TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Super Smash Bros.

Go To

Pulse The Fool from Yadayadaville Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Fool
#64151: Nov 17th 2014 at 8:02:58 AM

If nothing else, I'd be rather shocked if the Ice Climbers weren't added by the time the New 3DS and its extra processing power came out.

Wolf and Lucas strike me as being reasonable expectations, too.

I sure said that!
Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#64152: Nov 17th 2014 at 8:02:58 AM

[up][up]I can't imagine them not going for more DLC considering all of the potential profit involved. Though I expect it'll be a while after Mewtwo before we get new characters.

Also, it seems people may have been a bit pre-mature on the Charizard nerfs. Apparently Flare Blitz just never had super armor all the way through, though the duration of the armor may have been nerfed slightly.

[up]I'm not sure if Sakurai would want a piece of DLC that's only available for one version of handheld console.

edited 17th Nov '14 8:04:22 AM by Mio

BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#64153: Nov 17th 2014 at 8:09:26 AM

Exactly. With all the focus Sakurai had on making sure both rosters were the same, why make a new one that has exclusives? The New 3DS is not going to be very popular at first, and making the Ice Climbers New 3DS characters without putting them in the Regular 3DS would be a PR disaster.

Not to mention problems with multiplayer/online.

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
Pulse The Fool from Yadayadaville Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Fool
#64154: Nov 17th 2014 at 8:12:48 AM

So, what you're saying is that both versions of the game should be marred by possible compatibility issues with one aspect? At the very least, when has that stopped, say, GameFreak?

I really don't understand what would be so controversial about including the Ice Climbers as New 3DS exclusives for entirely practical reasons. By the logic I've seen, Nintendo also shouldn't have released the 3DS at all so as to not antagonize DS owners.

edited 17th Nov '14 8:20:19 AM by Pulse

I sure said that!
Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#64155: Nov 17th 2014 at 8:19:20 AM

[up]It probably wouldn't be that controversial since the New 3DS is already slated to get exclusive software. The main hurdle probably wouldn't be the controversy though, it would be whatever Sakurai's vision for how the versions of the game should develop. And I think as [up][up] does that he may just feel that making a character exclusive to a different version of the same console (though not really the same), is not something he wants to do.

Beaver Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#64156: Nov 17th 2014 at 8:20:45 AM

[up]

Based on what I've seen, the internet would riot if IC were New 3ds only.

edited 17th Nov '14 8:53:27 AM by Beaver

Is this a Jo Jo reference?
BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#64157: Nov 17th 2014 at 8:31:42 AM

[up][up][up]Not "possible". "Defininite". And that "one aspect" is the only reason most people play.

Imagine if a N3DS user tried to play against a regular 3DS user and was an IC main, online or local. Oh wait, they couldn't. Nobody wins.

edited 17th Nov '14 8:34:26 AM by BaffleBlend

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
Fawriel Since: Jan, 2001
#64158: Nov 17th 2014 at 8:39:23 AM

I wonder how they'll change "#2 on the tiers, even above Rosalina" Yoshi.

And "worse than Ganondorf" Palutena. I hope they speed up her tilts.

I do wonder about that. I still haven't heard anything clear about why Yoshi is so good. He just seems... like a character who works very well. No single part of him seems the least bit overpowered. So just... subtract 1% from the damage of all of his moves? Make him a little lighter? I don't know. I wish they'd just make everyone as good as Yoshi instead of the opposite. I do think I understand why they prefer nerfing over buffing in this case because a nerf seems like the results would be more predictable. Adding power to a character could have all sorts of effects on how they play, but looking at Rosalina and giving her SOME nerfs here and there is certainly not going to hurt and if it's not much it's at least a step in the right direction.

And Palutena is just... she'd need some major help to be saved because her moveset is... pretty much inherently terrible. She's a slow character with weak moves that leave her open. How do you fix that. She'd need a major power boost on a lot of moves to make them worth it if you do manage to hit, and I don't see why she's so light, either, and also make her custom specials available under all circumstances please, thanks.

edited 17th Nov '14 8:41:41 AM by Fawriel

Pulse The Fool from Yadayadaville Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Fool
#64159: Nov 17th 2014 at 8:43:46 AM

Imagine if a N3DS user tried to play against a regular 3DS user and was an IC main, online or local. Oh wait, they couldn't. Nobody wins.
And man, all those people with Gen V Pokemon games that can't directly battle with XY! How evil and unfair! Why didn't they make those games for the same hardware instead of using the newer, stronger system?

[up]Palutena's big weakness is having Ganon-like windups for middling-at-best hits on the ground, more for her tilts than her Smashes, which are actually pretty handy. She has a slightly easier time with attacking in the air but suffers from relatively poor aerial mobility, so she's... Weird.

edited 17th Nov '14 8:45:59 AM by Pulse

I sure said that!
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#64160: Nov 17th 2014 at 8:45:32 AM

I can't see them making a character N 3 DS-exclusive on a 3DS game, personally. Maybe they'll just make the 3DS Ice Climbers really low-res to compensate for the hardware strain, or something.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Sterok Since: Apr, 2012
#64161: Nov 17th 2014 at 8:47:16 AM

If they're not willing to separate the Wii U/3DS rosters to save Ice Climbers, there's no way they're going to split the 3DS userbase to save them. Terrible idea to piss off people who don't have a New 3DS, and as much as I want the IC back I can't see that ending well. Now it is possible that they find a way to get them working on the regular 3DS, but I currently find that unlikely.

As for more DLC, there is a 100% chance of that happening. I said that before we learned about Mewtwo, and I will continue to say it. Too much profit and fan demand to ignore. I imagine they'll be coming in packs. So say Mewtwo/Lucas/Dixie in pack 1. Then Wolf/Chorus Kids/Issac in pack 2 for example. And so on. They'll probably come with stages as well.

Customer Since: Sep, 2009
#64162: Nov 17th 2014 at 8:52:36 AM

Palutena's big weakness is having Ganon-like windups for middling-at-best hits on the ground, more for her tilts than her Smashes, which are actually pretty handy. She has a slightly easier time with attacking in the air but suffers from relatively poor aerial mobility, so she's... Weird.
Pretty much. She seems like she was given heavy-type character attacks (her smashes hit pretty damn hard), but also has long animations on many of her other attacks to compensate, but it doesn't really work all that well in execution (at least if you try to play her like most other characters). Her aerials are decent to pretty good too. I kind of feel like she needs to be a bit heavier, but her recovery is also pretty good.

Full Moon's been playing her recently, so maybe he could give more insight.

edited 17th Nov '14 8:59:20 AM by Customer

Pulse The Fool from Yadayadaville Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Fool
#64163: Nov 17th 2014 at 8:53:43 AM

[up][up]Whereas, from my perspective, the New 3DS seems to be aimed squarely at a more hardcore market, which would include, say, people who care about having the Ice Climbers back. There's a very easy and obvious solution to the Ice Climber's CPU eating right there, so why not take it? The only reasons I've heard have been ideological rather than practical.

[up]Jump Glide is very nice on her, as an aside, since it lets her move fairly quickly through the air and you can get one attack off before it ends and you go helpless.

edited 17th Nov '14 8:55:51 AM by Pulse

I sure said that!
Beaver Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#64164: Nov 17th 2014 at 9:02:22 AM

[up]

How would online work though?

Also, I'm sure the internet would accuse Nintendo of "milking" the game

Is this a Jo Jo reference?
FullMoon feeling blue from Surface Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
feeling blue
#64165: Nov 17th 2014 at 9:07:58 AM

[up][up][up] I just started playing with her, I can't exactly give much insight. I'm not a master of Smash tongue

I can talk more about her once I'm back home though.

Elbruno Mummy Woomy from Chile: Not As Dry As Space! Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Mummy Woomy
#64166: Nov 17th 2014 at 9:08:05 AM

[up][up][up]Thing is, when working on anything that involves a massive consumer base, you gotta take into consideration both the practical and the ideological.

Sure, for those who know that the IC have problems in the original 3DS's hardware, having them exclusive for the New 3DS is perfectly reasonable. But for the far bigger majority, it's Nintendo separating the player base for not buying the stronger hardware. A textbook PR dissaster that would hurt the Big N's reputation; and as Ubisoft might tell you, reputation is an important thing in this industry, and in any industry in general.

edited 17th Nov '14 9:08:38 AM by Elbruno

"Yeah, it's a shame. Here we are in an underground cave with all these lasers, and instead of having a rave we're using it for evil."
Customer Since: Sep, 2009
#64167: Nov 17th 2014 at 9:14:57 AM

[up][up]You have a knack for picking up character nuances relatively quickly though (I think I've said this to you before), which is why I mentioned you. However, I admit that I thought you had been using her longer than I thought.

Also, Fawriel, here's another example of Ness. I should mention that most Ness players seem to use a simple (but effective) setup involving PK Fire and his throws & aerials.

Fawriel Since: Jan, 2001
#64168: Nov 17th 2014 at 9:18:44 AM

Anyone accusing Nintendo of milking this cash cow will have to answer to twice as many people shushing them because they want what the DLC brings them.

@Palutena: Her smashes don't even seem that strong though? ._. They feel like... upper medium strength to me?

[up] Aww geez, PK Fire is so weird, though... I can't see myself relying on that at all...

edited 17th Nov '14 9:19:24 AM by Fawriel

Pulse The Fool from Yadayadaville Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Fool
#64169: Nov 17th 2014 at 9:28:07 AM

@Palutena: Her smashes don't even seem that strong though? ._. They feel like... upper medium strength to me?
The have a fair bit of range to them, too- They're strong considering how much reach they have. They're a little slow but not nearly as lopsided and awkward as her tilts.

[up]PK Fire and its near-copy Flame Pillar are invaluable tools, Faw! Remember how great Gunner is!

edited 17th Nov '14 9:29:02 AM by Pulse

I sure said that!
TheHeroHartmut Too hot to hoot from Probably not right behind you (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Singularity
Too hot to hoot
#64170: Nov 17th 2014 at 9:46:17 AM

@Faw: I don't consider myself a particularly good Ness player at all (much as I want to be, as a former Lucas main), but I always rely on PK Fire -> throw when I do play as him. It's too useful not to take advantage of.

Switch FC code: SW-4420-1809-1805
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#64171: Nov 17th 2014 at 10:07:58 AM

Pk fire is probably Ness' best move, obviously its very likely to notice with how many people keep on spamming [up] that strategy.

It makes Ness really annoying to fight.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Fawriel Since: Jan, 2001
#64172: Nov 17th 2014 at 10:09:44 AM

Flame Pillar is an entirely different beast, Pulse! It's super-easy to just throw forward during your jump, but PK Fire is so... ... so... ... actually, did they change something about its trajectory or the way it alters (or doesn't alter?) Ness' momentum in the air in this game? I remember it being impossible in Melee and Brawl, but trying it out again in Training Mode... I guess it seems more manageable than I thought...?

... I also want to argue that the range on Palutena's smashes would only be worth the slowness if you exchanged the wind-boxes for hurt-boxes, but I'm not exactly an expert with her, either, so I'll just stop talking about things I know nothing about~

edited 17th Nov '14 10:12:54 AM by Fawriel

Pulse The Fool from Yadayadaville Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Fool
#64173: Nov 17th 2014 at 10:13:12 AM

Flame Pillar is an entirely different beast, Pulse! It's super-easy to just throw forward during your jump, but PK Fire is so... ... so... ... actually, did they change something about its trajectory or the way it alters (or doesn't alter?) Ness' momentum in the air in this game? I remember it being impossible in Melee and Brawl, but...
I will grant there's some differences, but hey! They both fire at a 45 degree angle in the air and they both are very bread-and-butter for their characters, albeit for entirely different reasons.

I sure said that!
FullMoon feeling blue from Surface Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
feeling blue
#64174: Nov 17th 2014 at 10:48:17 AM

So, about Palutena... So far I've found her to be a lot better than I expected. Her tilts are really slow and for some reason only her up-tilt is multi-hit when you'd expect all of them to be. However her aerials are all pretty decent, b-air is good for killing, up-air does good damage and also can kill at surprisingly lower percentages, d-air is kinda awkward but it can meteor and comes out fast. Nair is kinda slow but I think it can have its uses.

Her Smashes are slow, except her up-smash. But they have a lot of range to them and her f-smash even has a windbox to it and they do good damage when they hit. Up-Smash is also great for preventing opponents from recovering if they try to go over you.

I think overall Palutena is more of a character that needs to be played carefully, getting too greedy with smashes is only going to get you pummeled, so you gotta find opening to attack. Her grabs are all pretty good too with some nice knockback to them and I think her d-throw can be chained into her aerials. She's more of a technical character really, she takes some time to get used to but if you can see predict your opponent right she can be pretty devastating.

Auto-reticle is good for spacing and poking the opponent while they're going after you, kinda similar to Greninja's shurikens which often make the opponent stop while they're trying to do a dash attack and make them just do a f-tilt against the air; or make them shield and be left open for a grab. A counter move is always good to have unless you're Greninja and the reflector is kinda interesting in that it stays in place for a little while, it's good for stopping people from edgeguarding you with projectiles.

Overall I think Palutena is just a Difficult, but Awesome kind of character, she can be a real pest when you're going against a skilled one.

Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#64175: Nov 17th 2014 at 10:57:02 AM

The one thing that's interesting about Palutena is that she's as good as her custom setup. Because each custom is unique in general, she has more than one variant and playstyle. Her default moveset is pretty bad, though. I still find her fun to play as, but it's going to take work or more patches to buff her up outside of relying on her custom moves. Especially for tourneys that don't allow those.

Related, Mii Fighters could follow a "default moveset"(note that the Fighting Mii Team also have no specials) by just using the first move among each category for those kinds of tourneys. Of course any equipment would be removed, but I have a feeling those actually will likely be banned in most tourneys, as custom moves are far less of an issue at times. Related, I could see certain custom moves being banned with enough playtesting. Not many, though. The fact that people can switch to a special move that's not nearly as bad is also a good thing, as it means that overpowered specials can be taken out and the game can evolve while not banning a character in itself. Don't get me wrong, it's still possible an entire character could get banned like in Brawl(and technically Master Hand in Melee, but he was a hard to work with glitch that froze your game anyway), but I think there's a far less chance of it happening. Likewise, patches can solve that too.

Shadow?

Total posts: 148,710
Top