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Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#67626: Jan 10th 2015 at 3:44:16 PM

Nah, she's considered a Skill Gate Character because the lack of a tipper means that Marth outdamages once you get the spacing down.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#67627: Jan 10th 2015 at 3:56:44 PM

Interesting. I was seeing "official" tier lists placing Lucina higher as late as last month, but in looking them up I see those lists have mostly been replaced. Ah, the ever-changing metagame.

Though that's not quite what Skill Gate Character means (a better example of a Skill Gate Character is someone like Little Mac). Though we probably should have a trope for Marth and Lucina's situation, too, given how common the phenomena is in RP Gs like Pokemon.

edited 10th Jan '15 4:01:23 PM by KnownUnknown

Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#67628: Jan 10th 2015 at 4:02:29 PM

Well, she's a Skill Gate Character with regards to Marth, anyway.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
Numbuh1234 Since: Apr, 2014
#67629: Jan 10th 2015 at 4:03:47 PM

Conversely, Lucina is a Skill Gate character - for Marth specifically, Lucina you can have more solid hits with, but since her moveset was designed aroun spacing, then once you've gotten Marth's tipper down there's not much Lucina can do that Marth can't already do.

Meanwhile Little Mac is KO'd VERY easily, and I sincerely think everyone over-estimates his usability due to not taking that factor into account, after-all there's plenty of Little League Macs who Side+B over the ledge.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#67630: Jan 10th 2015 at 4:20:10 PM

Even after nerfing the distance...people still manage to do that.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#67631: Jan 10th 2015 at 4:24:19 PM

Been really liking Toon Link lately. Is he also considered lower tier?

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#67632: Jan 10th 2015 at 4:27:54 PM

He's low, but I don't remember the details about it.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
WackyPancake from My computer. Since: May, 2011
#67633: Jan 10th 2015 at 4:31:12 PM

Not really, from what I've heard. Much like in Brawl, it seems like he's shaping up to be the sole escapee of the Zelda tier. Although I haven't heard much about this game's Ganondorf, perhaps he's not low tier either.

Also, my headcanon in regards to Smash is that it takes place on a dimension governed by Master Hand, who is benevolent but loves fights. He himself chooses which characters he wants to invite, and if they accept he transports them there. And then they fight.

edited 10th Jan '15 4:31:40 PM by WackyPancake

"I like girls, but now, it's about justice."
powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#67634: Jan 10th 2015 at 4:43:07 PM

Blitz, Samus was born on a space colony that got attacked by Ridley when she was a child. She was found by a Chozo and was raised by them. Sorta like Superman's origin.

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!
ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#67635: Jan 10th 2015 at 4:45:10 PM

Only with more Space-Dragons and Bird People.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#67636: Jan 10th 2015 at 4:48:57 PM

Does that mean Samus had a dog that also survived the death of her colony and became a mercenary just like her? Cause that would be awesome.

Dragon_Ranger Since: Jan, 2010
#67637: Jan 10th 2015 at 4:56:23 PM

I generally prefer Link over Toon Link, no idea why.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#67638: Jan 10th 2015 at 5:04:36 PM

The heaviness of Link compared to Toon Link is a really minor factor how well they play...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Folt Warlock Necromancer from Hollow Bastion! >=D Since: Jun, 2010
Warlock Necromancer
#67639: Jan 10th 2015 at 5:06:35 PM

<Last I checked, Lucina was considered better than Marth - if only just. I don't play either of them extensively, so I dunno exactly why - I'd assume it has something to do with a smaller hurtbox and a lack of a tipper, though.>

It feels like I'm in July to October (or whichever month we got Smash Bros. and tested it) all over again.

The problem with Lucina is while she is generally 12.5% as powerful as an untippered Marth, a Marth who tips is generally 25% as powerful as that again which drastically decreases her kill power compared to Marth. Also, her hitstun modifier if she hits a shield is normal while Marth's is affected by whether he tips or not which ultimately allows Marth to act faster than her (and also allow him to be safer on his bread-and-butter strategies while Lucina runs the risk of getting punished; this also means Lucina is less aggressive than Marth is as she is at more risk of getting punished for a whiffed move).

Her slightly smaller hurtbox also gives her slightly less sword range than Marth, which is actually kind of noticeable if you're trying to hit someone with jab or f-smash while they're standing on one of the lower Battlefield platforms and you're standing below. However, it's mostly the two traits I mentioned above that make her an inferior character to him.

To add salt into the wound, her movement and attack speed are all the same as Marth which give her virtually no real advantages over him in a competitive scenario. It also makes Marth a nightmare for her to face if he's good: It's said that Marth mains hate fighting ditto matches against each other because the tipper scenarios and overall style means that they could be killed at virtually any moment. Now imagine having to fight someone who's basically a mirror of yourself but with all the tools needed to not only match you, but also completely outclass you at your own game... and he can kill you early and you can't. It's still winnable, and customs make it a bit more balanced, but Marth will always sit with the advantage because you can't match the power the tippers grant him.

Fantastic Supreme Überkaiser Emperor Folt of The Infinity and Beyond" ... "The First"!
Keybreak (Long Runner)
#67640: Jan 10th 2015 at 5:41:17 PM

I really prefer Toon Link over Realistic Link. Toon Link is so much lighter and faster and his attacks are so much more straightforward.

And my Realistic Link amiibo is usually on the other side in Team Battles. ;p

You gotta believe me when I scare you away, all that I wish for is that you would stay
Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#67641: Jan 10th 2015 at 7:04:06 PM

Now I really want to unlock all of Toon Link's customatizable attacks. Wish there was a quicker way to do it.

Keybreak (Long Runner)
#67642: Jan 10th 2015 at 7:06:07 PM

Quickest (and funnest) way I see to get custom moves is just Master Orders.

You gotta believe me when I scare you away, all that I wish for is that you would stay
powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#67643: Jan 10th 2015 at 9:12:15 PM

What's your item preference in the series?

  • 64 and Melee: All items on, there's not too many of them, and they aren't overpowered
  • Brawl,For 3DS, and For Wii U: Smash Balls only, there are WAY too many items, and most of them give really cheep KO's (Like the Master Ball). It bugs me when people want to play with items on in these 3 games as I view them as based entirely on luck. I prefer winning based on fighting skill (as in, due to a well-timed Smash attack or another type of attack that doesn't use items, or a Final Smash) over winning due to I got lucky with the Pokeball. Same goes for losing. I really hate being told that if I don't wanna put items on "then I shouldn't play with other people".

Sorry, just being forced to use items that aren't Smash Balls in post-Melee SSB titles is one of my Beserk Buttons.

Not related to SSB, but while I'm on the topic of items:

I am also beginning to hate items in Mario Kart, to the point where I almost want Nintendo to take them out for good. I'd feel happier losing because the other person is better at driving than me rather then they hit me with a shell. The only items I'd be opposed to disappearing for good are speed boosts, namely the mushroom. Throw the banana peel in as it's not cheap like the Blue Shell.

edited 10th Jan '15 9:13:06 PM by powerpuffbats

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!
Yomegami Since: Jan, 2011
#67644: Jan 10th 2015 at 9:18:29 PM

Generally speaking, my preference is no items whatsoever in any game, at least when I'm fighting actual humans. I'm a competitively-minded player and would prefer win or lose based on my skill rather than getting (un)lucky with an item.

That being said, when I do turn items on I like bumpers, especially when paired with x2 damage ratio and/or Super Sudden Death. Everyone's flying everywhere and it's just so hilariously insane.

edited 10th Jan '15 9:18:41 PM by Yomegami

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FullMoon feeling blue from Surface Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Yomegami Since: Jan, 2011
#67646: Jan 10th 2015 at 9:31:40 PM

...You actually saved that? Wow.

Icon by Civvi the Civilian!
BlitzTrain Since: Apr, 2014
#67647: Jan 10th 2015 at 9:32:52 PM

Depends on what I'm doing I guess. Generally I'm just fine with all the items, trying to pick and choose is too big of a hassle for me bother with and I think the potential change in strategy and added craziness makes for some fun lightharted shenanigans. If I'm trying to get better with a fighter or something I'll leave them off though, and I've been doing more of that lately.

That and I don't have anyone to do fun matches with besides For Fun mode anyway.

Xopher001 Since: Jul, 2012
#67648: Jan 10th 2015 at 9:34:12 PM

So I managed to order the pit and captain falcon amiibos on amazon. They're the only ones I could find that don't require overseas shipping

Get your shit together nintendo

edited 10th Jan '15 9:34:25 PM by Xopher001

powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#67649: Jan 10th 2015 at 9:39:56 PM

For some reason, the people I've been playing with irl don't like stages that move, like Mario Circuit. Or stages with a gimmick, like Gamer or Orbital Gate Assault. Stages that also put skills like jumping to the test. This one guy likes to suggest Pokemon Stadium 2, a stage that I don't care for much (I'd rather Nintendo bring Saffron City back)

Sorry if I sound aggressive, I've not been in a great mood today. The whole "being forced to use cheap items like the Golden Hammer" thing just set me off. Let's just say that I've been yelled at by my parents for buying school food when I'm not supposed to (It's a money issue), or trying to get my mom into buying me candy or Ice Cream for tonight's dessert (I'm sick of having cookies all the time). So, it's just the right combination of shit that set me off. Like I felt nothing had been going my way today. Hopefully tomorrow will be better.

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!
FullMoon feeling blue from Surface Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
feeling blue
#67650: Jan 10th 2015 at 9:43:19 PM

[up][up][up][up] It was funny, why not? tongue


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