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Tarsen Since: Dec, 2009
#61326: Oct 16th 2014 at 9:14:44 AM

...ridiculed huh.

i get the impression you hang out with "Stop Having Fun" Guys

Customer Since: Sep, 2009
#61327: Oct 16th 2014 at 9:16:11 AM

Ridiculed by whom? Even if 4 doesn't generate the type of competitiveness that Melee/Project M/etc. players want, it'd still have its own meta.

I thought you were talking about being made fun of for using Yoshi or something, but it seems like you've been referring to something else.

edited 16th Oct '14 9:17:25 AM by Customer

BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#61328: Oct 16th 2014 at 9:17:23 AM

[up][up]It's really a lose-lose no matter who I hang out with. But when it comes to defensive metas, at least Jerkass Has a Point on that side. I don't have fun being or going against a defensive player at all. It's a big part of why I ditched the extremely stall-y Pokémon competitive scene.

[up]I was worried about that, too. I'm extremely self-conscious about a lot of things.

edited 16th Oct '14 9:24:50 AM by BaffleBlend

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
FullMoon feeling blue from Surface Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
feeling blue
#61329: Oct 16th 2014 at 9:24:39 AM

Really, I couldn't care less about what people think of me for playing a game I enjoy. It's not their business and if they start bothering me I'll just ignore them until they tire themselves out.

If you let yourself be intimidated by what haters say, you're never going to get to enjoy anything.

BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#61330: Oct 16th 2014 at 9:25:50 AM

[up]And that, in a nutshell, is why I've had crippling depression as long as I can remember.

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#61331: Oct 16th 2014 at 9:33:24 AM

[up] Can you explain that in a little more detail? Seeing as how I suffer from chronic depression as well, I know that depression follows no logic but its own so I can't see where you're coming from.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#61332: Oct 16th 2014 at 9:47:13 AM

[up]I am incapable of enjoying anything during one of my sequences because I'm extremely open to attack. Even the slightest offside comment about something I like feels like I've been shot. I want to avoid that feeling, so I stop liking things.

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
Folt Warlock Necromancer from Hollow Bastion! >=D Since: Jun, 2010
Warlock Necromancer
#61333: Oct 16th 2014 at 9:48:58 AM

Hm... This might sound like an oxymoron, but Lucina seems to want to play more defensively than Marth does.

Fantastic Supreme Überkaiser Emperor Folt of The Infinity and Beyond" ... "The First"!
BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#61334: Oct 16th 2014 at 9:50:43 AM

[up]That's because close range is more risky. The benefit to Lucina is that she can attack at that range if she needs to. Marth has a bit more of an air of confidence about him at his prime range, if that makes sense?

edited 16th Oct '14 9:53:00 AM by BaffleBlend

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#61335: Oct 16th 2014 at 9:51:28 AM

[up][up][up] Welp. The only advice I have for you is an aversion of There Are No Therapists.

[up][up] What?

[up] How can Lucy attack from a distance when Marth can't if they have the exact same moveset?

edited 16th Oct '14 9:52:06 AM by Zelenal

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#61336: Oct 16th 2014 at 9:54:13 AM

[up]I meant that she can attack at close range if she needs to, not a distance.

And I've tried that. I've tried and am trying everything I can. This is a very, very deep-rooted problem with me.

edited 16th Oct '14 9:54:45 AM by BaffleBlend

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
Fawriel Since: Jan, 2001
#61337: Oct 16th 2014 at 10:32:43 AM

... I wasn't talking exclusively about the metagame, you know. Even just at my level, as soon as I'm playing against someone who can dodge moderately well, I feel like I'm left with no options. I can poke them repeatedly, but what good does that do me? And if they've got good projectiles, I'm just taking damage myself in the meantime, and as soon as I try to do something other than poke, I'm left wide open.

Watching those high-level matches just confirmed what I already suspected. In Yoshi vs. Rosaluma, sure, the Rosa player was very good, but the Yoshi just didn't have a chance. He had to overcome adversity just to get a single hit in and was completely at her mercy, forced to approach and unable to hit because there's only a handful of options he has to do so and they're all shut down by shielding or dodging and punishing in return. It's just frustrating, and I don't see what kind of development could lead to a situation in which it stops ceasing to be frustrating.

edited 16th Oct '14 10:34:40 AM by Fawriel

Nap1100 Since: Mar, 2012
#61338: Oct 16th 2014 at 10:43:38 AM

I get the feeling that all this could be solved if the game had actual blockstun. Rolling is punishable enough, it's just doing things out of shield so easily makes it turn into too much of a block-heavy game.

edited 16th Oct '14 10:50:49 AM by Nap1100

RavenKingSage MY NAME IS GUNDHAM TANAKA Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: The Skitty to my Wailord
MY NAME IS GUNDHAM TANAKA
#61339: Oct 16th 2014 at 10:49:05 AM

Can we at least all agree that this is a huge step up from Brawl?

What is a fandom? A miserable little pile of flame wars! 3DS FC: 0387-9377-7408 PSN ID: Raven King Sage
Folt Warlock Necromancer from Hollow Bastion! >=D Since: Jun, 2010
Warlock Necromancer
#61340: Oct 16th 2014 at 10:50:14 AM

That's because close range is more risky. The benefit to Lucina is that she can attack at that range if she needs to. Marth has a bit more of an air of confidence about him at his prime range, if that makes sense?

She can, yes. I guess the question will be if she wants to.

It is true that Lucina can attack closer than Marth can, but the moveset was pretty much designed with spacing your attacks in mind. As it is, her consistent damage feels more like a crutch because she got a moveset designed for proper spacing. Said proper spacing also matters when on the offense since that means more of your attacks hit and your opponent doesn't get to hit much back.

Marth has the same moveset, but you can tell the moveset was designed with Marth in mind because Marth rewards proper spacing with the tipper which lets him deal more damage and launch opponents further, and even at different angles. A "whiff" will only happen if it's convenient or if you, well, "whiff", but since Marth's (and Lucina's) moveset was designed for proper spacing, a high-level Marth (and Lucina) player will be able to properly space their attacks most of the time, meaning that the points where you truly "whiff" your attacks will be fewer and further between as you get better, and KOs (due to tippering) will happen earlier.

Thus, Marth will eventually get the kills and perform better than Lucina will, simply because Lucina doesn't reward people who space properly. Marth might actually find it ok at times to trade damage because he can still KO early, so the opponent, even at equal (and smaller) percents is "closer to death" than Marth is. Lucina does not have that luxury since her damage and launch power is consistent, so she will have to be more careful with how much percents she allows her opponent to have and will need to wait longer for her KOs.

EDIT: On that note, I guess this would kind of also explain why Roy was so much worse than Marth. He got a moveset designed for spacing but rewarded getting into it's range instead of being able to properly take advantage of spacing people (since he'd be punished instead).

edited 16th Oct '14 11:08:41 AM by Folt

Fantastic Supreme Überkaiser Emperor Folt of The Infinity and Beyond" ... "The First"!
TechPowah Just a simple hero from the room down the hall Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Just a simple hero
#61341: Oct 16th 2014 at 10:50:17 AM

^^ How can I when Pokemon Trainer is gone? tongue

Ugh, cursed New 3DS, if you weren't revealed before Smash 3D came out, I might be playing it by now.

edited 16th Oct '14 10:51:16 AM by TechPowah

The New Age of Awesome is here! Not even the sky is the limit!
the8thdigidestined Digimon is coming back! from Odaiba *Wii U Handle: Lyokonerd* Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
Digimon is coming back!
#61342: Oct 16th 2014 at 10:56:54 AM

[up][up][up]Definitely like it better than Brawl!

Also you have to remember that the 3DS can actually update now too. So I bet it's possible that if the game really is as unfairly defensive as you say, it's very possible for Sakurai to go in and fix it. So I agree with just giving the game time.

Super hype for that Direct if it's happening!

edited 16th Oct '14 10:57:21 AM by the8thdigidestined

Even with these awkward wings, dyed with images that seem to stay. I'm sure we can fly, on my love! 3DS Friend Code: 2809-9138-8756
Tarsen Since: Dec, 2009
#61343: Oct 16th 2014 at 10:58:51 AM

well its possible yes...if he's willing to fix it.

RavenKingSage MY NAME IS GUNDHAM TANAKA Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: The Skitty to my Wailord
the8thdigidestined Digimon is coming back! from Odaiba *Wii U Handle: Lyokonerd* Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
Digimon is coming back!
#61345: Oct 16th 2014 at 11:08:38 AM

[up]Oh come on! Just because I murder millions of innocents doesn't mean I'm unable to be calm and rational about this, unless you have a problem with it.

Do you have a problem with it?

Pikachu had a problem with it.

Even with these awkward wings, dyed with images that seem to stay. I'm sure we can fly, on my love! 3DS Friend Code: 2809-9138-8756
GaryCXJk Wants Captain N for SSBU Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Wants Captain N for SSBU
#61346: Oct 16th 2014 at 11:48:44 AM

Okay, not to sound like a dick, but is this why the competitive scene is regarded as insufferable? I just want to play the game however I like.

And, here's the real situation. Despite Ultra Street Fighter IV being out, we still have Street Fighter Alpha tournaments. If you really dislike Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS in regards to competative gaming, why not just go back to Melee or Brawl / Project M? And I'm not saying this in a condescending way, but I'm just saying, these competitive scenes are going nowhere, they'll always exist, and they're pretty fine games.

The Smash competitive scene can do without For if it really has to, and yes, we do want it to be viable in tournaments, but we always still have the next game, not to mention balance patches. I mean, we're not dealing with just Sakurai or Sora, we still have Bandai Namco, they could take some load off Sakurai in regards to balancing.

Signatures are for lamers.
BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#61347: Oct 16th 2014 at 12:00:18 PM

[up]Simply put, it's because Melee and P:Mnote  are seriously starting to show their age. It would frankly be a tragedy if 4 wound up being boring enough to abandon like Brawl was.

And I don't think Sakurai would go so far as to patch the entire physics engine. Balance isn't the issue here.

And thirdly, you mention "the next game"; I honestly don't see a next game in the future. Or at the very least, even if there will be one, I'll be one foot in the grave by the time it's announced, so what good will it do?

edited 16th Oct '14 12:12:42 PM by BaffleBlend

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
stevebat Since: Nov, 2009
#61348: Oct 16th 2014 at 12:08:25 PM

Let me distract for a moment to point out that Jungle Japes is a horrible stage for horrible people.

And I love it to death.

Apocalypse: Dirge Of Swans.
GaryCXJk Wants Captain N for SSBU Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Wants Captain N for SSBU
#61349: Oct 16th 2014 at 12:10:17 PM

Meh, I didn't really like it, not even in Melee. Too little space to jump around.

Signatures are for lamers.
Sterok Since: Apr, 2012
#61350: Oct 16th 2014 at 12:13:29 PM

Well, I'm ready for some 1 v 1. Who's up for it?


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