expect Captain Falcon, Ness, and Jigglypuff? It's pretty much obligatory to add a few retro or otherwise unusual characters into the series at this point. And, while Wolf could return eventually and Dixie and Viridi are possibilities, Krystal is very much a scrappy in Japan, so her chances are pretty low.

powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#68953: Feb 1st 2015 at 11:00:18 AM

[up]Yes, I am aware of that, but Duck Hunt wouldn't normally be fit for a fighting game.

Also, I heard that Pit was requested to be in a Smash Bros. game after Melee.

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#68954: Feb 1st 2015 at 11:01:58 AM

Well, I'd argue Wii Fit Trainer, Villager and Duck Hunt are quite unique characters, and quite relevant; Wii Fit sold plenty and became ingrained with the Wii franchise, Animal Crossing sells like hotcakes, and everybody knows of the Duck Hunt dog. Meanwhile, Viridi would be seen as Sakurai pandering to his creations (and there's plenty of people who raise an eyebow to Palutena) and Krystal is quite controversial (and Star Fox getting 4 reps is going to make a ruckus).

And those characters you mentioned wouldn't get in the way of Dixie Kong (who I feel is more relevant than K.Rool, villian-starved as Smash may be).

So yeah, Ridley for Smash, and no need to axe characters when you can make them alts.

Enderspy (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: In bed with a green-skinned space babe
#68955: Feb 1st 2015 at 11:04:54 AM

[up][up]Neither would an NES peripheral for a pair of stacking games, and yet look at Rob. And on the note of requested characters, Duck Hunt and Villager had quite a lot of requests as well back during Brawl's development.

powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#68956: Feb 1st 2015 at 11:06:14 AM

[up][up] A few things to say to that:

1. I will never understand why Krystal is controversial. Granted, Assault was not only my first Star Fox game, but also the first plot-based game that I played (that wasn't a licensed game) (hey, I was born the same year that Star Fox 64 came out)

2. I'd rather have had Viridi over Dark Pit having his own slot. At least Viridi would've been unique, and we'd have another female

EDIT: [up]I remember reading on this site that Villager and Nintendog were considered for Brawl, but I don't think Sakurai was able to think of a moveset for the former. For the latter, Sakurai didn't want to think of people beating up a dog, IIRC.

edited 1st Feb '15 11:08:17 AM by powerpuffbats

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!
RavenKingSage MY NAME IS GUNDHAM TANAKA Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: The Skitty to my Wailord
MY NAME IS GUNDHAM TANAKA
#68957: Feb 1st 2015 at 11:09:17 AM

[up][up][up]It's nice to still see some support for him

What is a fandom? A miserable little pile of flame wars! 3DS FC: 0387-9377-7408 PSN ID: Raven King Sage
powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#68958: Feb 1st 2015 at 11:11:15 AM

[up]I've given up on Ridley as he's a boss, but I'd still like to see him playable.

Most of my DLC wishes are characters I like, so that's why I want Krystal in the game. Besides, if you don't like her, you could beat her up.

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!
Sterok Since: Apr, 2012
#68959: Feb 1st 2015 at 11:12:42 AM

If I could have added only one character in Smash 4, it would've been Villager, and I don't even play him much. Animal Crossing is way too big and important to only have a stage.

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#68960: Feb 1st 2015 at 11:16:13 AM

Furry Fandom, Romantic Plot Tumor, and Mary Sue overtones are reasons people dislike Krystal. Myself, I am indifferent, however, I feel like Star Fox is one of those series that has an optimal number of reps in 3, and Fox, Falco and Wolf fill that quota just fine. Still, if she made it, I wouldn't argue to see her getting the axe.

Oh, and, you said you'd want another female, yet you axed two characters that can be female. And Kid Icarus is a quite minor franchise that would be just fine with 2 reps anyway, at least in my opinion.

Ridley, well, Sakurai thinks his size is part of his character. It really isn't, and the relative size ajustment he'd be subject to would be similar to that of Bowser or Ganondorf, but oh well, one can always wait for the next Smash. I've already waited for 8 years, but hey, it is not that huge of a pressure, and I'm getting my Melee main back.

FullMoon feeling blue from Surface Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
feeling blue
#68961: Feb 1st 2015 at 11:21:56 AM

I only want Lucas back so I could have all my past mains along my current main as secondaries (Mario in 64 and Melee; and Lucas in Brawl with current being Greninja, of course). As long as Greninja stays in Smash, I don't really care about any newcomers tongue

edited 1st Feb '15 11:22:37 AM by FullMoon

powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#68962: Feb 1st 2015 at 11:23:29 AM

[up][up] I usually stick to the main costumes, plus I don't really use Villager, whose default is the male one. Wii Fit, you got me, I'll admit. Robin's the only one of the three that I really use the alt. gender form.

EDIT: Even in my axing of two characters that can be female, I did suggest three other female characters (Krystal, Viridi, and Dixie Kong).

edited 1st Feb '15 11:25:26 AM by powerpuffbats

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#68963: Feb 1st 2015 at 11:28:51 AM

Touché, and, in any case, it was a minor point that shouldn't be brought up, so my apologices.

Folt Warlock Necromancer from Hollow Bastion! >=D Since: Jun, 2010
Warlock Necromancer
#68964: Feb 1st 2015 at 11:58:40 AM

I'd put Robin and Villager a male in the same way as I put Wii Fit Trainer as a female: That's their default gender, and they are promoted the most in that form (main trophies, trailer and official artwork, amiibos, Final Smash trophies, etc.). But that's just me.

On other notes, I'd say Robin also fills the quota of having the main lord from the newest game appear in Smash (and technically, it still counts if you think Chrom is the main lord, since he's a part of Robin's moveset).

I have no issue with Dr. Mario, who exists partly to act as a Melee!Mario moveset, nor do I have an issue with Lucina, who at least is a fan-favorite character from a long-running franchise. Dark Pit, however, still really jars me- Kid Icarus really hasn't been enough of a thing to warrant three characters on the Character Select Screen, even with Uprising's big boost, especially not in the same game that cut Mother and Star Fox's character rosters by one each and still has left Captain Falcon all by himself in the F-Zero lineup. Another franchise should've gotten a made-in-five-seconds clone instead.

All three series you mentioned has a lack of recent games though (the Mother series is even, for all purposes, dead) at the time the roster was finalized though. If not for Dark Pit' ascencion from an alt to a clone, we'd have just 2 Kid Icarus reps which is about right (and Fire Emblem would have just 3, all consisting of main lords from the games they appeared in, one appealing to the Japanese, one appealing to the West, and one being the newest lord, or technically getting the newest lord into the roster by having that lord being an assist character... it would result in the two most important new FE characters being in).

Of the rest, a good amount of persons thought that 3 reps were too much for Star Fox (which resulted in Wolf being cut and one Fox's custom moves being similiar to one of his specials while the another is for all purposes that move), while F-Zero has a vast amount of characters, Cpt. Falcon is perfectly capable of repping the series as a playable character by himself (and Cpt. Falcon's popularity in general is more-so than any of the other racers). The Mother series is dead and only needs one playable character to rep it, so it makes sense that instead of putting two characters in, they took the most iconic one and gave him some of the cut character's traits (like his special variants as custom moves).

Fantastic Supreme Überkaiser Emperor Folt of The Infinity and Beyond" ... "The First"!
Keybreak (Long Runner)
#68965: Feb 1st 2015 at 12:29:20 PM

I've loved Krystal from the beginning...I like her voice. And I wondered if she was in Smash whether she'd use her Star Fox Adventures outfit and fight with her staff or her Star Fox: Assault outfit and fight with her blaster. Probably her blaster so she might be a "clone" of Fox, or she could have a completely different moveset. She is a telepath after all.

Though I play all of the gender-variable fighters as male. Wii Fit Trainer in particular just because I relate more with male, though I don't have so much against the female trainer...I DO have something against female Robin. I find her somewhat more bothersome than male Robin. The female Villagers are fine but they don't even speak.

Anyway, franchise representation seems arbitrary. Mario has a long-lived franchise with a lot of spin-offs, Pokemon is its own Cash-Cow Franchise, and The Legend of Zelda has been pretty popular too. The other franchises are...I dunno. Fire Emblem now has four, but Star Fox lost Wolf, because they hadn't had an installment since Assault? Who knows. I do miss him though. And Lucas, though I didn't use him much.

You start getting into the B- and C-list of characters. There are lead characters, then there are main supporting characters, then there are supporting supporting characters. The creators want to promote certain games and certain franchises, so what players want just makes a vague difference.

You gotta believe me when I scare you away, all that I wish for is that you would stay
FullMoon feeling blue from Surface Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
feeling blue
#68966: Feb 1st 2015 at 12:37:29 PM

The last Star Fox game was Command actually.

Keybreak (Long Runner)
#68967: Feb 1st 2015 at 12:41:00 PM

Ah yes, how could I forget, I loved that game...

A console installment then. Though it probably doesn't make too much of a difference because Kid Icarus got Uprising on 3DS.

You gotta believe me when I scare you away, all that I wish for is that you would stay
RavenKingSage MY NAME IS GUNDHAM TANAKA Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: The Skitty to my Wailord
MY NAME IS GUNDHAM TANAKA
#68968: Feb 1st 2015 at 12:45:22 PM

I used to be strongly against Krystal on the grounds that it would invite loads of furry porn

Now I'm just indifferent to her

What is a fandom? A miserable little pile of flame wars! 3DS FC: 0387-9377-7408 PSN ID: Raven King Sage
Fawriel Since: Jan, 2001
#68969: Feb 1st 2015 at 12:47:31 PM

Eyyy, good thing Nintendo's starting to create some new IPs, right? If there's going to be a new Smash Bros, we might very well see some Inklings and a STEAM dude there, and maybe some other new stuff, too.

And Ice Climbers. tongue

@Keybreak: Hah, I think back when I was speculating about Brawl in the Smash Forums, her voice might have been what sold me on Krystal, too. tongue Although as Palutena shows, that's not a factor that necessarily carries over...

edited 1st Feb '15 12:48:33 PM by Fawriel

Keybreak (Long Runner)
#68970: Feb 1st 2015 at 12:47:59 PM

Krystal has already long been subjected to the furry porn. And all of the female newcomers for Smash 4 have gotten their influx of human porn, so what's a little more?

I'm all for more female characters. Even girls can be Bros. tongue

You gotta believe me when I scare you away, all that I wish for is that you would stay
RavenKingSage MY NAME IS GUNDHAM TANAKA Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: The Skitty to my Wailord
MY NAME IS GUNDHAM TANAKA
#68971: Feb 1st 2015 at 12:48:23 PM

I would love to see Ice Climbers get a reboot in the same vein as Uprising. Popo and Nana would make a great duo.

What is a fandom? A miserable little pile of flame wars! 3DS FC: 0387-9377-7408 PSN ID: Raven King Sage
Beaver Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#68972: Feb 1st 2015 at 12:49:20 PM

We need Inkling grin

Is this a Jo Jo reference?
powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#68973: Feb 1st 2015 at 1:07:52 PM

I just thought of how Viridi thinks of the idea for Smash Bros:

"It doesn't work because this game universe, and this [[Super Mario Bros.. game universe]], and this game universe, and this [[Video Game/Metroid game universe]], and [[Video Game/Kirby this game universe]], and this game universe, and this game universe, and [[Franchise/Pokemon THAT game universe]] are completely different!

Pit: "Uh, Viridi, this is a crossover"

Viridi: "... I knew that..."

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#68974: Feb 1st 2015 at 1:09:50 PM

Adding characters that debut after the release of a certain Smash game would be, well, interesting... DLC trophies would be neat, while we are at it.

Going on the previous discussion, I usually go with default Wii Fit Trainer and Villager, but I use female Robin over the male one; may be because I like her character in Awakening better than the male one (just like I like male Morgan better than the female one), and also that allows this monster to exist...

FullMoon feeling blue from Surface Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
feeling blue
#68975: Feb 1st 2015 at 1:35:56 PM

I use the default for Robin and WFT. I alternate between male and female whenever I do play with Villager.


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