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Fawriel Since: Jan, 2001
#64251: Nov 18th 2014 at 9:22:24 AM

Sorry about that, Fullmoon. :<

Customer Since: Sep, 2009
#64252: Nov 18th 2014 at 9:24:08 AM

[...]but Bowser losing his stock first on a Bowsercide is just dumb. Makes absolutely no sense..
My guess is that the devs didn't like seeing people spam the move for easy wins (that, or they just didn't intend for that special to be used that way). Obviously, it'd be better if other players who had trouble with it just learned the match up, but I suppose the devs just think that Bowser players (particularly the bad ones) should learn not to rely on that tactic to win.

What bothers me about the change (FYI, I don't main Bowser or anything) is that Ganondorf can still win matches with his Flame Choke dive, which I guess they felt it was fairer since Ganoncide requires a bit of setup to work, while Bowser can (usually, from what I've heard) just grab and leap through the air from the middle of your average Omega stage.

There are some other changes noted, such as Wario losing his wonky vectoring skills (I managed to pull one off on Full Moon yesterday; it was crazy), characters having damage changes, and Rosalina's Luma respawn timer increasing.

Some attacks were also tweaked as well, such as Greninja's Up-Smash (for some reason...), Link's F-smash (the first swing has less knockback, allowing you to combo into the second swing), and supposedly Zero Suit Samus's f-smash and down tilt. Still, I'm waiting for more concrete information to come before I believe some of the other changes.

I noticed that you can hit an enemy once with the first hit of her jab and, if you time it right, you can grab them immediately afterwards since the first hit sends them ever so slightly towards her. You have to really get the timing down or else the grab button will continue the jab combo. It still works at relatively high percent. Don't know how easily escapable it is... A CPU level 9 set to Run doesn't seem to be able to escape. And her down-throw chains easily into aerials...

[...]

Here's one I'm pretty sure of now: Auto-Reticle is super-spammable. Before I think you could use it once and then you'd have to wait a while for it to recharge. It still doesn't fire sometimes... but you can pretty much spam it.

She's had both of those traits you've mentioned before the patch. Auto-Reticle was always as fast as you could use the special; the slight slowness comes from the startup (which she still has).

Dragon_Ranger Since: Jan, 2010
#64253: Nov 18th 2014 at 9:50:00 AM

I don't use Yoshi much, but I'm sad they fixed the glitches with his up-B moves.

Keybreak (Long Runner)
#64254: Nov 18th 2014 at 9:53:18 AM

I do like how they can update this game after it's been released. I don't remember if that ever happened with Brawl...

edited 18th Nov '14 9:55:27 AM by Keybreak

You gotta believe me when I scare you away, all that I wish for is that you would stay
Tropesofknowledge The Man with the Golden Gun from Your local Cinnabon Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I wanna know about these strangers like me
The Man with the Golden Gun
#64255: Nov 18th 2014 at 10:01:56 AM

It certainly did not, not that it mattered because no one really played online seriously, what with the amazing lag and lack of fighting options.

edited 18th Nov '14 10:02:14 AM by Tropesofknowledge

Souleye - PPPPPP - Potential for Anything 3DS FC: 2621-3105-8671
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#64256: Nov 18th 2014 at 10:08:40 AM

The only other way Bowsercide can work is if the opponent has way more damage than Bowser does...otherwise you need to just get lucky with it in the air where both of you are away from the platform.

Its one of the many things "Spammers" do to get free wins in fights without any skill.

[up][up]The Wii couldn't do permanent patches or updates like that.

[up]There were some opportunities for serious matches...when there was No lag at all and the "Tuant party" group would allow one of their members to fight that one guy who always shows up and wants to actually fight, also being really skilled...but also sometimes being skilled at Meta Knight.

edited 18th Nov '14 10:13:18 AM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Fawriel Since: Jan, 2001
#64257: Nov 18th 2014 at 10:10:49 AM

She's had both of those traits you've mentioned before the patch. Auto-Reticle was always as fast as you could use the special; the slight slowness comes from the startup (which she still has).
... what on earth

I could've sworn that if you tried using one Auto-Reticle after another before, the second would just not fire anything. ... I don't know. I'll just shut up.

FullMoon feeling blue from Surface Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
feeling blue
#64258: Nov 18th 2014 at 10:40:58 AM

Ok, now that I've panicked over the bad, I noticed Greninja also got some buffs:

  • Down Smash does more damage and knockback
  • Shadow Sneak has less cooldown, especially in the air.
  • The removal of downwards Shadow Sneak allows Greninja to return to the stage more easily by using Shadow Sneak, which combined with the above improves his recovery greatly.

I still have to see whether Substitute got any buffs, hopefully it did.

Customer Since: Sep, 2009
#64259: Nov 18th 2014 at 10:49:48 AM

[up][up]Hm, now that you mention it, I think there was a period where Auto-Reticle wouldn't target a flinching opponent sometimes, which may have been a bug. I'll have to test it out some time later, but as of this patch that doesn't seem to be the case.

[up]I went through a bit training with Greninja myself (I'm going through all the characters I'm interested in). Can you clarify what a couple of its nerfs seem to be, aside from the Shadow Sneak cancel? From what I've gathered:

  • Up-Smash: Seems to now have a "sweet-spot", with the first part of the move having the most damage/launch compared to the down swing. I think before, both parts of its U-smash were equally powerful (or at least it seemed that way.

  • Up-Air: Seems like it lost some of its "pull" effect, so there's less of a chance the final hit will hit/launch an opponent if Greninja is also descending with them (may vary be character weight; I was training with a Bowser COM).

edited 18th Nov '14 10:50:31 AM by Customer

FullMoon feeling blue from Surface Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
feeling blue
#64260: Nov 18th 2014 at 10:55:40 AM

[up] His Up Smash has a recovery period now where you need to wait for Greninja to pull the swords away, it's very noticeable if you try to hit the opponent with his up-aerial after sending them upwards with it.

Also, Hydro Pump's windbox got nerfed too.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#64261: Nov 18th 2014 at 10:57:49 AM

Bowsercide nerf is disappointing to me. I love winning a match with Bowsercide when we're both at 1 remaining stock.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Customer Since: Sep, 2009
#64262: Nov 18th 2014 at 11:01:26 AM

[up][up]Ew, I see what you mean. Greninja feels slower now that I notice it. The Hydro Pump nerf seems... odd to me, particularly since it's kind of tricky to pull off. wild mass guessMy guess is that it may have had the same problems as Wario's vectoring, so they both ended up being fixed with this update.

FullMoon feeling blue from Surface Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
feeling blue
#64263: Nov 18th 2014 at 11:10:12 AM

It has been said that the Hydro Pump nerf might be useful against some characters since now the water doesn't push the opponent backwards, so opponents with horizontal recoveries are just going to be pushed back and fall, like Little Mac. It probably can still mess with recoveries pretty well, but now it's not possible to kill from the upper blastzone with it.

The Up-Smash nerf isn't that bad, since for your comboing needs there's still Up-Throw -> Up-Air.

Numbuh1234 Since: Apr, 2014
#64264: Nov 18th 2014 at 11:12:16 AM

Anyone know the fastest way to collect Smash Run Powers? It's literally the only Challenge I have left before I complete the Challenge Board.

Also, has Sonic/Mr. Game & Watch/Toon Link/Captain Falcon/ Jigglypuff gotten any changes?

FullMoon feeling blue from Surface Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
feeling blue
#64265: Nov 18th 2014 at 11:15:20 AM

I heard that Sonic had been buffed, no idea about the others.

DevilPsyco from The Underworld (pretty deep down in the ground) Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: In another castle
#64266: Nov 18th 2014 at 11:18:23 AM

Ooh! It's easier to recover with Greninja's Shadow Sneak? At last! A way for me to try and save myself! Because honestly, I almost always use Shadow Sneak when I want to use Hydro Pump.

Curse my tendency to flick left or right instead of down!!!

edited 18th Nov '14 11:18:31 AM by DevilPsyco

In the year 202X, all is devastation... Soon, any last shred of hope had by the saintliest optimist shall die and decay.
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#64267: Nov 18th 2014 at 11:30:56 AM

Here's a list i found elsewhere

Stuff that looks untouched :

-Rolls (:/)

-Shields

-Sonic, Pit, Dark Pit, Jigglypuff, Charizard, Donkey Dong, Peach, Palutena (will edit later)

Bugs :

-Bomb canceling fixed

-Turnip canceling fixed

-Yoshi teleport fixed

-Wectoring fixed

-Greninja's Dair cancel fixed

-Hyper Rollout fixed

-Villager's rocket kill on the ledge fixed

Bowser :

-Bowsercide = Bowser dies first -Fsmash deals 2% less damages, meaning that Dedede/Ganondorf now have the most powerful Smash in the game.

-Down tilt's second hit is harder to connect

Rosalina :

-Luma timer increased to 13 seconds

-Nair deals less damage, less kb as well

-Neutral B's distance covered has been lowered (Which is, in fact, a buff, that shit was hard to land properly.)

-Luma comes back faster

Ness :

-Down Throw nerfed from 9% to 7% (;_;)

-It now does the correct amount of damages on G&W

Marth :

-Looks like his Dthrow/Fthrow give more followups. (fuck yes)

Lucina :

-Looks like her Dthrow/Fthrow g-oh wait I just said that two lines ago

Ike :

-Ike's Fair is significantly faster

-Looks like it can autocancel as well

-His Nair comes a bit quicker

-Jab looks fixed so all 3 attacks connect properly

-Ending lag on his Ftilt and Dtilt reduced

-Back air seems faster but I'm not sure at all

-Back air's damages increased by 1%

Toon Link:

-Jab damages increased by 1%

-His Utilt still does 5% despite the fact it does 6 on Wii U

Shulk :

All Shulk's moves but Backslash are buffed, most of them do more damages (Ranging from 1% to 3%)

Little Mac :

-Jab does less damages

-KO Punch got buffed, K Oes earlier (Somebody on Smashboards calced : It used to ko Jigs at 19% with vectoring, now it kills at 13%)

Falco :

-Blaster comes out quicker

-Our prayers got answered ! Dair is faster. (Not instant but still quite fast now.)

Sheik :

-Looks like needles now have some ending lag to em

-Down B has less knockback

-Uair has less knockback

-Fair deals less damages

Zero Suit Samus :

-Side B now connects properly

-Air Dodge's landing lag standardized to the usual 22 frames

-Neutral B has more ending lag

-Neutral B quick shot has less range

Greninja :

-More lag on Usmash

Olimar :

-Pikmin Toss does more damages

Pacman :

-Hydrant got sturdier to the point Pacman's back-air can't send it flying

Mr Game & Watch :

-Thunder no longer completely fills Oil Panic's bucket

King Dedede :

-Down Throw now sends upward

-Dededecide kills Dedede first now

Zelda :

-Up tilt does 1% more damage

-Looks like Din's Fire has less ending lag to it

Ganondorf :

-Looks like Nair has less lag

Megaman :

-Looks like Leaf Shield throws out faster

Meta Knight :

-Nair deals more damages

-Down B sends more horizontally, allowing for earlier K Os

-Fthrow damages fixed

-Bthrow has a tiny bit more knockback

-Rejoice ! Bair K Os about ~25% earlier ! MK has a ko move eveybody !

Kirby :

-Foot based attacks have a bigger hitbox, kind of like Yoshi's tail attacks.

-Kirbycide kills Kirby first

-Looks like he's faster

-Nair has more lag ?

-Uair faster

-Upsmash has a sourspot

Luigi :

-Fsmash deals more damages

Mario :

-Utilt deals less damages

Wii Fit Trainer :

-Looks like Nair deals less damages, need confirmation on that one

-Air Dodge's landing lag standardized to the usual 22 frames

-Uair deals more damages

Pikachu :

-More knockback on Fsmash, Side B and Down B

Wario :

-No longer has that troublesome release animation so some characters can't combo him as easily as before

Link :

-Fsmash's second hit connects more easily

Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#64269: Nov 18th 2014 at 11:36:55 AM

He's right though. I've done that alot, though i never get it to work on anything other than walk-off stages.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#64270: Nov 18th 2014 at 12:38:09 PM

Kirby-cide always killed Kirby first...since the opponent would be released right before Kirby died...and then die anyway.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Lightblade Since: Jan, 2001
#64271: Nov 18th 2014 at 12:39:18 PM

Pikachu : -More knockback on Fsmash, Side B and Down B

It's good to hear my main got a buff. His smash did seem a little weak. Though I don't really play competitively.

I haven't been playing too much Smash overall lately. I've been busy with real life lately, with an old friend of mine in town visiting from Munich. And on Friday, Pokémon Alpha Sapphire comes out, so I'll be busy with that, too.

FullMoon feeling blue from Surface Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
feeling blue
#64272: Nov 18th 2014 at 12:42:15 PM

Sounds like the ninjas are the ones who suffered the most in this patch. Poor Sheik and Greninja.

Demonfly birdie fairy Since: Jul, 2012
birdie fairy
#64273: Nov 18th 2014 at 12:49:25 PM

As a Megamain, all of these sudden complaints about end-lag come across as funny more than anything else. tongue

Nice to see Kirby getting some attention (most of it for the better), though I'm surprised that sourspot wasn't there to begin with; IIRC there was already something like that in Brawl.

edited 18th Nov '14 12:50:59 PM by Demonfly

"Tell them to shut up and have some faith in me." - dead flashback guy
FullMoon feeling blue from Surface Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
feeling blue
#64274: Nov 18th 2014 at 12:52:22 PM

Apparently it's possible for characters to survive Bowsercide because once Bowser is KO'd they can jump and Up-B back to the arena.

And considering the opponent can influence where Bowser will fly to during his flying press, this means that it's possible for the opponent to cause Bowser to kill himself for using the move on them.

I don't know whether to find this funny or sad.

Tropesofknowledge The Man with the Golden Gun from Your local Cinnabon Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I wanna know about these strangers like me
The Man with the Golden Gun
#64275: Nov 18th 2014 at 12:57:54 PM

Regrettably, I have been the victim of Bowsercide and the sense of failure you get from it is unrivaled by even Kirbycide. Watching that unfittingly fast, bulky beast that's so fat that he doesn't even flinch from Mac's standard jabs kill itself is most decidedly funny.

edited 18th Nov '14 1:08:13 PM by Tropesofknowledge

Souleye - PPPPPP - Potential for Anything 3DS FC: 2621-3105-8671

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