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Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#60951: Oct 12th 2014 at 7:33:41 AM

Yeah, it sounds like he wanted Brawl to not be fast/complex to the point of being exclusionary.

Tripping was a definite mistake, so it's good that it's gone now.

I have a message from another time...
Numbuh1234 Since: Apr, 2014
#60952: Oct 12th 2014 at 7:42:43 AM

The "large/wide but deep" is utmost, so I'd like to go in a direction where both new players and maniac players can be accepting of the game.

I want to point this bit out, because he uses the maniac word again, but now he's saying that the 'maniac' players can enjoy the game along with new players. I'm getting the feeling that either the word's mistranslated/translated without context, or that 'maniac' is an accepted way to describe the hardcore audience in Japan. I'm assuming the former for now.

edited 13th Oct '14 12:13:39 AM by Numbuh1234

BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#60953: Oct 12th 2014 at 7:47:01 AM

[up] I guess I'm not sure what to think, old cynic as I am.

By the way:

[[quoteblock]]This is the quote markup.[[/quoteblock]]

This is the quote markup.

edited 12th Oct '14 7:47:22 AM by BaffleBlend

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
Fawriel Since: Jan, 2001
#60954: Oct 12th 2014 at 7:50:53 AM

I think the word that was translated as "maniac" was probably the loan word "mania". Which doesn't have quite the strong connotations it does on our end.

Customer Since: Sep, 2009
#60955: Oct 12th 2014 at 7:51:40 AM

[...]or that 'maniac' is an accepted way to describe the hardcore audience in Japan.
That's possible. That sort of reminds me of the Hex/Occult Maniacs in the Pokemon series: they aren't (usually) depicted as "crazed" or "insane" or "other negative connotation" (despite how X & Y's Maniacs look and what some of them say), just really into their particular hobby.

Got all of Mega Man's custom moves. I'm glad the game tells you when you do that. Now I know that I don't need to constantly check their Customization menu to see if I got them all.

edited 12th Oct '14 7:52:34 AM by Customer

Nap1100 Since: Mar, 2012
#60956: Oct 12th 2014 at 7:53:03 AM

The big problem I have with the stuff he says in that interview is that he thinks what makes Melee competitive is all the advanced techniques and glitches. It's not. It's the fact that it's the most balanced mechanics-wise and didn't have stupid things like tripping, really high blast zones for every stage, and zero blockstun. I wish he'd see that and adjust 4 so it could be considered for more tournaments without everyone shouting "NO THIS SUCKS GO BACK TO MELEE".

doctrainAUM White Hindu from New Jersey Since: Aug, 2010
White Hindu
#60957: Oct 12th 2014 at 7:55:02 AM

@Baffle: I disliked the Event Matches in Melee as I found them waaay too difficult. I also had trouble adjusting to the worse recoveries, mostly in that you have to face the edge to grab it, which is one area that Melee fans say is superior to Brawl. But those are only sorta related to the complexity of the game, I think.

"What's out there? What's waiting for me?"
WackyPancake from My computer. Since: May, 2011
#60958: Oct 12th 2014 at 7:56:19 AM

[up][up]Honestly? Half the fanbase would still probably say "NO THIS SUCKS GO BACK TO MELEE".

Also, I don't think Sakurai was using "maniac" as insult, just as an affectionate(?) term for hardcore Smash players.

edited 12th Oct '14 7:57:35 AM by WackyPancake

"I like girls, but now, it's about justice."
Nap1100 Since: Mar, 2012
#60959: Oct 12th 2014 at 7:59:36 AM

Yeah, the competitive wannabes. I've met a bunch of legitimately good players being cautiously optimistic before launch and a lot of them jumped ship because of those stupid things. Don't generalize.

BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#60960: Oct 12th 2014 at 8:02:48 AM

Anyway, I do like Smash 4, and I do hope it has decent longevity instead of floundering at the top for a short time and then dying like Brawl did. But there's no way to tell if that will happen yet.

I'm glad Autocancelling is in a lot of aerial moves now, anyway. Despite being competitive, L-cancelling was horriblenote  and I'm glad something more practical to reduce landing lag took its place.

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#60961: Oct 12th 2014 at 8:11:06 AM

It *is* an acceptable way to describe hardcore in Japan. Thus you'll often get "maniac" difficulty.

My own, admittedly equally myopic, view of Smash Bros is diametrically opposed to the Orthodoxy of the "Stop Having Fun" Guys, so i'll admit to a fair bit of happy Schadenfreude at first, and later resentment when things like Brawl+ and Project M came into existence (where otherwise i'd be pleased to see such a dedicated community).

And to think it all stems from arguments with irl friends over how to play Melee. One would think i would have gotten over it more than a decade later...

FullMoon feeling blue from Surface Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
feeling blue
#60962: Oct 12th 2014 at 8:15:01 AM

I don't see the problem with high blast zones, if it really takes long to KO people, just do what For Glory did and do tournament matches with only 2 lives. Besides I've had plenty of times where I KO'd someone that was on what, 90%? With Greninja even, I don't think his moves have much knockback.

BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#60963: Oct 12th 2014 at 8:16:32 AM

[up][up]The problem's with your friends there, in that case. I try to hold back against less skilled players in a casual environment rather than shoving my own playstyle onto everyonenote 

Of course, there are some things that I just won't tolerate, like the Wily's Castle stage (the only stage in the entire series so far to make me have this reaction). But that's the exception, not the rule.

[up]There's other problems with a 2-stock ruleset, which is why it's such a hot topic right now.

edited 12th Oct '14 8:20:24 AM by BaffleBlend

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
doctrainAUM White Hindu from New Jersey Since: Aug, 2010
White Hindu
#60964: Oct 12th 2014 at 8:23:17 AM

I used to die all the time as Jigglypuff because I would forget what her Up-B was. For some reason, I didn't have this problem with Yoshi. Maybe I was just more familiar with him.

"What's out there? What's waiting for me?"
FullMoon feeling blue from Surface Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
feeling blue
#60965: Oct 12th 2014 at 8:25:18 AM

I don't see any problems with the 2 stock ruleset.

BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#60966: Oct 12th 2014 at 8:31:09 AM

[up]For one thing, it makes comebacks from mistakes harder, which is dangerous because the emerging meta has a decent emphasis on offstage play and risk-taking right now. Take away the incentive to take risks, and you add incentive to play defensively, damning the metagame to the same fate as Brawl's.

I feel so dirty being forced to Parachute-stall and ledge-stall... *shudder*

edited 12th Oct '14 8:40:31 AM by BaffleBlend

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#60967: Oct 12th 2014 at 8:35:04 AM

When it's really hard to KO, two stocks is actually a fairly good move. You can still make a comeback with two of 'em. You can't with one.

I find it fine, honestly. It works well for Brawl, but not other games.

Shadow?
Folt Warlock Necromancer from Hollow Bastion! >=D Since: Jun, 2010
Warlock Necromancer
#60968: Oct 12th 2014 at 8:38:04 AM

You know what would be funny? If Wii U's All-Star Mode fights operates the same as 3DS's does, but in reverse order (so you fight Greninja first and finish it off with Mr. Game & Watch).

Fantastic Supreme Überkaiser Emperor Folt of The Infinity and Beyond" ... "The First"!
MightyKombat I am he as you are he as you are me and we are a from in mai mouffff (Ten years in the joint)
I am he as you are he as you are me and we are a
#60969: Oct 12th 2014 at 8:42:42 AM

All Star Hard should add the bosses too, like midway through the 94-98 bit you get Master Hand, then Crazy Hand and Giga Bowser in the early 2000s bit and at the end in 2014, Master Core in some fashion.

Are explosions science?
ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#60970: Oct 12th 2014 at 8:43:15 AM

So, I have come to the conclusion that the most infuriating attack in the game is Master Hand's Card-Platform-Thingy

Kills me way too often.

MightyKombat I am he as you are he as you are me and we are a from in mai mouffff (Ten years in the joint)
I am he as you are he as you are me and we are a
#60971: Oct 12th 2014 at 8:44:30 AM

I found that easy to manage though.

The two hands' Tennis Ball toss can go fuck itself tho.

Are explosions science?
BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#60972: Oct 12th 2014 at 8:50:45 AM

[up][up][up][up]So he'd be the Final Boss just like he was in Melee? I'd like that. He and his species are, after all, a lot more important to the series than they come off as, being the always-final character in Melee, and responsible for the creation of the Substance Army and possibly Master Core.

edited 12th Oct '14 8:51:28 AM by BaffleBlend

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
Folt Warlock Necromancer from Hollow Bastion! >=D Since: Jun, 2010
Warlock Necromancer
#60973: Oct 12th 2014 at 8:52:15 AM

Alright, we've found one more thing that differentiates Lucina from Marth besides her lack of tipper (and slightly shorter stature):

She has slightly lower vertical reach as well because she's a little shorter. What this means is that she can't hit certain characters from the Battlefield's platforms (and likely other stages with platforms that close to each other) unlike Marth.

Fantastic Supreme Überkaiser Emperor Folt of The Infinity and Beyond" ... "The First"!
BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#60974: Oct 12th 2014 at 8:55:18 AM

[up]Oh goody. I didn't think the slight height difference would mean anything, but anything that makes her playstyle different from Marth's is a good thing.

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
RavenKingSage MY NAME IS GUNDHAM TANAKA Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: The Skitty to my Wailord
MY NAME IS GUNDHAM TANAKA
#60975: Oct 12th 2014 at 9:11:11 AM

Japanese games sometimes name the highest difficulty setting Maniac mode, so I'm pretty sure it's an acceptable term to use in reference to highly dedicated players.

What is a fandom? A miserable little pile of flame wars! 3DS FC: 0387-9377-7408 PSN ID: Raven King Sage

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