What bothers me about the change (FYI, I don't main Bowser or anything) is that Ganondorf can still win matches with his Flame Choke dive, which I guess they felt it was fairer since Ganoncide requires a bit of setup to work, while Bowser can (usually, from what I've heard) just grab and leap through the air from the middle of your average Omega stage.
There are some other changes noted, such as Wario losing his wonky vectoring skills (I managed to pull one off on Full Moon yesterday; it was crazy), characters having damage changes, and Rosalina's Luma respawn timer increasing.
Some attacks were also tweaked as well, such as Greninja's Up-Smash (for some reason...), Link's F-smash (the first swing has less knockback, allowing you to combo into the second swing), and supposedly Zero Suit Samus's f-smash and down tilt. Still, I'm waiting for more concrete information to come before I believe some of the other changes.
[...]
Here's one I'm pretty sure of now: Auto-Reticle is super-spammable. Before I think you could use it once and then you'd have to wait a while for it to recharge. It still doesn't fire sometimes... but you can pretty much spam it.
She's had both of those traits you've mentioned before the patch. Auto-Reticle was always as fast as you could use the special; the slight slowness comes from the startup (which she still has).
It certainly did not, not that it mattered because no one really played online seriously, what with the amazing lag and lack of fighting options.
edited 18th Nov '14 10:02:14 AM by Tropesofknowledge
Souleye - PPPPPP - Potential for Anything 3DS FC: 2621-3105-8671The only other way Bowsercide can work is if the opponent has way more damage than Bowser does...otherwise you need to just get lucky with it in the air where both of you are away from the platform.
Its one of the many things "Spammers" do to get free wins in fights without any skill.
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The Wii couldn't do permanent patches or updates like that.
There were some opportunities for serious matches...when there was No lag at all and the "Tuant party" group would allow one of their members to fight that one guy who always shows up and wants to actually fight, also being really skilled...but also sometimes being skilled at Meta Knight.
edited 18th Nov '14 10:13:18 AM by randomness4
Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.I could've sworn that if you tried using one Auto-Reticle after another before, the second would just not fire anything. ... I don't know. I'll just shut up.
Ok, now that I've panicked over the bad, I noticed Greninja also got some buffs:
- Down Smash does more damage and knockback
- Shadow Sneak has less cooldown, especially in the air.
- The removal of downwards Shadow Sneak allows Greninja to return to the stage more easily by using Shadow Sneak, which combined with the above improves his recovery greatly.
I still have to see whether Substitute got any buffs, hopefully it did.
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Hm, now that you mention it, I think there was a period where Auto-Reticle wouldn't target a flinching opponent sometimes, which may have been a bug. I'll have to test it out some time later, but as of this patch that doesn't seem to be the case.
I went through a bit training with Greninja myself (I'm going through all the characters I'm interested in). Can you clarify what a couple of its nerfs seem to be, aside from the Shadow Sneak cancel? From what I've gathered:
- Up-Smash: Seems to now have a "sweet-spot", with the first part of the move having the most damage/launch compared to the down swing. I think before, both parts of its U-smash were equally powerful (or at least it seemed that way.
- Up-Air: Seems like it lost some of its "pull" effect, so there's less of a chance the final hit will hit/launch an opponent if Greninja is also descending with them (may vary be character weight; I was training with a Bowser COM).
edited 18th Nov '14 10:50:31 AM by Customer
It has been said that the Hydro Pump nerf might be useful against some characters since now the water doesn't push the opponent backwards, so opponents with horizontal recoveries are just going to be pushed back and fall, like Little Mac. It probably can still mess with recoveries pretty well, but now it's not possible to kill from the upper blastzone with it.
The Up-Smash nerf isn't that bad, since for your comboing needs there's still Up-Throw -> Up-Air.
Ooh! It's easier to recover with Greninja's Shadow Sneak? At last! A way for me to try and save myself! Because honestly, I almost always use Shadow Sneak when I want to use Hydro Pump.
Curse my tendency to flick left or right instead of down!!!
edited 18th Nov '14 11:18:31 AM by DevilPsyco
In the year 202X, all is devastation... Soon, any last shred of hope had by the saintliest optimist shall die and decay.Here's a list i found elsewhere
Stuff that looks untouched :
-Rolls (:/)
-Shields
-Sonic, Pit, Dark Pit, Jigglypuff, Charizard, Donkey Dong, Peach, Palutena (will edit later)
Bugs :
-Bomb canceling fixed
-Turnip canceling fixed
-Yoshi teleport fixed
-Wectoring fixed
-Greninja's Dair cancel fixed
-Hyper Rollout fixed
-Villager's rocket kill on the ledge fixed
Bowser :
-Bowsercide = Bowser dies first -Fsmash deals 2% less damages, meaning that Dedede/Ganondorf now have the most powerful Smash in the game.
-Down tilt's second hit is harder to connect
Rosalina :
-Luma timer increased to 13 seconds
-Nair deals less damage, less kb as well
-Neutral B's distance covered has been lowered (Which is, in fact, a buff, that shit was hard to land properly.)
-Luma comes back faster
Ness :
-Down Throw nerfed from 9% to 7% (;_;)
-It now does the correct amount of damages on G&W
Marth :
-Looks like his Dthrow/Fthrow give more followups. (fuck yes)
Lucina :
-Looks like her Dthrow/Fthrow g-oh wait I just said that two lines ago
Ike :
-Ike's Fair is significantly faster
-Looks like it can autocancel as well
-His Nair comes a bit quicker
-Jab looks fixed so all 3 attacks connect properly
-Ending lag on his Ftilt and Dtilt reduced
-Back air seems faster but I'm not sure at all
-Back air's damages increased by 1%
Toon Link:
-Jab damages increased by 1%
-His Utilt still does 5% despite the fact it does 6 on Wii U
Shulk :
All Shulk's moves but Backslash are buffed, most of them do more damages (Ranging from 1% to 3%)
Little Mac :
-Jab does less damages
-KO Punch got buffed, K Oes earlier (Somebody on Smashboards calced : It used to ko Jigs at 19% with vectoring, now it kills at 13%)
Falco :
-Blaster comes out quicker
-Our prayers got answered ! Dair is faster. (Not instant but still quite fast now.)
Sheik :
-Looks like needles now have some ending lag to em
-Down B has less knockback
-Uair has less knockback
-Fair deals less damages
Zero Suit Samus :
-Side B now connects properly
-Air Dodge's landing lag standardized to the usual 22 frames
-Neutral B has more ending lag
-Neutral B quick shot has less range
Greninja :
-More lag on Usmash
Olimar :
-Pikmin Toss does more damages
Pacman :
-Hydrant got sturdier to the point Pacman's back-air can't send it flying
Mr Game & Watch :
-Thunder no longer completely fills Oil Panic's bucket
King Dedede :
-Down Throw now sends upward
-Dededecide kills Dedede first now
Zelda :
-Up tilt does 1% more damage
-Looks like Din's Fire has less ending lag to it
Ganondorf :
-Looks like Nair has less lag
Megaman :
-Looks like Leaf Shield throws out faster
Meta Knight :
-Nair deals more damages
-Down B sends more horizontally, allowing for earlier K Os
-Fthrow damages fixed
-Bthrow has a tiny bit more knockback
-Rejoice ! Bair K Os about ~25% earlier ! MK has a ko move eveybody !
Kirby :
-Foot based attacks have a bigger hitbox, kind of like Yoshi's tail attacks.
-Kirbycide kills Kirby first
-Looks like he's faster
-Nair has more lag ?
-Uair faster
-Upsmash has a sourspot
Luigi :
-Fsmash deals more damages
Mario :
-Utilt deals less damages
Wii Fit Trainer :
-Looks like Nair deals less damages, need confirmation on that one
-Air Dodge's landing lag standardized to the usual 22 frames
-Uair deals more damages
Pikachu :
-More knockback on Fsmash, Side B and Down B
Wario :
-No longer has that troublesome release animation so some characters can't combo him as easily as before
Link :
-Fsmash's second hit connects more easily
Kirby-cide always killed Kirby first...since the opponent would be released right before Kirby died...and then die anyway.
Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.It's good to hear my main got a buff. His smash did seem a little weak. Though I don't really play competitively.
I haven't been playing too much Smash overall lately. I've been busy with real life lately, with an old friend of mine in town visiting from Munich. And on Friday, Pokémon Alpha Sapphire comes out, so I'll be busy with that, too.
As a Megamain, all of these sudden complaints about end-lag come across as funny more than anything else.
Nice to see Kirby getting some attention (most of it for the better), though I'm surprised that sourspot wasn't there to begin with; IIRC there was already something like that in Brawl.
edited 18th Nov '14 12:50:59 PM by Demonfly
"Tell them to shut up and have some faith in me." - dead flashback guyApparently it's possible for characters to survive Bowsercide because once Bowser is KO'd they can jump and Up-B back to the arena.
And considering the opponent can influence where Bowser will fly to during his flying press, this means that it's possible for the opponent to cause Bowser to kill himself for using the move on them.
I don't know whether to find this funny or sad.
Regrettably, I have been the victim of Bowsercide and the sense of failure you get from it is unrivaled by even Kirbycide. Watching that unfittingly fast, bulky beast that's so fat that he doesn't even flinch from Mac's standard jabs kill itself is most decidedly funny.
edited 18th Nov '14 1:08:13 PM by Tropesofknowledge
Souleye - PPPPPP - Potential for Anything 3DS FC: 2621-3105-8671

Sorry about that, Fullmoon. :<